993 4S Suspension
Discussion
I've recently bought a 993 4S , been driving it regularly over the last couple of weeks and noticed that on un-even or cambered road surfaces it seems to "wander" or "track" and feel a little "uneasy" if that makes sense !?
I have a few other cars 996 4S / Lotus Elise / BMW Z3M coupe and have owned a number of 911's previously ( including a few RS's- 2.7 & 964) and can't say I've experienced this with any of my other cars - the 993 is completely standard ( tyres/suspension) and I'm interested to know if anyone has experienced similar ? and/or uprated their suspension ? i.e is the 993 RS suspension harder/firmer and is it possible to fit this to the 4S or can anyone suggest any other "up-grades" which will give the car a firmer feel ?
Thanks
I have a few other cars 996 4S / Lotus Elise / BMW Z3M coupe and have owned a number of 911's previously ( including a few RS's- 2.7 & 964) and can't say I've experienced this with any of my other cars - the 993 is completely standard ( tyres/suspension) and I'm interested to know if anyone has experienced similar ? and/or uprated their suspension ? i.e is the 993 RS suspension harder/firmer and is it possible to fit this to the 4S or can anyone suggest any other "up-grades" which will give the car a firmer feel ?
Thanks
It sounds like you are on original suspension? You may need to replace the lot and get it set up properly.
As for what with, thats a thorny subject!!! Get yourself a loooong drink, and then do a search on the 993 section of 911uk.com. Dont say I didnt warn you!
Has it had its front wishbones replaced in the past couple of years?
MTR
As for what with, thats a thorny subject!!! Get yourself a loooong drink, and then do a search on the 993 section of 911uk.com. Dont say I didnt warn you!
Has it had its front wishbones replaced in the past couple of years?
MTR
mollytherocker said:
It sounds like you are on original suspension? You may need to replace the lot and get it set up properly.
As for what with, thats a thorny subject!!! Get yourself a loooong drink, and then do a search on the 993 section of 911uk.com. Dont say I didnt warn you!
Has it had its front wishbones replaced in the past couple of years?
MTR
Thanks - I'll have a look at that .As for what with, thats a thorny subject!!! Get yourself a loooong drink, and then do a search on the 993 section of 911uk.com. Dont say I didnt warn you!
Has it had its front wishbones replaced in the past couple of years?
MTR
All completely standard as far as I know and not replaced in the last couple of years - should they be replaced regularly ?
sng45 said:
Thanks - I'll have a look at that .
All completely standard as far as I know and not replaced in the last couple of years - should they be replaced regularly ?
They are a well known wear item and may well be one of the key causes of your handling concerns. All completely standard as far as I know and not replaced in the last couple of years - should they be replaced regularly ?
A start would be to get it inspected at a good indie and then go from there. Just make sure that when you are done, you a get the geo done properly.
Oh, and you might want to consider new engine mounts too. RS ones make a big difference apparently.
MTR
Had similar experience with my 993 C2S, which is my daily driver. Being used to more 'sporty' set ups i found the car vague and understeery. A good alignement and geometry improved it a bit but it still did not feel properly planted and the car had 4x4 ride height. Then changed suspension first to Bilstein which provided the right level of precision and directness in the steering but was pretty crashy esp in town. After spending some time experiencing with various set ups agreed with Steve at JZM to switch to a set of KW clubsport. As the set is much more adjustable we were able to get to the right compromise in terms of ride height, turn in and comfort. This is a bit more expensive but much more sophisticated in terms of damping and nicer to live with on a day to day basis. In a way very similar to my 993 RS but with a bit more comfort. This would be my recommendation for what is supposed to be primarily a road car.
They are absolutely horrible on tired shocks and wishbones. Mine was downright dangerous. I replaced with standard MO33 + 993RS control arms (wishbones).
It transformed the car. You will get a great car back again if you just replace the tired bits. If you want to go further, then as others have said, the debate on which way to go and how much to spend begins
It transformed the car. You will get a great car back again if you just replace the tired bits. If you want to go further, then as others have said, the debate on which way to go and how much to spend begins
Have a quick read of this;
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=94...
Sounds similar to how I found my 993.
As I say in that thread I'd just book it in with someone who knows there 911s for a geo, ride height & checkup, it really isn't expensive & from there you get the knowledge of what, if anything, needs replacing in your car.
For further long-winded reading have a shifty at this one;
http://web6.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
^^that was about my second 911, a fully restored classic, as the thread painfully details I just couldn't get on with the feckin thing, but at least I knew after getting it checked out it was me & not the car!
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=94...
Sounds similar to how I found my 993.
As I say in that thread I'd just book it in with someone who knows there 911s for a geo, ride height & checkup, it really isn't expensive & from there you get the knowledge of what, if anything, needs replacing in your car.
For further long-winded reading have a shifty at this one;
http://web6.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
^^that was about my second 911, a fully restored classic, as the thread painfully details I just couldn't get on with the feckin thing, but at least I knew after getting it checked out it was me & not the car!
I changed the whole suspension on my C4S to turbo setup, so new Bilstein shocks, turbo springs, turbo roll bars and new bushes all round and a full geo. The car was then so nervous it was f
king horrible to drive and I swapped it for a GT3. These cars actually benefit from softer springing I think.
king horrible to drive and I swapped it for a GT3. These cars actually benefit from softer springing I think.As so many have already said - front wishbones (993RS ones are a good call) and shocks all round and then get the geometry reset.
People underestimate how critical geometry is on these cars, both front and rear. The rear system of "kinematic toe in" is complicated but works really well when it's correctly aligned. There are some great 911 geo specialists out there.
People underestimate how critical geometry is on these cars, both front and rear. The rear system of "kinematic toe in" is complicated but works really well when it's correctly aligned. There are some great 911 geo specialists out there.
Steve you bought my silver 993 C4S some years ago you may recall. (P Plate-Artic Silver)
I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
james S said:
They are absolutely horrible on tired shocks and wishbones. Mine was downright dangerous. I replaced with standard MO33 + 993RS control arms (wishbones).
It transformed the car. You will get a great car back again if you just replace the tired bits. If you want to go further, then as others have said, the debate on which way to go and how much to spend begins
This sounds like a good plan to me. Ancient suspension bushes and dampers do not make a good handling combination. Suspension is one of those things that degrades slowly over time and you hardly notice the changes until you fit fresh items. Probably no real need to 'upgrade' for road use. It transformed the car. You will get a great car back again if you just replace the tired bits. If you want to go further, then as others have said, the debate on which way to go and how much to spend begins
Crimp a Length! said:
Steve you bought my silver 993 C4S some years ago you may recall. (P Plate-Artic Silver)
I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
You've got a good memory Ed ! This is the same car, I sold it to a friend of mine who unfortunately died of throat cancer in March - we talked last year about me buying it back as he looked to be getting better and wanted to buy a Cayman. I bought the car from Toms widow as she didn't want to be involved with the upset of selling it, initially I was going to help with the sale but drove it and was smitten again ! however as I mentioned, having driven it and "pressed on" a little ! I find the suspension a little "vague" - will perhaps take action re suspension change as mentioned above ( although I've seen a 997 GT3 I wouldn't mind !)I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
Your GT2 looks good, hope you're well
Steve
sng45 said:
Crimp a Length! said:
Steve you bought my silver 993 C4S some years ago you may recall. (P Plate-Artic Silver)
I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
You've got a good memory Ed ! This is the same car, I sold it to a friend of mine who unfortunately died of throat cancer in March - we talked last year about me buying it back as he looked to be getting better and wanted to buy a Cayman. I bought the car from Toms widow as she didn't want to be involved with the upset of selling it, initially I was going to help with the sale but drove it and was smitten again ! however as I mentioned, having driven it and "pressed on" a little ! I find the suspension a little "vague" - will perhaps take action re suspension change as mentioned above ( although I've seen a 997 GT3 I wouldn't mind !)I always found them a nervous ride and never really felt confident in the car.
That was one of the reasons i sold the car, but it is the nature of them.
Apparently you need to do the 4 wheel alignment on them a lot also if this helps.
Your GT2 looks good, hope you're well
Steve
I think it needs an alignment Steve to be honest, i have since found out that the 4S variants are a bit twitchy if slightly out.
997 GT3 lovely car!!
Yeah the GT2 is lovely but a bit too quick for me, will probably move it on soon as i miss having rear seats so i can put my boys in hence doesn't get used, so if you know anybody PM me.
rlw said:
I changed the whole suspension on my C4S to turbo setup, so new Bilstein shocks, turbo springs, turbo roll bars and new bushes all round and a full geo. The car was then so nervous it was fking horrible to drive and I swapped it for a GT3. These cars actually benefit from softer springing I think.
Sounds logic to me that you had this kind of handling : king horrible to drive and I swapped it for a GT3. These cars actually benefit from softer springing I think.The rear spring of the 993TT have a much higher spring rate due to the added weight of the turbo engine.
Installing these on a N.A. 993 is not a good idea.
Hi,
I have just been through the same thing and am now the owner of a "new" car. I have a 993 C2S which I have had for quite a long time. Now on 56,000 miles I have been thinking for a while that the handling has been degrading - That nasty diving off towards the ditch on bumpy roads, too "under-steery" and a tendency to thump over ridges and so on that wasn't there before.
Having done the research here and at PCGB including the threads referenced here, I took the car to Centre Gravity near Coventry. Chris there is a really decent bloke, he went over the car in real detail, established suspension parameters (camber castor etc) were out, ride height at the back had dropped and the original Monro dampers were well past their best. He also said the lower wishbones and the top mounts which also wear were fine and didn't try and sell me stuff I didn't need.
He had the car two days, replaced bushes and dampers and set up the suspension for "fun B Road" although he'll set this many different ways depending on how you want the car to be and how you use it. We went for Koni FSBs for the dampers as they are more road friendly and I have no intention of tracking the car.
I have to say the car is transformed. Much more stable, totally neutral with the understeer gone, a million fold better on bumpy roads.
It sounds to me like your car has the same kind of issues. I'd definitely take it to someone reputable and see what they say but it sounds very much like tired components and geometry that isn't as it out to be.
Hope that helps.
I have just been through the same thing and am now the owner of a "new" car. I have a 993 C2S which I have had for quite a long time. Now on 56,000 miles I have been thinking for a while that the handling has been degrading - That nasty diving off towards the ditch on bumpy roads, too "under-steery" and a tendency to thump over ridges and so on that wasn't there before.
Having done the research here and at PCGB including the threads referenced here, I took the car to Centre Gravity near Coventry. Chris there is a really decent bloke, he went over the car in real detail, established suspension parameters (camber castor etc) were out, ride height at the back had dropped and the original Monro dampers were well past their best. He also said the lower wishbones and the top mounts which also wear were fine and didn't try and sell me stuff I didn't need.
He had the car two days, replaced bushes and dampers and set up the suspension for "fun B Road" although he'll set this many different ways depending on how you want the car to be and how you use it. We went for Koni FSBs for the dampers as they are more road friendly and I have no intention of tracking the car.
I have to say the car is transformed. Much more stable, totally neutral with the understeer gone, a million fold better on bumpy roads.
It sounds to me like your car has the same kind of issues. I'd definitely take it to someone reputable and see what they say but it sounds very much like tired components and geometry that isn't as it out to be.
Hope that helps.
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