here is the company that built the **** m96/7 blocks?
Discussion
sorry i nicked this from another post on here but its worth a look especially section 3.5 "porsche has a pilot customer??"
hartech any input here on the design?
http://www.kspg-ag.de/pdfdoc/central_brochures/at_...
hartech any input here on the design?
http://www.kspg-ag.de/pdfdoc/central_brochures/at_...
The source of the engine block castings is interesting and there is a lot more information that we have gleaned from direct contact with them over the last few years (not easy being both German and somewhat defensive about the problems) - but in my opinion the problem of scoring did not emanate from the cylinder bore material nor the manufacturers or their methods of production - in fact - apart from the obvious need to secure the tops in a closed deck design, I think Lokasil is a brilliant bore material - the problem causing scoring rests elsewhere (although a change of bore material may have minimised it).
I can explain more by borrowing some points from a previous posting elsewhere as follows.
I think it is important for you all to understand - that a scored bore is simply the visible consequence of the fact that the piston has become damaged and is no longer serviceable. You cannot see the damage to the piston without stripping the engine but can see the results of it in the scored bores.
Bores can show lines and some marking and we have had some brought to us that others garages think are scored but all they saw was the reflection of light marking lines by the light on the camera and assumed it was scoring. It is quite difficult to be certain unless you have seen a lot of them - the camera distorts the view considerably.
We have invested thousands in finding the causes and testing solutions. The process of working through and testing things has enabled us now to understand the problem fully - what the causes actually are and what can be done about it.
We already have an excellent and reliable solution but although less than half the price of a new engine (and modified to improve reliability etc) it is quite expensive for many owners particularly as the value of the cars they could afford to buy reduces with age- so we continue to develop those solutions, improve tooling and production equipment to lower manufacturing costs and improve our rebuild options and products. There are still more under test and in development that will be available in the future to try and reduce the costs and improve the results still further.
So while reading and contemplating all the postings - please remember that it is the piston that starts the problem and that there are good repair options available that cost much less than a new engine - are better than a used one - from a source that is continually working hard to offer even better value in the years ahead as production volumes increase as more and more fail.
They are still brilliant cars to own and drive and prices are reasonable - but they do incorporate a technical weakness that gets exposed by those using the car in the way it should be able to handle reliably - either accelerating hard at low revs or driving very fast.
I guess if there was a throttle stop that could be set at say 1/4 throttle when accelerating from low revs and then say half to three quarters throttle at mid range to high rev - the engines may all survive.
Although there are plenty of owners who never drive at full throttle at high revs - the variable valve lift and cam timing make it difficult not to get high pistons face loads at low revs - even driven modestly.
As engines do not fail until relatively high mileages or years (averages of 40K+ and 4 years + say) testing different ideas is almost impossible without hard driving which is dangerous on public roads - so - we presently race 3.2 Boxster versions (same block and bore material etc) - as this is our way of performing that part of our testing program to identify weaknesses and causes in a safer environment more quickly as racing always exposes any weak areas quicker.
We are not going to learn anything unless we run the racing engines we build until they show signs of a failure - and we think we need to then strip and inspect them. So although it would be easy to rebuild them more frequently to avoid public failures - we have bigger issues to pursue and need to see what wears out first and what stops it.
We could have started with a 996 but thought it best to start with the slightly smaller version to hopefully get some mileages out of the racing engines to at least learn something useful (hopefully still managing a finish with an impending failure imminent) - although we will be stressing it more highly through increased revs etc (all within the rules). Inevitably will have to move up to the slightly larger 3.4 version (and even higher to bigger engines when the series allows them to compete) and expect more failures then. The scoring problem unfortunately will probably not form part of this plan at the race track until 3.6 and 3.8 engines (or 3.4 Cayman engines) are permitted in.
Already things like our deeper sump have been used successfully in the BRSCC series (and seems to be working OK in our cars as well - fingers crossed) but it is extremely difficult to find the resources to solve the problems of a major manufacturers product when they themselves seem not to have done. Furthermore some of the problems and causes we have already found require huge investment to replace and/or are handicapped by licences or patents held by one or two component suppliers to Porsche who may not make small quantities for us.
Hopefully you will understand that we put such a lot into this - we are not going to reveal all the results of our investigations and tests in these extremely expensive areas when it costs us so much to discover - but we will be working on the consequential solutions and make then available as soon as we possibly can.
In conclusion then - can I just say that it will help you if I advise that looking too long and hard at the Lokasil KS system etc - is actually a blind alley and not the main problem.
Baz
_____________
I can explain more by borrowing some points from a previous posting elsewhere as follows.
I think it is important for you all to understand - that a scored bore is simply the visible consequence of the fact that the piston has become damaged and is no longer serviceable. You cannot see the damage to the piston without stripping the engine but can see the results of it in the scored bores.
Bores can show lines and some marking and we have had some brought to us that others garages think are scored but all they saw was the reflection of light marking lines by the light on the camera and assumed it was scoring. It is quite difficult to be certain unless you have seen a lot of them - the camera distorts the view considerably.
We have invested thousands in finding the causes and testing solutions. The process of working through and testing things has enabled us now to understand the problem fully - what the causes actually are and what can be done about it.
We already have an excellent and reliable solution but although less than half the price of a new engine (and modified to improve reliability etc) it is quite expensive for many owners particularly as the value of the cars they could afford to buy reduces with age- so we continue to develop those solutions, improve tooling and production equipment to lower manufacturing costs and improve our rebuild options and products. There are still more under test and in development that will be available in the future to try and reduce the costs and improve the results still further.
So while reading and contemplating all the postings - please remember that it is the piston that starts the problem and that there are good repair options available that cost much less than a new engine - are better than a used one - from a source that is continually working hard to offer even better value in the years ahead as production volumes increase as more and more fail.
They are still brilliant cars to own and drive and prices are reasonable - but they do incorporate a technical weakness that gets exposed by those using the car in the way it should be able to handle reliably - either accelerating hard at low revs or driving very fast.
I guess if there was a throttle stop that could be set at say 1/4 throttle when accelerating from low revs and then say half to three quarters throttle at mid range to high rev - the engines may all survive.
Although there are plenty of owners who never drive at full throttle at high revs - the variable valve lift and cam timing make it difficult not to get high pistons face loads at low revs - even driven modestly.
As engines do not fail until relatively high mileages or years (averages of 40K+ and 4 years + say) testing different ideas is almost impossible without hard driving which is dangerous on public roads - so - we presently race 3.2 Boxster versions (same block and bore material etc) - as this is our way of performing that part of our testing program to identify weaknesses and causes in a safer environment more quickly as racing always exposes any weak areas quicker.
We are not going to learn anything unless we run the racing engines we build until they show signs of a failure - and we think we need to then strip and inspect them. So although it would be easy to rebuild them more frequently to avoid public failures - we have bigger issues to pursue and need to see what wears out first and what stops it.
We could have started with a 996 but thought it best to start with the slightly smaller version to hopefully get some mileages out of the racing engines to at least learn something useful (hopefully still managing a finish with an impending failure imminent) - although we will be stressing it more highly through increased revs etc (all within the rules). Inevitably will have to move up to the slightly larger 3.4 version (and even higher to bigger engines when the series allows them to compete) and expect more failures then. The scoring problem unfortunately will probably not form part of this plan at the race track until 3.6 and 3.8 engines (or 3.4 Cayman engines) are permitted in.
Already things like our deeper sump have been used successfully in the BRSCC series (and seems to be working OK in our cars as well - fingers crossed) but it is extremely difficult to find the resources to solve the problems of a major manufacturers product when they themselves seem not to have done. Furthermore some of the problems and causes we have already found require huge investment to replace and/or are handicapped by licences or patents held by one or two component suppliers to Porsche who may not make small quantities for us.
Hopefully you will understand that we put such a lot into this - we are not going to reveal all the results of our investigations and tests in these extremely expensive areas when it costs us so much to discover - but we will be working on the consequential solutions and make then available as soon as we possibly can.
In conclusion then - can I just say that it will help you if I advise that looking too long and hard at the Lokasil KS system etc - is actually a blind alley and not the main problem.
Baz
_____________
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