Is this a walletectomy?
Discussion
All,
The below is long, so be warned before you start reading.
This is my first posting for a while (I've mostly been a lurker), but I thought people might be interested in a recent set of experiences with a certain Herts OPC. I'd also welcome opinions - am I being unfair to the OPC, or are they performing a walletectomy?
After a recent unfortunate and very grumpy-making experience when my '07 Porsche Turbo was hit whilst parked at a train station, it went off for an insurance-based repair (hopefully the police will track down the CCTC footage - but I'm not holding my breath or expecting to get my excess back.) (BTW, the person who hit it managed to knock one side of the bumper off.)
After the approved body-shop did their part, they sent the car off to the above-mentioned OPC where it has been continually serviced and where it has been approved for an extended warranty since 2009 - once by its previous owner and twice by me. I note again, it has never been serviced elsewhere.
The OPC told the body-shop that the passenger's side air conditioner radiator was leaking - and that the air conditioner condenser was a 'non-Porsche' fitment. Quite interesting as the only work on the air conditioning system was carried out by this OPC two years ago.
Also equally interesting is that around three months ago, when I had a problem with the Cobra Tracker, the same OPC told me this was not the original fitting and therefore did not qualify under the extended warranty. It was IDENTICAL to the correct fitment, but apparently in the 'wrong place' and 'not fitted by Porsche'. As I wanted to keep the extended warranty, I swallowed a bill for around £1100 and received two new security tags - identical to the old ones, but without 'Cobra' embossed on the tag. (Cobra's view was that they didn't know whether the original fitment qualified as a VTS fitting, but that the part that replaced it was in every way, identical and all that was needed to restore functionality was a new aerial mount).
Anyway - after a couple of calls with the Dealer Principal, it turned out that the 'gold standard' technician had made an error, and this was because air conditioner condensers prior to 2009 had a 996.x part number and had a different colour casing - apparently it was a surprise that an '07 car had a pre-'09 part - and somehow he thought a 996.x part number indicated a non-Porsche part.
I had recently been told the top of the 'front suspension arms' were worn (top mounts) - and these are 'wear and tear items' so not covered by the extended warranty - after some discussion the Dealer Principal offered to cover 60% of the cost of replacing these in part to mitigate the error about the AC condenser. The full cost is around £1100 because much disassembly is apparently needed - but he would cut this down to around £5-600. As my wheels also needed some major re-furbishing, I threw these into the mix, and we eventually agreed a total £1000 for the top mounts and for all 4 (997.1 Turbo) wheels to be refurbished. This seemed ok - although opinions on whether I was naive here will be taken on board.
Three days later I received a call saying the top mounts had seized onto the suspension and although they had tried the usual approached to detaching them (lubrication soak, etc) these had failed, so the suspension components needed replacing as well. As the labour had essentially been done, the best cost that this could be done at was £800
This means that I am due to receive a nice £1800 bill, although I do get essentially new front suspension and wheels. (The AC condenser was replaced under warranty.)
For completeness I should note that whilst the car is fully C16, the previous owner imported it via a dealer in Cypress - however all the codes check out as UK spec - and the pre-purchase inspection, as well as Porsche 111 point inspections have always been fine.
Equally for completeness, this OPC has managed a number of other recent wallet extractions and has managed to make a number of accidental oversights that could have led to a few more thousand pounds being inadvertently charged. (Luckily I noticed!)
Where I am at present - I have lost all confidence in my OPC. I don't believe in their integrity and am planning to dissuade two immediate members of my family from making new Porsche purchases. I have been driving Porsches since 2004 - when I purchased a new 997 C2S from this OPC - but am now at the point where my pleasure in my car has been so damaged that I am inclined to never again purchase a Porsche, and certainly never use this OPC again.
Am I being unreasonable? Does the above sound OK in terms of costs for what is being done, or is the general view that a rear wallet-ectomy without anaesthetic is in progress?
All advice gratefully received...
The below is long, so be warned before you start reading.
This is my first posting for a while (I've mostly been a lurker), but I thought people might be interested in a recent set of experiences with a certain Herts OPC. I'd also welcome opinions - am I being unfair to the OPC, or are they performing a walletectomy?
After a recent unfortunate and very grumpy-making experience when my '07 Porsche Turbo was hit whilst parked at a train station, it went off for an insurance-based repair (hopefully the police will track down the CCTC footage - but I'm not holding my breath or expecting to get my excess back.) (BTW, the person who hit it managed to knock one side of the bumper off.)
After the approved body-shop did their part, they sent the car off to the above-mentioned OPC where it has been continually serviced and where it has been approved for an extended warranty since 2009 - once by its previous owner and twice by me. I note again, it has never been serviced elsewhere.
The OPC told the body-shop that the passenger's side air conditioner radiator was leaking - and that the air conditioner condenser was a 'non-Porsche' fitment. Quite interesting as the only work on the air conditioning system was carried out by this OPC two years ago.
Also equally interesting is that around three months ago, when I had a problem with the Cobra Tracker, the same OPC told me this was not the original fitting and therefore did not qualify under the extended warranty. It was IDENTICAL to the correct fitment, but apparently in the 'wrong place' and 'not fitted by Porsche'. As I wanted to keep the extended warranty, I swallowed a bill for around £1100 and received two new security tags - identical to the old ones, but without 'Cobra' embossed on the tag. (Cobra's view was that they didn't know whether the original fitment qualified as a VTS fitting, but that the part that replaced it was in every way, identical and all that was needed to restore functionality was a new aerial mount).
Anyway - after a couple of calls with the Dealer Principal, it turned out that the 'gold standard' technician had made an error, and this was because air conditioner condensers prior to 2009 had a 996.x part number and had a different colour casing - apparently it was a surprise that an '07 car had a pre-'09 part - and somehow he thought a 996.x part number indicated a non-Porsche part.
I had recently been told the top of the 'front suspension arms' were worn (top mounts) - and these are 'wear and tear items' so not covered by the extended warranty - after some discussion the Dealer Principal offered to cover 60% of the cost of replacing these in part to mitigate the error about the AC condenser. The full cost is around £1100 because much disassembly is apparently needed - but he would cut this down to around £5-600. As my wheels also needed some major re-furbishing, I threw these into the mix, and we eventually agreed a total £1000 for the top mounts and for all 4 (997.1 Turbo) wheels to be refurbished. This seemed ok - although opinions on whether I was naive here will be taken on board.
Three days later I received a call saying the top mounts had seized onto the suspension and although they had tried the usual approached to detaching them (lubrication soak, etc) these had failed, so the suspension components needed replacing as well. As the labour had essentially been done, the best cost that this could be done at was £800
This means that I am due to receive a nice £1800 bill, although I do get essentially new front suspension and wheels. (The AC condenser was replaced under warranty.)
For completeness I should note that whilst the car is fully C16, the previous owner imported it via a dealer in Cypress - however all the codes check out as UK spec - and the pre-purchase inspection, as well as Porsche 111 point inspections have always been fine.
Equally for completeness, this OPC has managed a number of other recent wallet extractions and has managed to make a number of accidental oversights that could have led to a few more thousand pounds being inadvertently charged. (Luckily I noticed!)
Where I am at present - I have lost all confidence in my OPC. I don't believe in their integrity and am planning to dissuade two immediate members of my family from making new Porsche purchases. I have been driving Porsches since 2004 - when I purchased a new 997 C2S from this OPC - but am now at the point where my pleasure in my car has been so damaged that I am inclined to never again purchase a Porsche, and certainly never use this OPC again.
Am I being unreasonable? Does the above sound OK in terms of costs for what is being done, or is the general view that a rear wallet-ectomy without anaesthetic is in progress?
All advice gratefully received...
May I ask the mileage of the car now and when you bought it ......?
Also where did you buy the car from ?
Are you sure the car is C16 and not C98 ?
Its seems the guy made a genuine mistake ref the air con rad
There is no way a Porsche warranty will cover a non Porsche fitted alarm unit .... and shirely you cant expect them to..? ( where was it fitted and by who ? and does it have a manufacturers warranty ? )
I guess there are parts which are subject to wear and tear and it appears unlucky by needing the additional repair , however the OPC has been more than reasonable by taking £500/600 off the bill as goodwill
My first three questions are really to see if the top mounts have worn prematurely and to see if the level of goodwill is appropriate given the circumstances
When all is said and done if you have lost faith in your OPC there is very little they can do to restore your faith in them , but have a chat with them and see if they can.....if not then its time for you to change
Also where did you buy the car from ?
Are you sure the car is C16 and not C98 ?
Its seems the guy made a genuine mistake ref the air con rad
There is no way a Porsche warranty will cover a non Porsche fitted alarm unit .... and shirely you cant expect them to..? ( where was it fitted and by who ? and does it have a manufacturers warranty ? )
I guess there are parts which are subject to wear and tear and it appears unlucky by needing the additional repair , however the OPC has been more than reasonable by taking £500/600 off the bill as goodwill
My first three questions are really to see if the top mounts have worn prematurely and to see if the level of goodwill is appropriate given the circumstances
When all is said and done if you have lost faith in your OPC there is very little they can do to restore your faith in them , but have a chat with them and see if they can.....if not then its time for you to change
Edited by Rugbyman on Friday 20th July 15:11
Call Steven in Servicing at Mid Sussex explain your situation and he will take care of you. I drive there from London for everything because I have not found a better OPC, and had two bad experiences with the other one you mentioned.
I see after sales service as 50% of the ownership experience, so I can see why you are upset. But do not let this deter to from the best drivers cars in the world, as there are OPCs out there like MS who are are surprisingly good.
Stay positive and remember there is no substitute!
I see after sales service as 50% of the ownership experience, so I can see why you are upset. But do not let this deter to from the best drivers cars in the world, as there are OPCs out there like MS who are are surprisingly good.
Stay positive and remember there is no substitute!
hali001 said:
Hmmm - "Rat Shield" works. I'll take the underlying implication that I should have spread my wings...? Perhaps East, or Mid Sussex? (They may also pick up a couple of hundred K's worth of better directed spend.)
I'd buy a car from them if it was the right car, (Lee in sales, if he's still there, was very good) but I'd have any work done elsewhere if at all possible. If you're buying new, I'd go elsewhere though. A possible IMS claim under warranty involved no end of faffing about for me, and resulted in no work being done and me losing confidence in my 987S prematurely and shifting it on.
Mid Sussex consistently get the best comments on here, though I've found East London to be good, albeit just for a major service.
Rugbyman - covering your points, though not necessarily in order:
1. Bought from Bramley with 2500 miles on the clock in 2009 (1st service at Ratshield). DEFINITELY C16 (from sticker in book to confirmation by Porsche GB).
2. Now 48000 miles - 2 x more services from Ratshield in 2010, 2011.
3. Aircon work done at Ratshield in 2010 - in 2012, they queried their OWN work, but they don't seem to believe in checking things. Also seems to be their default until you force them to accept that it is an original part and can show they fitted it!
4. No evidence that the tracker isn't an original VTS fitting, beyond the (SAME) technician saying "whilst it's identical to the Porsche fitting, it's fitted in the wrong place"
5. An ever growing list of 'interesting behaviours' from the OPC - brake pads are mysteriously 80% worn, then 3 months LATER are 50% worn (hope they'll be brand new soon).
In my business I do everything I can do the right things for my clients - I'm dealing with people from 25 years back (slightly scary that there are 25 years to look back on.) Here it feels to me that Ratshield are doing everything that they can to extract cash, and are incentivising their people to be 'creative'. Possibly good for them in the near term with a challenging financial environment. Awful long term however.
If they'd behaved better, or even warmed up the catheter, I would have felt better.
1. Bought from Bramley with 2500 miles on the clock in 2009 (1st service at Ratshield). DEFINITELY C16 (from sticker in book to confirmation by Porsche GB).
2. Now 48000 miles - 2 x more services from Ratshield in 2010, 2011.
3. Aircon work done at Ratshield in 2010 - in 2012, they queried their OWN work, but they don't seem to believe in checking things. Also seems to be their default until you force them to accept that it is an original part and can show they fitted it!
4. No evidence that the tracker isn't an original VTS fitting, beyond the (SAME) technician saying "whilst it's identical to the Porsche fitting, it's fitted in the wrong place"
5. An ever growing list of 'interesting behaviours' from the OPC - brake pads are mysteriously 80% worn, then 3 months LATER are 50% worn (hope they'll be brand new soon).
In my business I do everything I can do the right things for my clients - I'm dealing with people from 25 years back (slightly scary that there are 25 years to look back on.) Here it feels to me that Ratshield are doing everything that they can to extract cash, and are incentivising their people to be 'creative'. Possibly good for them in the near term with a challenging financial environment. Awful long term however.
If they'd behaved better, or even warmed up the catheter, I would have felt better.
I rate Lee - less so at least one of his colleagues.
Also, I forgot to say, I paid for my 987S which I bought used to have a tracker fitted - ratshield arranged it, though via a 3rd party (who took cash in hand and dodged VAT!) - all done before I'd signed on the line (though I'd paid a deposit). Would that have passed muster for a Porsche warranty? Possibly not, though that was never tested.
Also, I forgot to say, I paid for my 987S which I bought used to have a tracker fitted - ratshield arranged it, though via a 3rd party (who took cash in hand and dodged VAT!) - all done before I'd signed on the line (though I'd paid a deposit). Would that have passed muster for a Porsche warranty? Possibly not, though that was never tested.
Im sorry to hear about your accident and hope you get the CCTV footage you need .... unfortunately I wasnt able to when in the same position - grumpy was an understatement.
As said , the guy seems to have made a mistake ref the air con rad and I totally take your point about not checking.
I honestly believe given the vehicles mileage , age and history with the OPC their offer og goodwill for top mount repairs is fair. Perhaps if the vehicle had been purchased from inside the OPC network or from themselves a little more goodwill would be forthcoming ..? after all goodwill is a two way srteet.
Re your Cobra unit - as your vehicle is a C16 then it will have the correct option code on the sticker if a factory fit ?
If retro fitted may I suggest contacting Bramleys to see if it was fitted when they had the car and if not then contact the original supplying UK OPC and ask then if they fitted the unit
IIRC at the time your car was new in the UK to an OPC the Cobra units could only be fitted by Cobra at the OPC - I may well be totally wrong on this as memory fades.
Lastly if you do wish to continue having a relationship with this OPC then put your points in a letter to the DP and judge his response , he may be able to restore your faith..... if not then I totally understand you have to move on to another OPC..... not all OPC are the same
As said , the guy seems to have made a mistake ref the air con rad and I totally take your point about not checking.
I honestly believe given the vehicles mileage , age and history with the OPC their offer og goodwill for top mount repairs is fair. Perhaps if the vehicle had been purchased from inside the OPC network or from themselves a little more goodwill would be forthcoming ..? after all goodwill is a two way srteet.
Re your Cobra unit - as your vehicle is a C16 then it will have the correct option code on the sticker if a factory fit ?
If retro fitted may I suggest contacting Bramleys to see if it was fitted when they had the car and if not then contact the original supplying UK OPC and ask then if they fitted the unit
IIRC at the time your car was new in the UK to an OPC the Cobra units could only be fitted by Cobra at the OPC - I may well be totally wrong on this as memory fades.
Lastly if you do wish to continue having a relationship with this OPC then put your points in a letter to the DP and judge his response , he may be able to restore your faith..... if not then I totally understand you have to move on to another OPC..... not all OPC are the same
Get yourself to OPC Silverstone, Not all that far and my experience has always been great. After sales manager Mark is a good guy and Stephen & the young lady have always been good.
Being a sytner dealership they always manage to sort out good courtesy cars too..... I have read some instances of people putting a 997 tt and getting a Audi A4 in return from other OPC's
I put my 997's in and was always offered the choice of latest 911 of what ever else I wanted so have tried a variety of Caymans, Cayennes & Panamera's aswell.
Your storey sounds like a classic case of dealership upselling, something tells me that they were short target that month...... Next your be advising that they are saying that your pads & discs are shot and that your tyres have 5mm of tread but need replacing!
Being a sytner dealership they always manage to sort out good courtesy cars too..... I have read some instances of people putting a 997 tt and getting a Audi A4 in return from other OPC's
I put my 997's in and was always offered the choice of latest 911 of what ever else I wanted so have tried a variety of Caymans, Cayennes & Panamera's aswell.
Your storey sounds like a classic case of dealership upselling, something tells me that they were short target that month...... Next your be advising that they are saying that your pads & discs are shot and that your tyres have 5mm of tread but need replacing!
True enough. In terms of marque there is little to compare - and having tried a 991 S for a couple of days I have to say I want one. Just not from Ratshield!
RVVUNM said:
My friend, don't blame the marque blame the OPC. Get yourself along to Swindon OPC (Dick Lovett), true gents and a group owner who has Porsche on his bones, oh and also Pope works there and he's a legend.
OP - sound like they are mucking you about. Letter to the DP would be my first step. If that didn't pan out as expected, I'd be straight down to Mid Sussex - they are excellent. I deal with Rob for sales and Peter for service (who posts on here occasionally). So far, everybody I've dealt with there is utterly excellent and they only use Porsches as courtesy cars, which is great news!
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