Can X51 Plenum & Intake manifolds be retro-fitted to 997.1?
Can X51 Plenum & Intake manifolds be retro-fitted to 997.1?
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Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,572 posts

237 months

Monday 3rd December 2012
quotequote all
Hi there


First things first I have a 2006 C2S and it already has X51 manifolds, PSE, Centre Radiator kit, X51 undertrays etc.

I now want to add:-
X51 Intake manifolds
X51 plenum
X51 Throttlebody
X51 carbon intake
Other stuff required, sleeves, hoses, tank vent hose etc.

This will give me pretty much the full kit all I shall be missing is the cylinder heads which are pointless as Porsche did so little to them and changing these turn a 4-6hr job into one two to three times longer, making it a lot more expensive.

I can do the above for about $4500 cost in parts and can do the installation myself, as I am capable with such stuff.

But when I look at images of the X51 intake design and standard I see a problem, check these images:-


[size=5]Stock Engine Varioram design[/size]






[size=5]X51 Engine - Varioram deleted[/size]










[size=5]My Questions[/size]
So this question is to those out there who know how these engines work:-

1. Would installing the X51 plenum/Intake manifolds throw a CEL/Check engine light as its essentially deleting the Varioram, as I believe the stock none X51 design has butterflies/secondary plenum to help torque, wheras the X51 design deletes this. Can anyone confirm this or will it all run OK on the stock map without any check lights?

Obviously getting the X51 map would be ideal to get maximum potential from the added components.

2. Is any modification to the DME/Pins required if installing the above, I've looked at the X51 installation guide and not come across anything, but I don't know the ins and outs of how these engines work. Here is the installation PDF if anyone wants to download and view it:-
http://freepdfhosting.com/79289d48bf.pdf



If anyone knows the answers to my questions or can put me in touch with someone who has done this or knows what is required it would be hugely appreciated, if its a case of it will no way run on the stock map without throwing CEL's then I need to see if Porsche would be willing to load my car with the X51 map for a free or a fair charge. I am buying the parts from US and Germany as they are vastly cheaper than buying from UK. Shame the UK is so expensive really, its crazy I can buy it from the USA and Germany and its more than half the UK price even after adding shipping / taxes.

Thanks in advance smile

P.S. I could just get an IPD competition plenum/GT3 throttlebody as many are running this on stock map without issue, but that is goodbye warranty! Its also obvious the X51 plenum and intake manifolds are a big factor in the improved horsepower. I've asked Porsche the above questions and they are unsure is the answer. Obviously someone will know its just asking the person knows.......

Mankers

669 posts

199 months

Monday 3rd December 2012
quotequote all
Sounds like an interesting project. But it begs the question, why go to all that trouble and expense for such a minimal gain? Even with the full X51 what would the gain be 25-30bhp? I am really amazed how Porsche can charge such a premium for all the components that make up the X51. I wonder what percentage of owners specced it from new, cant be more than 5%.

Have you explored any other routes to more power?

X51 996 Ownersmile

STiG911

1,210 posts

197 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
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There's a number of points here, but reading the installation guide, one thing jumps out, and that's 'If engine has covered more than 25,000 miles, crankshaft and con-rod bearings must be replaced' AND replace the con-rods if excessive wear is found; suggesting that an engine strip-down and inspection is a mandatory part of the installation process.
This is clearly due to the extra stress the engine will be under in order to generate the extra power.
Another point I'm fairly sure of is this conversion wouldn't be effective without the cylinder heads, as they are 'flow optimised' which would explain why the X51 inlet manifold doesn't have VarioRam - also the exhaust valves are bigger, which contribute to the higher rev limit necessary to achieve the power output that the X51 kit provides.

All in all, this may be a step too far both in terms of cost and the age of your engine. Nice idea, but I wouldn't risk it.

MadMark911

1,755 posts

179 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
quotequote all
Interesting question and I did wonder about doing this myself at one point, but didn't they also run different cams as well? scratchchin


STiG911

1,210 posts

197 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
quotequote all
MadMark911 said:
Interesting question and I did wonder about doing this myself at one point, but didn't they also run different cams as well? scratchchin
Nope - only the cylinder heads are new, the entire valve train is swapped over.

RadiusTim

14 posts

197 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
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Q: Would installing the X51 plenum/Intake manifolds throw a CEL/Check engine light ?

A: No. You can just leave the manifold and airbox actuator solenoids electrically connected, but even if you disconnected them it wouldn't generate any DME errors.

Q: Is any modification to the DME/Pins required if installing the above ?

A: No. To do the conversion by the book, you re-assign the manifold control solenoid as the PSE solenoid (see the installation manual), but this is not necessary. If nothing else, the correct X51 DME program is needed to raise the rev limiter to 7450rpm, but the engine will run fine without it regardless of intake modifications.

Swapping the intake system is a simple enough job with the engine in the car -

- remove airbox, hose, and throttle body
- remove drive belt
- remove alternator
- remove oil filler neck
- siphon off power steering fluid and remove reservoir
- remove AC compressor and set to one side (no need to disconnect fluid lines)
- remove plenum and rear connecting tube
- remove LH and RH intake manifolds
- remove remove tank vent line

At this point it's advisable to renew alternator/starter cable and air/oil separator, if they've not been done already.

- fit X51 LH and RH manifolds
- fit X51 tank vent line and AOS-plenum hose
- re-route vacuum lines so only PSE solenoid is connected to vacuum
- fit X51 oil filler neck
- fit X51 plenum
- refit power steering fluid reservoir and refill
- refit alternator and AC compressor
- fit X51 throttle body
- fit X51 airbox and hose
- mark and cut decklid, fit cowl


I have a 997.1 C2S with X51 powerkit. I've done pretty much all the above steps myself, mostly to renew the oil separator and cable harness.

Technically what you're proposing will work fine, so if you've set your heart on it then by all means go for it.

That said, and I guess you've thought through all of this, I'd add a few well-meaning notes of caution -

Any extra torque and power from the 997.1 X51 powerkit happens between 5500 and 7400 RPM only. Everywhere else in the rev range the X51 motor behaves just the same as the standard M97 (there's a little hump at 2000 RPM, but that's right in the bore-scoring zone). It's nice if your car comes with this as mine did, but it'll only ever be a halfway-house to (and a pale imitation of) any GT3.

Even on paper, the full 997.1 powerkit gives 7.5% more power, which at best amounts to a second or two off the 0-125mph time in a straight line drag race. So it's debatable whether you'd get you money's worth, even for just the partial retrofit.

About the Porsche warranty: even with the correct X51 ECU map I'd be skeptical about this holding up to a big claim - I suspect the policy underwriters would do anything possible to wriggle out of paying, and whatever your OPC or anyone else might say now, a partial X51 installation would surely give them grounds to do just that.

Good luck with it, whatever you decide!



Edited by RadiusTim on Tuesday 4th December 20:41

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,572 posts

237 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
quotequote all
RadiusTim][footnote]Edited by RadiusTim on Tuesday 4th December 20:37[/footnote said:
Tim

A shall give this a thorough reading. But in short a big thank you.

Its good to know I can run the none X51 map and not get any running/DME errors. So did your car come from the factory as an X51 or have you done the same, as in add the parts to make your car X51 spec?

On the warranty front, I have it in black and white, I can add these parts or a mixture of them with no ill effect to my warranty, hell they even put in writing I could fit MPSS none N-Spec tyres, I've made a few claims with no issues. smile

All I would be missing after doing the above would be the cylinder heads, but general consenus is Porsche did very little to the head that would give greater performance, apart from the exhaust valve spring being stronger to support the new 7450rpm which on my standard map I'd not be going above 7300rpm anyway. From what I've read and researched the heads are responsible for 3-5BHP maximum, the biggest gains come from the throttlebody/plenum/intakes combo, then the carbon airbox, followed by heads and exhaust manifolds (I have the exhaust manifolds).

I love my car, no intentions of changing it yet so am happy to spend some more on it and carry on enjoying it.

If you could just 110% re-assure I shall be fine on the stock map (None X51) would be great as some people (who have not tried this) believed it would cause errors as the DME would expect the varioram to be there and when it detected nothing would throw an error or limp home mode, but like I say they are people who have not actually tried it and just making assumptions.

RadiusTim

14 posts

197 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
quotequote all
Gibbo,

No worries, glad to help.

When I bought it 4 years ago my car had the X51 powerkit already, but not from the factory. I bought the car from an OPC, but it wasn't until a few months later that I got in touch with the first owner, who told me he'd had the X51 and SSK retro-fitted by a different OPC. This was a full engine-out job to enable fitting of the new cylinder heads.

I've since done a fair bit of research into the subject, and also some work on the solenoid wiring to 'complete' the retrofit fully according to the manual.

Hence I can assure you that you can fit all intake parts and it'll run fine with or without the X51 map.

You can easily prove this for yourself any time: just remove the plugs from the manifold resonance actuator solenoid and then go for a blast and check for any error codes. You won't see any.

But if in any doubt at all you can still happily do the full intake upgrade anyway, just leave all the solenoids connected electrically (but remove the vacuum lines and keep only the vacuum line direct to the PSE solenoid).

The resonance actuator solenoid that you're concerned about is on left side of engine between coolant header tank and intake manifold. This is what opens and closes the flap to control air flow through the connecting tube in the standard Carrera S plenum setup.

The Porsche terminology for this is 'two-stage resonance intake system.' Strictly speaking it's not varioram at all, it's actually a much simpler 'on-off' system, which is open-ended (meaning there's nothing anywhere else in the engine management system that monitors whether it's actually working or not in terms of airflow). Hence there's no technical reason why you'd upset the DME by fitting the X51 intake manifold, especially if you leave the solenoid connected to the DME so it presents the expected electrical load.

The 997.1 X51 plenum design is based on the 996 GT3 plenum, just as the 997.1 X51 headers are based on the 996 GT3 headers (but with different flanges).

And about the 997.1 X51 cylinder heads: the exhaust valves are different (same size but stronger material) but not the springs, just the valves - and that really is about it. Maybe the ports are reworked/polished, maybe not.


I can well understand that you want to hold on to your car, I've had mine 4 years and spent a fair bit on it so I'm no different. I keep thinking I'll do the sensible thing and sell it but end up talking myself into holding on to it and spending a bit more on fettling it up.

As long as you're happy you've got the warranty covered, and you can get the parts (especially the X51 airbox) for a decent price, I'd definitely go for it. If you sell your car you can always put it back to stock and sell the X51 parts on separately.

As an alternative approach, I've lived without a warranty for 3 years and 15,000-odd miles, and so far I've been very lucky not to have any issues, so in that time I've been able to tinker with my car a fair bit. If anyone's interested I can post the details separately.

Cheers


Edited by RadiusTim on Tuesday 4th December 23:08

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,572 posts

237 months

Tuesday 4th December 2012
quotequote all
Hi Tim

Thanks for the in depth reply. smile

Do you know why Porsche run that system in the first place, is it for noise reduction? On my stock air box I removed the hermontz resonator and capped it. Car sounds far better!

If I disconnect what you speak off will it leave this valve always open for maximum noise or will it e always shut as it could be a nice easy to do no cost mod for more noise, a bit like the PSE unplug mod so PSE is loud always. smile

Here is the list of parts I *think* I need to do what I want:-
Intake Manifolds: #997.110.115.40 X2
Throttle Body: #997.605.116.01  
Distributor Pipe/plenum: 997.110.416.40
Rubber Sleeve: 997.110.685.40 X2  
Hose Clamp: 997.512.694.00 X4  
Electric Line (tank vent line extension): 997.607.130.00 
Tank Vent Line Support: 997.110.429.40
Support for throttle body: 997.110.423.40
Support: 997.110.433.40  
Tank ventline including Valve: 997.110.129.40
Tank Ventline: 997.110.127.40  
6x intake manifold gaskets 997-110-247-00
seal for the throttlebody 1x 997-110-319-40
997.110.252.00 sealing
Carbon air box
Air duct for air box
Cut out template
Hose from air box to throttle body
Maf wire extension
Oil filler pipe

Have I missed anything? Is there anything which I don't need as I've heard the maf extension and oil filler pipe are not required and old ones will be fine just not quite as neat?

Thanks
Gibbo

RadiusTim

14 posts

197 months

Wednesday 5th December 2012
quotequote all
Q: Do you know why Porsche run that system in the first place?
A: Yes, it's designed to improve the torque curve. It's only used on the S, not the 3.6.

Q: Is it for noise reduction?
A: No, the Helmholz resonator setup in the airbox is designed to reduce noise, but the tuning flap in the intake manifold is there to improve torque. The standard Carrera S manifolds also have built-in 'resonance chambers' to tune the sound above 5000rpm. The 997.1 X51 intake has none of this clever stuff.

Q: If I disconnect it will it leave this valve always open for maximum noise?
A: Always open, the system only closes the flap at full throttle between 2600 and 5100 rpm, but it's not about noise.

Q: ...a nice easy to do no cost mod for more noise?
A: No, best leave it connected with the original manifold/plenum. It's fine to disconnect it temporarily just to prove the point about the DME, but that's all.

Q: Have I missed anything?
A: As far as I can see, these -
4 x 900.385.125.1 longer bolts for throttle body
The parts list is on pages 4-5 of the X51 installation manual, you can just pick from that.
Some part numbers you missed -
Airbox assembly = 997.110.025.00 (includes filters and MAF sensor) or 997.110.925.0 (no MAF sensor)
Airbox-throttle body hose = 997.110.225.00
MAF sensor wiring extension = 997.612.906.00
Oil filler neck = 997.107.915.00

Also remember the advice about renewing the alternator-starter wiring harness while the intake is out. If the original part is still in place it'll definitely be worth replacing, the engine will start much more easily when hot. Part number is 997.607.019.03, about £70. The air-oil separator is also very easy to change at this point, 997.107.038.00, about £110 but well worth renewing while you're in there.

Q: Is there anything I don't need?
A: "Air duct for air box" - this is "997.110.252.00 sealing", you only need the one.
You should be able to re-use the six sealing rings from the original manifolds if you like.
The cutout templates are on pages 34-35 of the X51 installation manual, just print from there.

Q: I've heard the maf extension and oil filler pipe are not required and old ones will be fine just not quite as neat?
A: For 'not quite as neat' read 'looks like botched job' - it's your choice, but given the cost of the airbox and other major parts it's a totally false economy to skimp on these little ones.
The existing MAF cable will reach on the X51 airbox, but only just, and at a stretch. Likewise the existing oil filler neck will function but it won't clip into the X51 airbox properly so will flap about.

Now enough questions, just get it done :-)

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,572 posts

237 months

Saturday 8th December 2012
quotequote all
Hi m8

A big thanks, I've comprised a list of all the parts and shall order the following:-

2x 997.110.115.40 - Intake Manifolds
1x 997.605.116.01 - X51/GT3 throttlebody
1x 997.110.416.40 - X51 distributor pipe/plenum
1x 997.110.925.0 - Carbon airbox assembly with filters
1x 997.110.225.00 - Airbox too throttlebody hose
1x 997.612.906.00 - MAF sensor wiring extension
1x 997.107.915.00 - X51 oil filler neck
4x 900.385.125.1 - longer throttlebody bolts
1x 997.607.019.03 - alternator wiring
1x 997.107.038.00 - air/oil seperator
2x 997.110.685.40 - rubber sleave
4x 997.512.694.00 - Hose clamps
1x 997.607.130.00 - tank vent line extension
1x 997.110.429.40 - tank vent line support
1x 997.110.423.40 - throttlebody support
1x 997.110.433.40 - support
1x 997.110.129.40 - tank ventline including valve
1x 997.110.127.40 - tank ventline
6x 997.110.247.00 - manifold gaskets
1x 997.110.319.40 - throttlebody seal
1x 997.110.252.00 - airbox duct/sealing


Can you just double to check that I've not miseed anything please?

P.S. Do I need a new MAF or will my current MAF fit in the X51 airbox fine?

Edited by Gibbo205 on Saturday 8th December 16:34