High Mileage 997's - A good or bad idea!?
Discussion
There seem to be many early 997's popping up around the £24-25k mark with around 75-80k miles on the clock. If these cars have had full PSH would they be a good investment or still a money pit?
Heard a great deal about the engine problems but is this really that common as to drive someone away from owning a high miler?
Just wanted your consensus on these high milers really. In the past I have bought a few high mile BMW's, Mercs and Jaguar's - all circa 65-75k miles - I have driven them for a year and then sold on without hardly loosing any money and this seems a good way to have an experience of Porsche ownership too
Heard a great deal about the engine problems but is this really that common as to drive someone away from owning a high miler?
Just wanted your consensus on these high milers really. In the past I have bought a few high mile BMW's, Mercs and Jaguar's - all circa 65-75k miles - I have driven them for a year and then sold on without hardly loosing any money and this seems a good way to have an experience of Porsche ownership too
A reasonable investment? No.
A reasonable purchase? Yes, quite possibly. It remains a very modern prestige sports car for not a lot of money.
Buy a good one and it won't be a money pit - far from it actually - but it will still cost a bit to run.
(Do your own research on engine issues, and the liklihood of it happening, and make up your own mind how much of a risk it is)
A reasonable purchase? Yes, quite possibly. It remains a very modern prestige sports car for not a lot of money.
Buy a good one and it won't be a money pit - far from it actually - but it will still cost a bit to run.
(Do your own research on engine issues, and the liklihood of it happening, and make up your own mind how much of a risk it is)
Edited by monthefish on Monday 27th February 13:23
Sorry lads, seems as though I created some confusion by using the word investment.
The context I used it in was in relation to my comment of owning some very desirable high mileage cars for short periods of time (12-14 months) and then selling them off for hardly any loss.
A great example of this was a 2004 BMW 645ci Convertible which I bought in the winter 2 days after Xmas ran for 18 months and then sold it bang in the middle of summer for exactly what I bought it for. The only costs I had where 2 new rear tyres and tax (apart from the obvious fuel and insurance) - it was almost free motoring.
I was thinking of buying a high mileage 997 driving it for around a year and then selling it on. I don't expect to get back what I paid but probably a grand or so less but wondered what the pitfalls could be as not experienced any with the other brands I have experimented with.
A car which I would love to try this with is a Maserati Quattroporte but I am almost certain I will burn my fingers even if attempted so I firmly stay away from them
The context I used it in was in relation to my comment of owning some very desirable high mileage cars for short periods of time (12-14 months) and then selling them off for hardly any loss.
A great example of this was a 2004 BMW 645ci Convertible which I bought in the winter 2 days after Xmas ran for 18 months and then sold it bang in the middle of summer for exactly what I bought it for. The only costs I had where 2 new rear tyres and tax (apart from the obvious fuel and insurance) - it was almost free motoring.
I was thinking of buying a high mileage 997 driving it for around a year and then selling it on. I don't expect to get back what I paid but probably a grand or so less but wondered what the pitfalls could be as not experienced any with the other brands I have experimented with.
A car which I would love to try this with is a Maserati Quattroporte but I am almost certain I will burn my fingers even if attempted so I firmly stay away from them
crusty said:
Since when has 75K been high mileage?
+1I would reasonably expect these cars to go for 100s of thousands of miles. When it gets to 150K it might be a high miler.
These days many of these cars are used as every days motors, and hence they can easily do 10,000 a year. They can take it, they are not fragile delicate little things, they can take it. If a car has done plenty of motorway miles then the main components are hardly going to see any wear and it isn't going to suffer from being sat around which they really don't like.
Sounds like a top idea to me, but it will have to have plenty of miles on it to not loose too much, you don't want to be in the £1k a month club.
W4NTED said:
A great example of this was a 2004 BMW 645ci Convertible which I bought in the winter 2 days after Xmas ran for 18 months and then sold it bang in the middle of summer for exactly what I bought it for. The only costs I had where 2 new rear tyres and tax (apart from the obvious fuel and insurance) - it was almost free motoring.
To be honest, I think you got very lucky there, and I wouldn't expect that to happen again (with any other car). monthefish said:
To be honest, I think you got very lucky there, and I wouldn't expect that to happen again (with any other car).
Don't want to start a long winded argument here but if you play your cards right it certainly can be done. In the last 6-7 years I have managed to do this on the following cars (model year in brackets)BMW X5 3.0d Le Mans (2006)
BMW 130i M Sport (2006)
Audi Q7 3.0d TDI S line (2006)
Mercedes CLS500 (2005)
BMW 645ci Convertible (2004)
Jaguar XKR Convertible(2007)
BMW 535d M Sport (2007)
All these cars were bought privately from across the country so no auctions etc and then sold privately too so can't see why you thought I got lucky. It can be done and I am not the only person to have done it
I saw a 997 Carrera a couple of weeks ago. It was a 1 owner car from new in tobalt blue. Had 67k on the clock with full S/h - I was offered this car for £22k which is a bargain IMHO
I am sure I could have driven this for a year until around 75k miles and then flogged it for £21,500-22k again - I am absolutely certain I could have done this. I let the car go as I don't know much about Porsche's hence my post here
W4NTED said:
monthefish said:
To be honest, I think you got very lucky there, and I wouldn't expect that to happen again (with any other car).
Don't want to start a long winded argument here but if you play your cards right it certainly can be done. In the last 6-7 years I have managed to do this on the following cars (model year in brackets)BMW X5 3.0d Le Mans (2006)
BMW 130i M Sport (2006)
Audi Q7 3.0d TDI S line (2006)
Mercedes CLS500 (2005)
BMW 645ci Convertible (2004)
Jaguar XKR Convertible(2007)
BMW 535d M Sport (2007)
All these cars were bought privately from across the country so no auctions etc and then sold privately too so can't see why you thought I got lucky. It can be done and I am not the only person to have done it
I saw a 997 Carrera a couple of weeks ago. It was a 1 owner car from new in tobalt blue. Had 67k on the clock with full S/h - I was offered this car for £22k which is a bargain IMHO
I am sure I could have driven this for a year until around 75k miles and then flogged it for £21,500-22k again - I am absolutely certain I could have done this. I let the car go as I don't know much about Porsche's hence my post here
It's just that you have listed some of the highest depreciating cars and if you have genuinely run all of these cars for a significant period, and then sold them on again for what you've paid, you have done very well indeed, and should seriously consider a career in used car sales.
997s are following exactly the same curve as 996s. Indeed they are even cheaper like for like than 996s were at the same time. I bought my first 996 ('98 C2 M)when it was just over 10 years old. It had 64K on it and I paid £18,750 private sale. Hartech told me it was a good buy. Today I can buy a 997 that is just over 7 years old with 65K on the clock for a private sub 20 grand. I think 997s are cheaper like for like.
If you buy a 75K mile 997 I'd certainly try to get it under 20 grand depending on condition and I'd expect it to drop 10% in the first year. Pay 22 and expect to lose more.
993s are generally a better bet depreciation wise. Nodbody would disagree. 997s are better cars though
If you buy a 75K mile 997 I'd certainly try to get it under 20 grand depending on condition and I'd expect it to drop 10% in the first year. Pay 22 and expect to lose more.
993s are generally a better bet depreciation wise. Nodbody would disagree. 997s are better cars though
W4NTED said:
A great example of this was a 2004 BMW 645ci Convertible which I bought in the winter 2 days after Xmas ran for 18 months and then sold it bang in the middle of summer for exactly what I bought it for. The only costs I had where 2 new rear tyres and tax (apart from the obvious fuel and insurance) - it was almost free motoring.
Did it not need a service during those 18 months?
mollytherocker said:
Have you drunk a litre of vodka or something?! Try nearer £5k.
MTR
No, but I think you may have MTR
So you think if I bought a £22k 997 today, drove it for 12 months (put on 5-7k miles) and sell it I would get £17k for it? urm I dont think so pal.For the chap who asked about the 645ci servicing, no it didn't require a service as BMW's are condition based servicing. When I picked the car up it just had its brake fluid and oil service done. The next item due on the idrive was the brake fluid again which is done every 2 years. When I picked the car up front breaks were due in 34k miles and the rears in 39k miles, this hadn't changed much when I sold it on.
W4NTED, see your problem with this thread, on this forum, is that most of the people you're asking advice from have lost shed loads of money in depreciation on their cars.
Then you swan in giving it the old "I can run these cars for nowt like"
I don't doubt you can mate, but people on here won't like you for it
Honest advice, if you're paying 22k you're in for too much. If you can stand being hated by prospective sellers you need to go in low, say 500 above trade. Be prepared to be called a w
ker but you'll get a bite somewhere.
The problem is selling, Porsche buyers are a funny lot, they expect a low miles, low owner car with all the bills to prove its been kept in a heated garage, serviced by hans mezger himself & washed by the tears of virgins.
As a contrast, the cars you've sold in the past are easy to shift on with high miles, & actually have a perceived value in being high mileage(the average joe in the street thinks a BMW is just run in at those miles-rightly or wrongly).
Your problem is always going to be that someone who can afford a 17k car can realisticly afford a 20k car. & if yours is up for sale at 17 grand with 75k on the clock they'll likely just stretch the budget another 3 grand to buy the one with 55k on the clock, leaving yours unsold & costing you more in depreciation to get shot of it.
Be prepared to lose up to 5 grand on a high mileage 997 in 18 months I'd say, though like I said, if you buy cheaper-you'll do better, it hopefully wouldn't lose you that much but don't bank on it
Ps, nice cars though-certainly a nice way to spend 5 grand (or 12 if the engine goes pop
)
Then you swan in giving it the old "I can run these cars for nowt like"
I don't doubt you can mate, but people on here won't like you for it
Honest advice, if you're paying 22k you're in for too much. If you can stand being hated by prospective sellers you need to go in low, say 500 above trade. Be prepared to be called a w
ker but you'll get a bite somewhere.The problem is selling, Porsche buyers are a funny lot, they expect a low miles, low owner car with all the bills to prove its been kept in a heated garage, serviced by hans mezger himself & washed by the tears of virgins.
As a contrast, the cars you've sold in the past are easy to shift on with high miles, & actually have a perceived value in being high mileage(the average joe in the street thinks a BMW is just run in at those miles-rightly or wrongly).
Your problem is always going to be that someone who can afford a 17k car can realisticly afford a 20k car. & if yours is up for sale at 17 grand with 75k on the clock they'll likely just stretch the budget another 3 grand to buy the one with 55k on the clock, leaving yours unsold & costing you more in depreciation to get shot of it.
Be prepared to lose up to 5 grand on a high mileage 997 in 18 months I'd say, though like I said, if you buy cheaper-you'll do better, it hopefully wouldn't lose you that much but don't bank on it
Ps, nice cars though-certainly a nice way to spend 5 grand (or 12 if the engine goes pop
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