Asking any 997 Carrera S owners for advice...
Discussion
Hi guys, wondering if some input can help me make a decision on warranty.
I've just bought a 2005 Carrera S with around 37,000 miles. It had the bore scoring issue around 5,000 miles ago which led to engine failure and subsequent £16,000 engine replacement by OPC, which is still under warranty for another 4 months or so. Since this has happened and already been rectified in late 2010, how otherwise reliable are these cars. 2 year OPC warranty is coming out to £3,000 including front tyres needing to be changed first to match same N rating code to rears and another small issue.
My question to fellow owners is really to ask if it's the engine problem that's the main worry and reason people get the OPC warranty or is it common for electrics etc to play up in C2S at this age? Just not sure whether it is worth spending 3k on a warranty when if anything goes wrong (which probably won't be engine now give mechanical parts will be up to date (IMS setc)) would be cheaper to fix? Anyhow, sorry for long post, any advice on reliabilty from experience would hopefully help me make the decision.
Cheers in advance for advice.
I've just bought a 2005 Carrera S with around 37,000 miles. It had the bore scoring issue around 5,000 miles ago which led to engine failure and subsequent £16,000 engine replacement by OPC, which is still under warranty for another 4 months or so. Since this has happened and already been rectified in late 2010, how otherwise reliable are these cars. 2 year OPC warranty is coming out to £3,000 including front tyres needing to be changed first to match same N rating code to rears and another small issue.
My question to fellow owners is really to ask if it's the engine problem that's the main worry and reason people get the OPC warranty or is it common for electrics etc to play up in C2S at this age? Just not sure whether it is worth spending 3k on a warranty when if anything goes wrong (which probably won't be engine now give mechanical parts will be up to date (IMS setc)) would be cheaper to fix? Anyhow, sorry for long post, any advice on reliabilty from experience would hopefully help me make the decision.
Cheers in advance for advice.
Its a personal choice and only you can really decide if the warranty is value for you.
All I can say on the subject is that I will be renewing the warranty on my 06 C2 when it expires. So far it hasn't had any significant faults and I know the warranty ties me into OPC servicing too (expensive).
But I am happy with the choice
All I can say on the subject is that I will be renewing the warranty on my 06 C2 when it expires. So far it hasn't had any significant faults and I know the warranty ties me into OPC servicing too (expensive).
But I am happy with the choice
I'm new to a 997.2 C2S but had a 2.7 Cayman before.
From my perspective, and as mentioned above it's a personal choice, extending the warranty on the Cayman (which was bought from new) saved me a fortune in bits and peices around MOT time last year. I think a suspension upright alone covered the cost of 1 years warranty.
Add to that the concerns of another £16k engine bill, I don't know how people live without some sort of cover.
From my perspective, and as mentioned above it's a personal choice, extending the warranty on the Cayman (which was bought from new) saved me a fortune in bits and peices around MOT time last year. I think a suspension upright alone covered the cost of 1 years warranty.
Add to that the concerns of another £16k engine bill, I don't know how people live without some sort of cover.
Look at it this way: if you were the unlucky owner whom this happened to originally, would you have been comfortable paying a £16,000 bill because you didn't have the warranty?
Unless the replacement engine includes fixes for what caused the problem in the first place, then there is every chance it could happen again. That's not to say it will, but as with any insurance policy is it a risk you are willing to take?
Alternatively you could put money aside for a rainy day, but this requires discipline and a £16,000 bill for a daily driver is not something many people would be able to front without... discomfort.
Unless the replacement engine includes fixes for what caused the problem in the first place, then there is every chance it could happen again. That's not to say it will, but as with any insurance policy is it a risk you are willing to take?
Alternatively you could put money aside for a rainy day, but this requires discipline and a £16,000 bill for a daily driver is not something many people would be able to front without... discomfort.
In my experience with an '05 C2S I can't recommend the OPC warranty enough. Definitely provides peace of mind for hugely expensive items at an affordable price for me.
It is restrictive in that you can't put anything on the car (denison 500 for instance) but it covers you for so much... in the last 6 months and some 12k miles I've had a few new parts that list at over the value of the warranty, all repaired free. Consumables obviously aren't covered but you'll be struggling to get something as comprehensive for the money.
Worth checking out the competition obviously, but I for one would not be able to afford a 16k bill tomorrow very easily. 5k slush fund is about right for a car like this I think and that's more than most warranties on offer for this car.
If you can afford a 16k bill then it's just down to your risk algorithm really... hell 16k is half the car value surely?!
It is restrictive in that you can't put anything on the car (denison 500 for instance) but it covers you for so much... in the last 6 months and some 12k miles I've had a few new parts that list at over the value of the warranty, all repaired free. Consumables obviously aren't covered but you'll be struggling to get something as comprehensive for the money.
Worth checking out the competition obviously, but I for one would not be able to afford a 16k bill tomorrow very easily. 5k slush fund is about right for a car like this I think and that's more than most warranties on offer for this car.
If you can afford a 16k bill then it's just down to your risk algorithm really... hell 16k is half the car value surely?!
apart from engine issues the cars seem to be strong in other areas.being a new engine in 2010 it would have had the ims upgrade(upgraded 2006 model onwards)so imho the chances of ims failure are pretty slim compared to earlier models although it can still happen.the bore scoring is the more major worry but tends to happen on mileage over 30k or cars that suffer a lot of bore heat(see hartech site on causes).you can fit a low temperature thermostat that goes some way to preventing occurence.so you can get away with out a warranty if you want just put some money aside IF something happens.bore score doesnt mean a new engine.ring hartech for advice/low temp.thermostat
Oh I definitely would if it were a daily driver, but it's only going to be used 3-4,000 miles per year through weekend use hence the trouble in deciding.
From speaking with OPC and indys it seems if the engine was replaced around the time it was it would most definitely have had the amended parts used up to that year resulting in a very low risk of the same engine issue.
I had a CLK55 2004 before and I regret not having a warranty as so many electric things failed costing quite a lot over time. So it's this that's making me want to ask fellow owners whether they've had many things go wrong with theirs besides the engine?
From speaking with OPC and indys it seems if the engine was replaced around the time it was it would most definitely have had the amended parts used up to that year resulting in a very low risk of the same engine issue.
I had a CLK55 2004 before and I regret not having a warranty as so many electric things failed costing quite a lot over time. So it's this that's making me want to ask fellow owners whether they've had many things go wrong with theirs besides the engine?
I had 3 cars with the M96/7 engine - a 996.1 C4 a 996.2 C2 and a 997S.1. None of the engines ever gave me any issues despite my racking-up quite high miles and driving the wheels off them where appropriate. The only thing I did, other than Porsche scheduled maintenance, was more frequent oil changes.
Whils the engines were fine, 2 of the 3 cars needed gearboxes. The 'boxes in both the 996.1 and the 997S.1 had bearings let go and had to be replaced. About £2500 for a used 'box for the 996.1 (from memory) and getting-on for double that for a proper recon 'box for the 997. The 996.1 just went; the 997S.1 was caused by the dual-mass flywheel having seized - it had effectively become an out-of-balance single-mass and tore the 'box to bits. Ugh!
So from my wallet's experience, yes there's plenty more to get the warranty for than the engines - chocolate flywheels and gearboxes being the main ones!
Whils the engines were fine, 2 of the 3 cars needed gearboxes. The 'boxes in both the 996.1 and the 997S.1 had bearings let go and had to be replaced. About £2500 for a used 'box for the 996.1 (from memory) and getting-on for double that for a proper recon 'box for the 997. The 996.1 just went; the 997S.1 was caused by the dual-mass flywheel having seized - it had effectively become an out-of-balance single-mass and tore the 'box to bits. Ugh!
So from my wallet's experience, yes there's plenty more to get the warranty for than the engines - chocolate flywheels and gearboxes being the main ones!
I'd say that running an OPC warrantied 997 will cost you around £2000/year in fixed costs between the warranty and servicing: ~£1300 for warranty, assistance & check and around £1400 every two years for the service including the little extras. At an independent it will be more around the £700/year mark. Thats ~£1300 saved just there every year.
Given the recent work on your car its unlikely that the engine will blow again soon and, even if it did, I'd guess you wouldn't buy a new one from an OPC at £16k but rather you'd go for a specialist rebuild. This is more likely to cost in the region of £6~£7k.
Then you need to consider the 'exceptional maintenance items' such as clutch, brakes, etc. Example, is your clutch still the factory one? If so how much would it cost to have it replaced at an OPC vs specialist? My C4S came with £3k bill for new clutch and RMS seal from OPC. Assuming that this work would need to be done by OPCs to maintain the warranty validity then it would probably cost you 1.5x the amount a specialsit will charge. Consider what has been done on your car so far and how much extra it will cost you to have it done by an OPC. Obviously the lower the miles you do the less this will have an impact on a yearly saving.
A lot of people seem to say "my XXXX failed and it would have cost me £'000s to get it fixed at OPC", but what isn't considered is that OPCs aren't the only solution and that a good independent could do the same work for considerably less, thus negating some of the 'value' of the warranty.
Given the recent work on your car its unlikely that the engine will blow again soon and, even if it did, I'd guess you wouldn't buy a new one from an OPC at £16k but rather you'd go for a specialist rebuild. This is more likely to cost in the region of £6~£7k.
Then you need to consider the 'exceptional maintenance items' such as clutch, brakes, etc. Example, is your clutch still the factory one? If so how much would it cost to have it replaced at an OPC vs specialist? My C4S came with £3k bill for new clutch and RMS seal from OPC. Assuming that this work would need to be done by OPCs to maintain the warranty validity then it would probably cost you 1.5x the amount a specialsit will charge. Consider what has been done on your car so far and how much extra it will cost you to have it done by an OPC. Obviously the lower the miles you do the less this will have an impact on a yearly saving.
A lot of people seem to say "my XXXX failed and it would have cost me £'000s to get it fixed at OPC", but what isn't considered is that OPCs aren't the only solution and that a good independent could do the same work for considerably less, thus negating some of the 'value' of the warranty.
I don't believe in warranties. They aren't a charity and out to make a profit. I suspect most people with a warranty "need" parts replacing which generates more profit for the OPC and justifies the cost of the warranty to the owner. In exceptional circumstances the trade cost exceeds the warranty cost. If it gives you comfort then go for it. I haven't had one in three years and have only had to replace the battery which isn't covered. I do have it serviced at an OPC to maintain the service history and it works out cheaper than my old M3. They are well engineered cars and the horror stories may in part be caused by other factors such as thrashing from cold, not keeping the oil topped up etc. They are well engineered cars and shouldn't need it in my opinion. There are those who swear by them and that's fine - you pays your money and all that..
This is the sort of stuff that is putting me off a 997 c2s
I am looking at them at present because the cost of running a tuscan with 6k service intervals is sill when its used as a daily. I thought 997 would be the answer, but if i have to spend £2k pa on warranty then its hardly cost effective!
Is a 996tt more or less reliable?
I am looking at them at present because the cost of running a tuscan with 6k service intervals is sill when its used as a daily. I thought 997 would be the answer, but if i have to spend £2k pa on warranty then its hardly cost effective!
Is a 996tt more or less reliable?
sooty61 said:
Don't be put off. Although mine is only used at weekends it has cost less than £600 p.a. in servicing and consumables. I have covered about 8k miles in that time and it runs like a dream in all weathers. And that is OPC serviced.
I will be doing 15k pa, but its not servicing costs, thats what attarcts me as the Tusc would costs £1500 pa minimum at that mileage. I don't want to be paying £1k plus pa for a warranty. The tusc has a 5 year 100k mile engine warranty, I would like to think a 997 will go that far without major issuesBroccers said:
How much would a salvage engine be fitted? 8k? All very well having 3k warranties but as the car goes down in value it makes less sense.
Where did you get the figure of £3k?My warranty costs £900 per annum, breakdown is covered on my insurance cheaper than Porsche, hence slightly cheaper than it could be, but it's not £3k!
I have had my money's worth out of my warranty albeit on an 06 turbo bought last august. So far:-
1. Replacement radiator hoses and coupling as it was leaking, new radiators were fitted prior to my purchase as prep
2. Fix spoiler control unit failure
3. New starter motor
4. Replace tyre pressure monitoring controller
And the big current problem - broken engine mount which I have been advised is an engine out job. Car has not been tracked in my ownership and is a daily driver. Engine will be getting a proper check for any damage to turbos etc from mount snapping. I'll need a new PU at the rear as the engine drop has ripped the bumper.
The work above has been costed up at 8k if I was paying, caveat emptor without a warranty.
1. Replacement radiator hoses and coupling as it was leaking, new radiators were fitted prior to my purchase as prep
2. Fix spoiler control unit failure
3. New starter motor
4. Replace tyre pressure monitoring controller
And the big current problem - broken engine mount which I have been advised is an engine out job. Car has not been tracked in my ownership and is a daily driver. Engine will be getting a proper check for any damage to turbos etc from mount snapping. I'll need a new PU at the rear as the engine drop has ripped the bumper.
The work above has been costed up at 8k if I was paying, caveat emptor without a warranty.
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