993 c4 suspension set up for fast road use pot holes and all
Discussion
Hi chaps just bought a 1996 993 c4 who would you recommend to sort the suspennsion out for me? I'm not looking for track use just fast road use on the back lanes bumps and pot holes inc. I used Kim Collins at qs tuning for my S3 and it made so much differance but he does not do Porsches. Please advise thanks lads 
Violentbadger said:
Brentwood Essex don't mind a bit of a drive to get to the right place though
Matey I also live in Brentwood and last weekend picked my car up from TDI at Thurrock. I also previously had a 993C4 and spent way too much on a full suspension set up at CG in the midlands. As good as it was I got carried away.
Give them a call and ask for mark or Sam they will have it sorted for a fraction of what I paid on my 993.
Tell them I told u to call them they have just sorted my gt3
All the best
http://www.tdi-plc.com/index.php?pge=C_contactus
Unless you can find evidence of suspension work I'd be expecting to be replacing dampers and bushes on a >15 year old car in order to return it to optimum condition, not just a geo job.
Each of my cars is on fresh dampers, they really should be considered a service item at 60k miles/5 years or so.
SS7
Each of my cars is on fresh dampers, they really should be considered a service item at 60k miles/5 years or so.
SS7
i posted a couple of years ago on my suspension refresh by redline actually & this is what i said back then.....
cragswinter said:
Right, I’m no Steve Rance but I’ve had the car out again today & I thought I’d post up on a few new experiences with the car.
First of all, for those who don't know me, my car is a 993 C4 that had been nicely though somewhat strangely specced when new, MO30 special chassis, nice but different interior, RS body styling etc & its a MY98 so it gets the other goodies like the power brakes, Varioram etc.
So, my first 911 (first Porsche in fact) but the culmination of a lifelong dream.
I got the car in July & tentatively set about learning to drive the thing. Now, like I said I can't describe things maybe as eloquently as some who post on here but I’ll try me best! I didn't buy the car to track but seeing as I had a place on a Nurburgring track day & as I know the Northloop quite well I thought it would be a good place to start.
The car was in mint condition but I put some brand new P-Zeros on for the trip & away we went. Now for all those that haven't driven a 4wd it doesn't really make itself felt that much, you just get a bit more driveline shunt & a bit of drag when you're really pressing on. Perhaps it’s a shade less reluctant to turn in as well, though that could have been my driving style before i got used to it.
The Ring was pretty wet that day though we did get some dry laps & it was all going pretty well (Though my Dad later said at no point did he ever feel safe in the passenger seat, even though he's sat through loads of sub 8:30 laps in my old cars), a couple of moments but hey that’s learning isn't it!?
Two near spins when it was damp did have me puzzled though, the first was at Adenauer Forst (the second part-the right hander) then again a couple of laps later at Ex-Muhle, and I’ve never got it wrong there before. Both corners are a transition from left to right so i was obviously unsettling the car in some way. What I did find was the relative ease in which the slide was controlled (though the fact that these are two of the slowest corners on the loop probably helped just a little!) with a simple winding on of opposite lock and a boot full of gas. I guess the viscous diff helps pull you through in the 4wd but I’ve always been taught about the importance of weight transfer when pushing on and especially in the 911 it's at the front of your mind!
So the last 6 months have progressed probably as most other owners, gradually trying to figure the car out, but I don't mind admitting it I couldn't get it to work. It always felt like the front to rear centre of gravity was somewhere behind the front seats, with me & the front wheels bouncing along on one end of the seesaw. Everyone always said about how much a 911 wheel talks to you as you drive but perhaps the 4wd versions were a bit mute? Trail braking did help as suggested by the guys in the know but I always felt you were on the edge so to speak, & what if you needed a little squeeze of brake more? How much would that upset the car mid bend? The fact was I was happy with the car (& I do love the thing) I just figured that it wasn't suited to my style of driving & just get on with enjoying owning the thing.
So long story short I fitted new suspension! I wanted the car at RS ride height and I figured if I was going in there why not do the job properly & refresh the whole thing. I won't lie budget & aesthetics dictated what i used (there was a large contingency fund for replacing the top mounts & any bushes-these things mount up) so I went with Gerts extra thread HDs with H&R pink springs. I’d heard good things about Redline Racing so they got the job of fitting the new kit & deciding what would need replacing on the consumables side. When we got onto the subject of geo set up & corner weighting I described how I drove the car & what a thought of it. The best description of what they were going to do was this
"Imagine the car on huge soft off road springs. Now imagine where you want the weight to balance and what you want to happen under braking, acceleration, cornering etc"
On getting the car back it all felt very nice, tram-lined a bit more but not crashy or overly hard (and it is very low!), but what with the weather up here it hasn't left the garage until the last few days.
What a difference! It literally is like a different car. I’ve done a couple of hundred miles on B roads just getting a feel for it & it's superb. When you hear people going on about a car feeling planted that’s just what I’ve got, the damping on uneven roads is great, with the car kind of feeling like its sitting stable with the tyres & suspension soaking up all the imperfections. The front end now feels like its working in unison with the rear, & although the wheel moves around more in your hands it seems to just telegraph so much more information about what the front tyres are doing. on the old set up it almost felt as though the front & back ends were at odds with one another, as if the car was twisting in itself torsionally & you were waiting for it to unwind in a corner & buck itself off the road.
We took the car down to Kendal on Monday on the superb A6 which is full of fast flowing 3rd, 4th & even 5th gear corners & it was a blast. The best way I can describe it is it's as if the car has had a huge roll-cage welded in, the car just feels so much more solid & now the suspension is doing more of the work. the only time we were caught out was when I decided to down shift & extra gear just at the turn in of a corner & there was a deep rut across the width of the road, with only one hand on the wheel the car momentarily skipped as I struggled to hold the wheel-driver error I know!
So all in all I’m very happy with how it's turned out. The funny thing is in the history file there are loads of invoices down the years for alignments & the previous owner was particularly fastidious PCGB member, but it just wasn't set up right. The guys even said there was nothing wrong with the old dampers but on arriving at redline even just looking at it in the car park they said it was a mile out.
So, moral of the story, if like me you struggle with your car get it to someone who knows their 911s, even if you’re not you never know what a difference a proper set up can do for you.
Craig
First of all, for those who don't know me, my car is a 993 C4 that had been nicely though somewhat strangely specced when new, MO30 special chassis, nice but different interior, RS body styling etc & its a MY98 so it gets the other goodies like the power brakes, Varioram etc.
So, my first 911 (first Porsche in fact) but the culmination of a lifelong dream.
I got the car in July & tentatively set about learning to drive the thing. Now, like I said I can't describe things maybe as eloquently as some who post on here but I’ll try me best! I didn't buy the car to track but seeing as I had a place on a Nurburgring track day & as I know the Northloop quite well I thought it would be a good place to start.
The car was in mint condition but I put some brand new P-Zeros on for the trip & away we went. Now for all those that haven't driven a 4wd it doesn't really make itself felt that much, you just get a bit more driveline shunt & a bit of drag when you're really pressing on. Perhaps it’s a shade less reluctant to turn in as well, though that could have been my driving style before i got used to it.
The Ring was pretty wet that day though we did get some dry laps & it was all going pretty well (Though my Dad later said at no point did he ever feel safe in the passenger seat, even though he's sat through loads of sub 8:30 laps in my old cars), a couple of moments but hey that’s learning isn't it!?
Two near spins when it was damp did have me puzzled though, the first was at Adenauer Forst (the second part-the right hander) then again a couple of laps later at Ex-Muhle, and I’ve never got it wrong there before. Both corners are a transition from left to right so i was obviously unsettling the car in some way. What I did find was the relative ease in which the slide was controlled (though the fact that these are two of the slowest corners on the loop probably helped just a little!) with a simple winding on of opposite lock and a boot full of gas. I guess the viscous diff helps pull you through in the 4wd but I’ve always been taught about the importance of weight transfer when pushing on and especially in the 911 it's at the front of your mind!
So the last 6 months have progressed probably as most other owners, gradually trying to figure the car out, but I don't mind admitting it I couldn't get it to work. It always felt like the front to rear centre of gravity was somewhere behind the front seats, with me & the front wheels bouncing along on one end of the seesaw. Everyone always said about how much a 911 wheel talks to you as you drive but perhaps the 4wd versions were a bit mute? Trail braking did help as suggested by the guys in the know but I always felt you were on the edge so to speak, & what if you needed a little squeeze of brake more? How much would that upset the car mid bend? The fact was I was happy with the car (& I do love the thing) I just figured that it wasn't suited to my style of driving & just get on with enjoying owning the thing.
So long story short I fitted new suspension! I wanted the car at RS ride height and I figured if I was going in there why not do the job properly & refresh the whole thing. I won't lie budget & aesthetics dictated what i used (there was a large contingency fund for replacing the top mounts & any bushes-these things mount up) so I went with Gerts extra thread HDs with H&R pink springs. I’d heard good things about Redline Racing so they got the job of fitting the new kit & deciding what would need replacing on the consumables side. When we got onto the subject of geo set up & corner weighting I described how I drove the car & what a thought of it. The best description of what they were going to do was this
"Imagine the car on huge soft off road springs. Now imagine where you want the weight to balance and what you want to happen under braking, acceleration, cornering etc"
On getting the car back it all felt very nice, tram-lined a bit more but not crashy or overly hard (and it is very low!), but what with the weather up here it hasn't left the garage until the last few days.
What a difference! It literally is like a different car. I’ve done a couple of hundred miles on B roads just getting a feel for it & it's superb. When you hear people going on about a car feeling planted that’s just what I’ve got, the damping on uneven roads is great, with the car kind of feeling like its sitting stable with the tyres & suspension soaking up all the imperfections. The front end now feels like its working in unison with the rear, & although the wheel moves around more in your hands it seems to just telegraph so much more information about what the front tyres are doing. on the old set up it almost felt as though the front & back ends were at odds with one another, as if the car was twisting in itself torsionally & you were waiting for it to unwind in a corner & buck itself off the road.
We took the car down to Kendal on Monday on the superb A6 which is full of fast flowing 3rd, 4th & even 5th gear corners & it was a blast. The best way I can describe it is it's as if the car has had a huge roll-cage welded in, the car just feels so much more solid & now the suspension is doing more of the work. the only time we were caught out was when I decided to down shift & extra gear just at the turn in of a corner & there was a deep rut across the width of the road, with only one hand on the wheel the car momentarily skipped as I struggled to hold the wheel-driver error I know!
So all in all I’m very happy with how it's turned out. The funny thing is in the history file there are loads of invoices down the years for alignments & the previous owner was particularly fastidious PCGB member, but it just wasn't set up right. The guys even said there was nothing wrong with the old dampers but on arriving at redline even just looking at it in the car park they said it was a mile out.
So, moral of the story, if like me you struggle with your car get it to someone who knows their 911s, even if you’re not you never know what a difference a proper set up can do for you.
Craig
Thanks for all your input guys. I would like to take it to someone who just knows instantly what to do for a fast road going C4 suspension set up, had a chat with TDI seemed very professional but they have never done a 993 before. chatting to the guy there Mark he seemed happy to take the time to get it right but would like to find a coup;e of others to talk to before I make a decision.
If you're in Brentwood will you be taking it to Autostrasse in Coggeshall for servicing, they're the most well known Indie round here?
I wouldn't say they're suspension 'gurus' as per CoG for example but I know they've done suspension work for some other 993 owners on 911uk.com - or get yourself over there and ask the question - a very helpful & friendly place.
Cheers
I wouldn't say they're suspension 'gurus' as per CoG for example but I know they've done suspension work for some other 993 owners on 911uk.com - or get yourself over there and ask the question - a very helpful & friendly place.
Cheers
Violentbadger said:
What is KT equipment
KT = Kinematic ToeIt's comparable to caster, but then for the rear axle.
No alignment equipment can measure this. Hence the need for a special tool as it is very important on the 993.
A wrong KT gives a strange handling, an unsettled feeling and high wear of the rear tires.
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