A different approach to selling a 964RS: Your views ?
Discussion
My wife has finally convinced me that I ,( we ) don't need a car that is never used, namely my somewhat modified 964 RS. So having avidly read the Forums I decided to return the car to Colin Belton, at 9M and have the throttle bodies removed, and the racing cams, and return it to a fast 3.8 litre single throttle road specification. The plan is to install new 993 RS Barrels and Pistons, and use a 993 RS crankshaft, retaining the cars correctly numbered original cases, and the 9M/4T cylinder heads, and replacing the Billy Boat exhaust system with a more standard set up, in the hope that this would make the car more salable.
Then it occurred to me that maybe it would be more appealing to an enthusiastic purchaser to actually see the engine in pieces, to be able to see precisely the condition of all the parts and have the opportunity, to have it built to their preferred specification .
The question to the Forum, is this a good plan ?
Thanks.
Then it occurred to me that maybe it would be more appealing to an enthusiastic purchaser to actually see the engine in pieces, to be able to see precisely the condition of all the parts and have the opportunity, to have it built to their preferred specification .
The question to the Forum, is this a good plan ?
Thanks.
I would advertise it now in pieces to allow any potential purchasors to specify their rebuild.
If it doesn't sell promptly, rebuild it as close to standard as possible, refit any modified parts with the originals and sell seperately.
changing internals I would think on a car like that might narrow the market.
If it doesn't sell promptly, rebuild it as close to standard as possible, refit any modified parts with the originals and sell seperately.
changing internals I would think on a car like that might narrow the market.
ravon said:
The question to the Forum, is this a good plan ?
thenJohnboy Mac said:
Advertise the car as is. Spend nothing!
thenravon said:
Too Late, it's in pieces !
So not much point in offering an answer to the question then 
Out of interest, how do the economics work out? How much are you spending on the car to sell it?
I think you best bet is to:
a/ be selling a complete car. The idea of an engine in bits so the new owner can choose the state of build is intriguing, but as it carries the rebuild-uncertainty risk, you will narrow your target market
b/ sell a standard car. It looks to me like the outcome of your rebuild is not standard even if not as highly modded as before.
So all in all, my view is that it's not a good plan.
Bert
BertBert, we obviously have very different thought processes, to me the prospect of being able to see exactly what I'm buying is very appealing' "rebuild uncertainty risk" is not a term I've ever contemplated. Surely, not not knowing if you are buying a pile of old Porsche bits that may be just about to explode is a far less palatable option, at least this way, you know just exactly what condition everything is in ? But that's why I asked the question, and I'm grateful for your time and thought in replying .
Hi !
As per our conversation on the subject the other day, clearly going back to factory 3.6 configuration is not an option, yet, as others have stated, the market likes originality of spec, which leaves you in something of a quandry.
I know the history of the car, about which you have always been fully open and honest, nevertheless a modified engine, however enticing the spec, does seem to narrow the market.
I would be tempted to do a fully photo-documented build of the engine up to 3.8 RSR spec as per your intention, but go back to Motronic. This may seem a retrograde step, and may not even be possible with the 9m heads, but it gets back towards a more "factory" approach. The MoTeC should always be re-saleable, Colin might even take it back in part payment.
Other than that, the quality and work that you put into creating an advert for the car for Pistonheads or wherever seems to be very important. I think you know someone who can help with the photography !
Best of luck ! Someone is going to be getting a lovely car........
Jamie
As per our conversation on the subject the other day, clearly going back to factory 3.6 configuration is not an option, yet, as others have stated, the market likes originality of spec, which leaves you in something of a quandry.
I know the history of the car, about which you have always been fully open and honest, nevertheless a modified engine, however enticing the spec, does seem to narrow the market.
I would be tempted to do a fully photo-documented build of the engine up to 3.8 RSR spec as per your intention, but go back to Motronic. This may seem a retrograde step, and may not even be possible with the 9m heads, but it gets back towards a more "factory" approach. The MoTeC should always be re-saleable, Colin might even take it back in part payment.
Other than that, the quality and work that you put into creating an advert for the car for Pistonheads or wherever seems to be very important. I think you know someone who can help with the photography !
Best of luck ! Someone is going to be getting a lovely car........
Jamie
Ravon, why is it running/going to run a 993 RS crank ?
I concur with what others have said, back to standard (or as near as is possible for sensible money) is the way forward. If you've got the original injection system I'd flog the Motec stuff on PH or Rennlist. If the barrels and pistons are good, I'd try and flog them too and go back to 3.6.
I concur with what others have said, back to standard (or as near as is possible for sensible money) is the way forward. If you've got the original injection system I'd flog the Motec stuff on PH or Rennlist. If the barrels and pistons are good, I'd try and flog them too and go back to 3.6.
Slippydiff said:
Ravon, why is it running/going to run a 993 RS crank ?
I concur with what others have said, back to standard (or as near as is possible for sensible money) is the way forward. If you've got the original injection system I'd flog the Motec stuff on PH or Rennlist. If the barrels and pistons are good, I'd try and flog them too and go back to 3.6.
If my memory serves me correctly, and the phone call to Colin had the back drop of the noise of qualifying at Classic Le Mans, the 993 crank idea was a reliability issue, because 964 RS are starting to suffer with pulley failures, which are apparently expensive to fix ? But indeed as my car has only covered 48K kilometers, it's probably better to leave the original in place. The cases have been machined so it has to be 3.8 litre.I concur with what others have said, back to standard (or as near as is possible for sensible money) is the way forward. If you've got the original injection system I'd flog the Motec stuff on PH or Rennlist. If the barrels and pistons are good, I'd try and flog them too and go back to 3.6.
I shouldn't have posted the original question, it's really depressing to realise how I've very expensively "ruined" what was once a wonderful car, except that for me, the original was pretty slow, didn't handle particularly nicely, had no cage so was potentially more dangerous for my purposes and had ludicrously heavy steering, that much lessened my chances of ever recovering from a big oversteer moment . From this you will see it's not just the engine that I "improved".
Anyway armed with your informed views, I think I'll get 9M to put it back together with as many new 964RS components as they can supply, back to a single throttle and sports cams, it will have to be 3.8 litre, and I'll leave the Motec, although I have the Motronic because it runs so much better on the former, and I'll put it back in the corner of the barn, think of some other means of appeasing my wife and leave it to my daughter to do something with the car when I pass away !
In the mean time I continue to have enormous fun ( 16 track days already this year ) with my lightweight 968 engined 944, which for my purposes is a better car than a 964RS will ever be, and all for a tiny amount of money, and no chance ever, of tragic speculators mulling over me ruining a wonderful classic !
Don't get down about it mate, there are some out there ( 
) that respect what you've done & like the idea of it.
The last time we spoke I mentioned this car:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/3842532.htm
which is probably the closest to it on the market, & yes depressingly it just won't sell. But, as the saying goes, you only need to sell it once & you just need the chance to find that right person.
Personally, disregarding the history of the car (& to be fair, I think you've always been too honest in that respect as plenty of other RS' have history-just not as openly as yours) you've done things that had I the time, money & inclination I would have done too.
It was similar to when I was offered a great 911 clubsport at a great price, it had had the 9m 3.4 conversion & the naysayers put me off with all the originality b
ks.
Thing is, hardly any of these cars, particulary with the life's they lead are ever very "original" at all.
Food for thought....
) that respect what you've done & like the idea of it.The last time we spoke I mentioned this car:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/3842532.htm
which is probably the closest to it on the market, & yes depressingly it just won't sell. But, as the saying goes, you only need to sell it once & you just need the chance to find that right person.
Personally, disregarding the history of the car (& to be fair, I think you've always been too honest in that respect as plenty of other RS' have history-just not as openly as yours) you've done things that had I the time, money & inclination I would have done too.
It was similar to when I was offered a great 911 clubsport at a great price, it had had the 9m 3.4 conversion & the naysayers put me off with all the originality b
ks.Thing is, hardly any of these cars, particulary with the life's they lead are ever very "original" at all.
Food for thought....
ravon said:
I shouldn't have posted the original question, it's really depressing to realise how I've very expensively "ruined" what was once a wonderful car, except that for me, the original was pretty slow, didn't handle particularly nicely, had no cage so was potentially more dangerous for my purposes and had ludicrously heavy steering, that much lessened my chances of ever recovering from a big oversteer moment . From this you will see it's not just the engine that I "improved".
Anyway armed with your informed views, I think I'll get 9M to put it back together with as many new 964RS components as they can supply, back to a single throttle and sports cams, it will have to be 3.8 litre, and I'll leave the Motec, although I have the Motronic because it runs so much better on the former, and I'll put it back in the corner of the barn, think of some other means of appeasing my wife and leave it to my daughter to do something with the car when I pass away !
In the mean time I continue to have enormous fun ( 16 track days already this year ) with my lightweight 968 engined 944, which for my purposes is a better car than a 964RS will ever be, and all for a tiny amount of money, and no chance ever, of tragic speculators mulling over me ruining a wonderful classic !
So much truth here. Unfortunately the 964RS has become a collectors trinket. But that should only be an issue for you if you want "tragic speculator" money for it. It's the sort of car I'd contemplate buying for sensible money. Anyway armed with your informed views, I think I'll get 9M to put it back together with as many new 964RS components as they can supply, back to a single throttle and sports cams, it will have to be 3.8 litre, and I'll leave the Motec, although I have the Motronic because it runs so much better on the former, and I'll put it back in the corner of the barn, think of some other means of appeasing my wife and leave it to my daughter to do something with the car when I pass away !
In the mean time I continue to have enormous fun ( 16 track days already this year ) with my lightweight 968 engined 944, which for my purposes is a better car than a 964RS will ever be, and all for a tiny amount of money, and no chance ever, of tragic speculators mulling over me ruining a wonderful classic !
ravon said:
My wife has finally convinced me that I ,( we ) don't need a car that is never used, namely my somewhat modified 964 RS. So having avidly read the Forums I decided to return the car to Colin Belton, at 9M and have the throttle bodies removed, and the racing cams, and return it to a fast 3.8 litre single throttle road specification. The plan is to install new 993 RS Barrels and Pistons, and use a 993 RS crankshaft, retaining the cars correctly numbered original cases, and the 9M/4T cylinder heads, and replacing the Billy Boat exhaust system with a more standard set up, in the hope that this would make the car more salable.
Then it occurred to me that maybe it would be more appealing to an enthusiastic purchaser to actually see the engine in pieces, to be able to see precisely the condition of all the parts and have the opportunity, to have it built to their preferred specification .
The question to the Forum, is this a good plan ?
Thanks.
I bought my 964RS CS with a blown engine that was in pieces in various boxes dotted around the 9M workshop back in 2004/2005. I had no issue with this as I could then build the engine to my spec which I did. I sold it a few years later as it wasnt being used.Then it occurred to me that maybe it would be more appealing to an enthusiastic purchaser to actually see the engine in pieces, to be able to see precisely the condition of all the parts and have the opportunity, to have it built to their preferred specification .
The question to the Forum, is this a good plan ?
Thanks.
Your scenario is slightly different I presume in that the engine isnt blown but you are returning it to a more standard build. I think even though you are returning it to a standard-ish spec the car will ultimately be a modified one and these days have to be priced accordingly.
If you could sell as it is now I would consider - it will mean a lower price but the net difference could be the same as spending the rebuild money then holding out for the right buyer! Failing that rebuild to standard spec without a doubt.
It is quite easy to test the bottom pulley, the 993 crank idea sounds odd given that the 964 unit should be fine. Also I believe the main bearings on the 64 crank are bigger than the 993, so the reliability argument does not stack up. I dont think a standard 3.8 motor with or without motec would make a big difference come sale time but some of what you have suggested does not make much sense financially, the heads for example I would leave standard for this reason.
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