First Porsche: 997.2 C2S vs C4S?
Discussion
I'm going through what I suspect is a not atypical dilemma - looking at a 997.2 C2S vs C4S. I've so far driven a C4 GTS and a C2S (but not unfortunately back-to-back). Both felt fabulous - the 4 a tad more planted (perhaps - conditions were dry and I wasn't pushing particularly hard in either). Test drives have so far confirmed for me that a) I love the 911 - came back from both drives with massive grin & feeling that although it's very easy to drive, it will really reward learning how to drive it properly over an extended period of time - something that many modern cars seem to have lost and b) that I prefer the involvement of a manual box to a PDK. So far, so good. Now for context: I live at the end of a dirt track in the Highlands - as a matter of course we keep winter wheels/tyres for all our cars and they make far more difference in the snow than 4WD (on winter tyres, the main usability advantage our X5 has over our 123D is ground clearance, whereas the 123D on summer tyres is undriveable). Lots of generally wet weather though and fabulous local roads, so C2S vs C4S is the big question - would I really see much of an all-weather advantage at public road speeds from the 4S? Trade-off of course is £5-6k difference in price for otherwise equivalent cars, less availability of the 4S and something of a reduction in luggage space on the 4S.
Second question: I've seen a couple of cars with PCCB - don't need it but wouldn't mind having it for durability. Big worry is that, living on a dirt track, would the PCCBs be particularly and expensively vulnerable to stones, dirt & grit?
Third question: Is it worth holding out for the adaptive sports seats over the base sports seats? The cars I've driven so far have felt v comfortable but I have a slightly dodgy lower back and am wondering how I'd be over a long day (X5 vv comfortable on 800 mile day but 1 series M Sport gives me back pain after 200 miles or so).
Most of my driving is twisty highland roads, some motorway work, the odd blast to the Alps and very definitely all weather, plus the very occasional track day (typically playing the disreputable hooligan on IAM 'Skills' days).
Local OPCs (Glasgow and Edinburgh) are being very helpful - they just don't have that big a stock for me to be able to try the cars back-to-back.
V grateful for thoughts on this.
Richard
Second question: I've seen a couple of cars with PCCB - don't need it but wouldn't mind having it for durability. Big worry is that, living on a dirt track, would the PCCBs be particularly and expensively vulnerable to stones, dirt & grit?
Third question: Is it worth holding out for the adaptive sports seats over the base sports seats? The cars I've driven so far have felt v comfortable but I have a slightly dodgy lower back and am wondering how I'd be over a long day (X5 vv comfortable on 800 mile day but 1 series M Sport gives me back pain after 200 miles or so).
Most of my driving is twisty highland roads, some motorway work, the odd blast to the Alps and very definitely all weather, plus the very occasional track day (typically playing the disreputable hooligan on IAM 'Skills' days).
Local OPCs (Glasgow and Edinburgh) are being very helpful - they just don't have that big a stock for me to be able to try the cars back-to-back.
V grateful for thoughts on this.
Richard
Personally I prefer the 'feel' of the 2WD cars more, but I do like the 'fat arse' of the C4S looks wise - hence the GTS was perfect for me, as it gave me the best of both worlds.
I don't think 4WD will bring much to the table in deep snow, they are all shocking without winter tyres.
I am sure you wont be disappointed either way, but my money went on a manual GTS and, after 7 other 911s, I don't regret it one bit.
I don't think 4WD will bring much to the table in deep snow, they are all shocking without winter tyres.
I am sure you wont be disappointed either way, but my money went on a manual GTS and, after 7 other 911s, I don't regret it one bit.
Technomad said:
I'm going through what I suspect is a not atypical dilemma - looking at a 997.2 C2S vs C4S.
Evo's 997 C2S vs C4S videoIf you fit winter tyres then a C2S is an extremely capable car in the snow. I ran C2S in Switzerland for several years and with winter tyres I never encountered big issues. I even fit winter tyres to my GT3 and drive it all year around. It's the perfect car to drift in snow 
The C4S does not offer much advantage, given that the engine hangs out over the rear axle helping traction.
The C4S does not offer much advantage, given that the engine hangs out over the rear axle helping traction.
If you want the most comfortable seat (with the most adjustment options) - then the Adaptive Sport Seats are a superb choice.
Two features stand out for me - the ability to tilt the front edge of the seat (to provide more under thigh support) and the electric lumbar adjustment that moves the support up and down your spine as well as as well as in and out. No back ache for me, despite having spent 2.5hrs in the car on occasions!
As for C2/C4 - well I drove both when buying my 1st 911 and whilst I appreciated the stability and planted feel of the C4S, I chose the C2S as you could kick the back end out on slower corners and it felt more of a handful / challenge. But then I don't live up a dirt track .....
Two features stand out for me - the ability to tilt the front edge of the seat (to provide more under thigh support) and the electric lumbar adjustment that moves the support up and down your spine as well as as well as in and out. No back ache for me, despite having spent 2.5hrs in the car on occasions!
As for C2/C4 - well I drove both when buying my 1st 911 and whilst I appreciated the stability and planted feel of the C4S, I chose the C2S as you could kick the back end out on slower corners and it felt more of a handful / challenge. But then I don't live up a dirt track .....
I spend much of each winter in the Highlands, and normally live in the Pennines up a steep unadopted road. We get snowed in every year but my hobby is winter mountaineering/ice climbing so I'm always out in the hills when the weather is at its worst.
These last 3 winters, 2 of which you'll remember have been pretty serious, I've been in 2wd 911s shod with winter tyres. Not for one second have I wished I had 4wd. The traction is great with the rear engine, you can hang the end out to your heart's content in an empty snow-filled car park, and no hill is too steep with the right tyres.
2wd all the way.
These last 3 winters, 2 of which you'll remember have been pretty serious, I've been in 2wd 911s shod with winter tyres. Not for one second have I wished I had 4wd. The traction is great with the rear engine, you can hang the end out to your heart's content in an empty snow-filled car park, and no hill is too steep with the right tyres.
2wd all the way.
BnB said:
I spend much of each winter in the Highlands, and normally live in the Pennines up a steep unadopted road. We get snowed in every year but my hobby is winter mountaineering/ice climbing so I'm always out in the hills when the weather is at its worst.
These last 3 winters, 2 of which you'll remember have been pretty serious, I've been in 2wd 911s shod with winter tyres. Not for one second have I wished I had 4wd. The traction is great with the rear engine, you can hang the end out to your heart's content in an empty snow-filled car park, and no hill is too steep with the right tyres.
2wd all the way.
You're a braver man than I. Winter my C2S get's wrapped up warm. And the Defender and I slip and slide our way around the road network These last 3 winters, 2 of which you'll remember have been pretty serious, I've been in 2wd 911s shod with winter tyres. Not for one second have I wished I had 4wd. The traction is great with the rear engine, you can hang the end out to your heart's content in an empty snow-filled car park, and no hill is too steep with the right tyres.
2wd all the way.
Technomad said:
BnB - sounds like your attitude is very similar to mine - and I like the bigger boot of the C2S to get winter mountain gear into before heading North. Yes, I *could* use the 4x4, but - given the right car & tyres - I do enjoy snow driving. All helping me make my mind up...
Yes, the bigger boot makes a big difference. I had a GTS before my current car and the smaller (4wd package-based) boot was a pain. I don't like leaving kit lying on view in the car when I'm off in the hills.I tend to climb in Torridon, Glen Shiel and Skye, often stopping off in Glencoe or Fort William for a day out en route. How about you?
BnB said:
Yes, the bigger boot makes a big difference. I had a GTS before my current car and the smaller (4wd package-based) boot was a pain. I don't like leaving kit lying on view in the car when I'm off in the hills.
I tend to climb in Torridon, Glen Shiel and Skye, often stopping off in Glencoe or Fort William for a day out en route. How about you?
I'm more of a winter Munroist rather than full-on climber, but am thinking of doing a 'proper' winter mountaineering course this year - I've got Ben More, Stob Binnein, Ben Vorlich & Stùc a' Chroin within walking distance (just) of my house, so need to get out more this year! I love Torridon too - doing the triple buttress of Beinn Eighe from the corrie is one of my favourite ever walks.I tend to climb in Torridon, Glen Shiel and Skye, often stopping off in Glencoe or Fort William for a day out en route. How about you?
Richard
Technomad said:
I'm more of a winter Munroist rather than full-on climber, but am thinking of doing a 'proper' winter mountaineering course this year - I've got Ben More, Stob Binnein, Ben Vorlich & Stùc a' Chroin within walking distance (just) of my house, so need to get out more this year! I love Torridon too - doing the triple buttress of Beinn Eighe from the corrie is one of my favourite ever walks.
Richard
Do a winter course up on the Ben out of Fort William. You'll love it. And what great access from home you must have to plenty of winter expeditions. Tarmachan ridge is a favourite winter day out of mine. And the Cairngorms can't be more than an hour away with the promise of plenty of snow if not so pinnacled as the (less snow-sure) west coast.Richard
Well, after 6 years with my C4S, that's what I'd recommend - superb in all weathers. I'd probably agree that a C2S with winter tyres would be better in snow that a C4S with summer tyres (but a C4S with winter tyres would be even better...!).
I'd also agree that the adaptive sports seats are superb!
Sidicks
I'd also agree that the adaptive sports seats are superb!
Sidicks
Thanks all for your helpful thoughts - I'm definitely inclined to a manual Gen2 C2S - apart from a possibly superior driving experience, I'll get a bigger boot and be able to buy winter wheels and tyres with the change from a C4S. Then bring on the snow...
Just to make the comparison, I drove a Cayman today, which has confirmed what I think I knew already - that the Cayman is a brilliant masterpiece of engineering with supreme handling and balance. Which makes it feel a tad 'so what' compared to a 911 - my appreciation of it was entirely intellectual, whereas the 911s I've driven have all lit up my "Woo-Hoo!!" buttons, big time. I suspect that this is a slippery slope, in every sense of the term. ;-)
Just to make the comparison, I drove a Cayman today, which has confirmed what I think I knew already - that the Cayman is a brilliant masterpiece of engineering with supreme handling and balance. Which makes it feel a tad 'so what' compared to a 911 - my appreciation of it was entirely intellectual, whereas the 911s I've driven have all lit up my "Woo-Hoo!!" buttons, big time. I suspect that this is a slippery slope, in every sense of the term. ;-)
Technomad said:
Second question: I've seen a couple of cars with PCCB - don't need it but wouldn't mind having it for durability. Big worry is that, living on a dirt track, would the PCCBs be particularly and expensively vulnerable to stones, dirt & grit?
Richard
I think earlier pccbs might have had a few issues, but the latest pccbs have been pretty mainstreams on Porsche models now for about 6 years.Richard
I'd definitely regard them as an asset for road use, with the long life, weight saving, no dust or rust, etc, and I've seen them fitted to Cayennes being tested in 'off-road' conditions without any problems.
If your dirt track is that bad then other components are also likely to get damaged.
Technomad said:
Job done: picked up a 13k mile 997.2 C2S from Porsche Glasgow today and had great fun trundling home up the A84. Been driving diesels too long and need to recalibrate to something that can rev but felt absolutely fantastic - looking forward to bunking off tomorrow to go play....
Congrats! Does your C2S have the optional LSD?spareparts said:
Congrats! Does your C2S have the optional LSD?
Regrettably not - that was in the 'nice to have but not essential' category. Doesn't have sports chrono either but it's a good, low-mileage car that has been very well looked after. It does have the short shifter though and the gear change is an absolute joy :-)Technomad said:
spareparts said:
Congrats! Does your C2S have the optional LSD?
Regrettably not - that was in the 'nice to have but not essential' category. Doesn't have sports chrono either but it's a good, low-mileage car that has been very well looked after. It does have the short shifter though and the gear change is an absolute joy :-)
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