Are Tips much slower in real world driving?
Discussion
Ha ha - here we go again...
If you are buying new, it may lose a bit more money than a manual, but if buying used, it will already be cheaper - so you can rule that out.
As for actual real world driving, I think it's quicker - especially overtaking - and you can always use manual mode if you want a bit more involvement and control.
Test both and buy what you prefer, not what everyone else thinks you should have (a very emotive issue this one - do a search!)
If you are buying new, it may lose a bit more money than a manual, but if buying used, it will already be cheaper - so you can rule that out.
As for actual real world driving, I think it's quicker - especially overtaking - and you can always use manual mode if you want a bit more involvement and control.
Test both and buy what you prefer, not what everyone else thinks you should have (a very emotive issue this one - do a search!)
Tip for me in my future purchase. The missus wants it and seeing her ride the clutch in the 4x4 and Audi we have then thats fine with me!
Having just had a Boxster PDK (not exactly the same i know) but it spent 90% of its time in D. Found it just less hassle driving and as someone said for overtaking, mirror, signal and floor it.....whatever speed you are and whatever speed you want to end up!
Having just had a Boxster PDK (not exactly the same i know) but it spent 90% of its time in D. Found it just less hassle driving and as someone said for overtaking, mirror, signal and floor it.....whatever speed you are and whatever speed you want to end up!
doozy said:
sticks090460 said:
You go around for years saying manual gearbox is better/ more involving/ faster...... then you grow up.
I think you mean........then you grow old 
and realise how illogical a stick on the floor, taking one hand off the wheel, 3 pedals and all the drive being transmitted through a single thin piece of friction material is, when there is a much more modern, efficient and robust solution to do the same job
Answer to question - no.
Question you should have asked : Will I regret buying a Tip?
Answer to question - no (again).
Much more relaxed drive, easier and when you are stuck in a 5 mile jam approaching Le Mans or even Goodwood you will still be calm and rested whilst your fellow manual drivers will have burnt out their clutches and be fuming.
Oh, you have to put up with a bit of abuse from the naysayers on here but who cares.
If you are tracking your car however then a tip is a no-no-brainer IMHO!
Question you should have asked : Will I regret buying a Tip?
Answer to question - no (again).
Much more relaxed drive, easier and when you are stuck in a 5 mile jam approaching Le Mans or even Goodwood you will still be calm and rested whilst your fellow manual drivers will have burnt out their clutches and be fuming.
Oh, you have to put up with a bit of abuse from the naysayers on here but who cares.
If you are tracking your car however then a tip is a no-no-brainer IMHO!
Cmoose, Boxster aside, would you agree to what you said if it was a Turbo or C4S fitted with Tip?
I consider myself a competent driver, part of my job has been to road test and trial mil vehicles. And i used to go by the thinking that "autos are for 50yr old fat cats in Jags or Doris in her auto Metro going for her pension" and it was manual all the time for me.
But would it be right in saying that when you mention the dynamics of the car its the way it copes with everyday driving and when needed, its ability for both you and the car to push itself to the edge. If doing that means taking one of the aspects of driving the gear change away from the driver and allowing the driver to concentrate on the handling aspect then surely its a good thing. After all look at any modern F1 and Rally car then they have all gone to semi-auto keeping the drivers feet where they should be, either on the brake or accelerator. But i will have to say that the auto gearbox has to react in line with what the driver wants, which in some cases like the PDK i had the other week changed down a bit too easier than i would of liked. But is that because of my habits and thinking or that that the gearbox is better "at driving" than me?
I consider myself a competent driver, part of my job has been to road test and trial mil vehicles. And i used to go by the thinking that "autos are for 50yr old fat cats in Jags or Doris in her auto Metro going for her pension" and it was manual all the time for me.
But would it be right in saying that when you mention the dynamics of the car its the way it copes with everyday driving and when needed, its ability for both you and the car to push itself to the edge. If doing that means taking one of the aspects of driving the gear change away from the driver and allowing the driver to concentrate on the handling aspect then surely its a good thing. After all look at any modern F1 and Rally car then they have all gone to semi-auto keeping the drivers feet where they should be, either on the brake or accelerator. But i will have to say that the auto gearbox has to react in line with what the driver wants, which in some cases like the PDK i had the other week changed down a bit too easier than i would of liked. But is that because of my habits and thinking or that that the gearbox is better "at driving" than me?
Edited by petop on Sunday 1st April 17:17
anonymous said:
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What a load of nonsence. Apart from being a little more thirsty, an auto Boxster is still a fine sports car. Different to a manual, yes, but still 'finely honed' for people to whom 'driving dynamics' are important. Certainly not comparable to the above mentioned Mercedes or BMW in my opinion. The tip' gearbox, as has been discussed on here many times, has advantages and disdvantages but there's no way that it ruins a Boxster and can make such a car far easier to live with if you're going to have to spend a lot of your time in traffic. Cross country, I never found my auto 986s lacking in ability - it was far more proficient than me! The car also made good progress on the 'Ring, with good gear selection control available to the driver in 'M' mode. OP - if you're considering an auto against a manual car my advice is to try and drive both and make up your own mind. Just be prepared to learn the nuances of the Tip' so that you can get the best out of it.I personally think that if you drive a car for fun, then a tip is kind of pointless.
If you use it for commuting and want comfort (I happily commuted in my manual in London traffic so do not see what the big deal is) or if you are in a race (F1, DTM etc) then an automated transmission (be it a torque converter/PDK in case 1 or a sequential shift - or whatever they use nowadays - in case 2) is beneficial.
Nonetheless I think in your Boxster on the weekend blast on local country roads the manual will probably give you more satisfaction / involvement. Lots of people say that with the non-manual you can focus more on getting the apex right and lots of similar stuff , but who actually drives like that on the road ....
addendum: I also think people go faster in auto-trans to get more involvement, because otherwise it is broing (at least I do)
If you use it for commuting and want comfort (I happily commuted in my manual in London traffic so do not see what the big deal is) or if you are in a race (F1, DTM etc) then an automated transmission (be it a torque converter/PDK in case 1 or a sequential shift - or whatever they use nowadays - in case 2) is beneficial.
Nonetheless I think in your Boxster on the weekend blast on local country roads the manual will probably give you more satisfaction / involvement. Lots of people say that with the non-manual you can focus more on getting the apex right and lots of similar stuff , but who actually drives like that on the road ....
addendum: I also think people go faster in auto-trans to get more involvement, because otherwise it is broing (at least I do)
Edited by MDahmen on Sunday 1st April 17:54
I have a 2002 Boxster S tip and a TVR Chimaera.
Once you have driven the TVR and get back in the Boxster it feels like driving a Bentley in comparison when you relate effort to driving!
At first the tip takes a little getting used to. Mostly the changing down in to corners but after a while you kind of factor in the gear engagement to the change, where as of course usually it is determined by your left leg!
I still take the TVR on weekend hoons but if I had any distance to go I would definatly be choosing the Boxster.
Once you have driven the TVR and get back in the Boxster it feels like driving a Bentley in comparison when you relate effort to driving!
At first the tip takes a little getting used to. Mostly the changing down in to corners but after a while you kind of factor in the gear engagement to the change, where as of course usually it is determined by your left leg!
I still take the TVR on weekend hoons but if I had any distance to go I would definatly be choosing the Boxster.
anonymous said:
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I warned you... What a load of drivel... Do you actually know how a Tiptronic transmission works? Do you realise it is actually more of a mechanical linkage between engine and wheels than a manual, once it's in gear? The automatics of today are highly sophisticated and very efficient pieces of technology - they all have mechanical torque-converter lock-up clutches when they are actually in gear - and because these clutches don't have to be 'slipped' to change gear (the torque-converter does that), they don't wear out and are held with a higher force than can be achieved with a large friction disc operated mechanically by the driver! In fact, modern automatics are so efficient that many many cars now have lower emissions and better fuel economy in the automatic version, rather than the manual!
The ONLY reason for choosing a stick-shift manual for normal everyday road use, is purely personal preference and habit (and because you're a bit of a control-freak, maybe and don't trust the smoke and mirrors of electronically controlled devices?) There is no sound rational justification for it in any other way (especially if you are also rejecting PDK for the same reason - which IS a manual transmission) and the OP has already stated his personal preference is already for an Auto!!!
It is precisely this sort of emotive argument that holds back product development, by allowing market forces and accountants to strangle technical innovation and manufacturing advancements. There is a very good reason that Ferrari have finally dropped any manual (floor shift) transmissions from their entire product range: They just aren't as good - especially when it comes to high torque outputs.
anonymous said:
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OK, so we're down to semantics and definitions here: Most car manufacturers describe dual clutch transmissions as 'manuals' because the driver makes the decision when to change gear, rather than the electronics. In Porsche's PDK (as in most others) there is of course an 'automatic' mode, where a computer decides on the optimum time to change gear, rather than the driver. I am reasonably well versed on these things, being a graduate automotive engineer and having worked in the motor industry for over 30 years now - many of those years as an SME.anonymous said:
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So how is that a more pleasurable experience for someone who has already stated in the OP that he prefers an auto?anonymous said:
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What an arrogant opinionated point of view you have... Just because someone happens to have a different preference to you, doesn't make them wrong and you right!FYI I drove manual 911s for 9 years and well over 100,000 miles before I bought my current Tiptronic Turbo (and Audi quattros before that). I have also dabbled in racing and rallying in the past and I wouldn't go back to that old-fashioned clutch in, gear lever nonsense in anything other than a race car that had no steering wheel gear-shift option available (or within the rules). Ask any professional race or rally driver if they would choose a floor shift and clutch pedal over their electronic sequential boxes with steering wheel controls (or nearby short throw push/pull lever)? Bet there wouldn't be many takers on that one!!!
and, by the way, if you use a Tiptronic in manual mode (which I do whenever I'm having fun), you can still heel and toe and blip the throttle.
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