Possible way into cheap 993 ownership?

[BertBert]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...

I assume it can't be cat b, but if judged on condition, might be interesting as it probably won't make a lot of money.

Bert

[thegoose]

I agree this looked interesting, and then I found this:

HPi said:

Plate Transfer History
Current Plate since: 09/01/2007
Former VRM| Date Applied| Security Watch| Stolen| Finance| VCAR| Inspected
L954UOR 14/07/2006 0 0 0 1 0
H17YSP 23/05/2005 0 0 0 0 0
L954UOR 04/02/1994 0 0 0 1 0
A911 08/11/1993 0 0 0 0 0
L402ECF 28/09/1993 0 0 0 0 0
Recorded against previous VRM: L954UOR

VCAR
Former VRM Description Recorded on VCAR Date
L954UOR PORSCHE 911 Category B Insurance Loss. Bodyshell should have been crushed. Vehicle should not be on the road 17/05/2003

Sorry, the formatting is lost when pasting but the "1"s are under the VCAR column
(VRM=Vehicle Registration Mark, VCAR=Vehicle Condition Alert Register)

It seems odd that a vehicle that should have been crushed was able to have the current number plate applied to it nearly 3 years later and is currently taxed.

At the current sort of price it's worth a punt as it could be made into a track or race car, or broken, but it's got 9 days to go so will probably go for too much to an uninitiated buyer.

[POORCARDEALER]

CAT b IS PARTS ONLY, IT SHOULD NOT BE ON THE ROAD .

[993kimbo]

BertBert said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...

might be interesting as it probably won't make a lot of money.

Bert

Bert, it's on Ebay. It will probably be £29,867 at the close, all bids made in the last eight seconds. Ebay stinks nowadays.

[thegoose]

993kimbo said:

Bert, it's on Ebay. It will probably be £29,867 at the close, all bids made in the last eight seconds. Ebay stinks nowadays.

Would you still say it stinks if you were selling?

[BertBert]

well if it's actually cat b then it might be a different kettle of whatsits!

Does that make it illegal to be on the road? Or illegal to have put it back on the road or none of the above?

[993kimbo]

thegoose said:

Would you still say it stinks if you were selling?

Certainly not. Sour grapes and jealousy.

Edited by 993kimbo on Saturday 18th February 18:06

[thegoose]

BertBert said:

well if it's actually cat b then it might be a different kettle of whatsits!

Does that make it illegal to be on the road? Or illegal to have put it back on the road or none of the above?

Not sure, it's odd that DVLA allowed the current plate to be put on so long after it was declared Cat B, and then allowed it to be taxed. I've asked HPi to investigate.

I'm pretty sure that only licensed breakers can buy Cat B cars too (to regulate that they do get destroyed after being stripped for parts) so there may be an issue for whoever the first buyer of it was.

[POORCARDEALER]

Cat B cars are parts only, the shell should be crushed, and is not allowed to be removed from licenced breakers premises...proof of destruction has to be provided to the insurance company.


Cannot understand how it is taxed etc

[Thom987]

Some Cat B cars can go back on the road with nothing more than a VIC check. There is a Cat B 997 Gen 2 for sale on ebay at the minute.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-PORSCHE-911-997-CAR...

[Sifly]

Provided it checks out as legally repaired, it could make a great track car if it had been re-shelled. Not sure I'd be keen if the original damaged shell had been cut to bits (or in half) and repaired however!!

[thegoose]

Thom987 said:

Some Cat B cars can go back on the road with nothing more than a VIC check. There is a Cat B 997 Gen 2 for sale on ebay at the minute.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-PORSCHE-911-997-CAR...

This is wrong I'm afraid. The whole point of the different categories is to a) alert people to a vehicle's history and b) to determine what may or may not be done with it. Cat B is crush only, although parts can be removed first. Water damaged cars can be Cat B, so they look entirely undamaged but may not be safe due to possible water ingress causing internal corrosion or safety related electrical issues.


Regarding this car, I've just heard back from HPi, who contacted DVLA whilst I was on hold to verify things further.

Apparently the process for the ABI (Association of British Insurers) to automatically notify DVLA of Categorised write-offs only came in in 2004. This car was written off in 2003 (see HPi check details above) so didn't get notified, so DVLA have records against it, which is why they've allowed it to continue to be registered as normal (and have 2 cherished numbers applied).

So, whilst you could try and kick up a stink by finding which insurer sold it and getting that licensed salvage dealer (if they're still in business - it was 9 years ago) in to trouble for not crushing the shell, it won't gain you anything with regards to this car. It might be worth checking into those kind of details for the 997 quoted above though - something seems very wrong there.

So, this 993 will always show up as a "Cat B - must be crushed, should not be on the road" but can continue to be registered, taxed & used the same as any other car (although insuring may prove a challenge, unless under the umbrella of a trade or fleet policy). A strange anomaly. Would be ideal for race/track conversion or export, subject to inspection as with any 993.

[Thom987]

thegoose said:

Thom987 said:

Some Cat B cars can go back on the road with nothing more than a VIC check. There is a Cat B 997 Gen 2 for sale on ebay at the minute.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-PORSCHE-911-997-CAR...

This is wrong I'm afraid. The whole point of the different categories is to a) alert people to a vehicle's history and b) to determine what may or may not be done with it. Cat B is crush only, although parts can be removed first. Water damaged cars can be Cat B, so they look entirely undamaged but may not be safe due to possible water ingress causing internal corrosion or safety related electrical issues.

I am not wrong, the problem here is that it is a grey area and you will get different replies from the DVLA, depending on who you speak to. If you are correct then how come the car in the above link has been repaired and put back on the road?
We could talk all day about the rights and wrongs of this, but the DVLA need to look at this and clarify things. I am sure a search of ebay or autotrader will show a number of cat b cars that are in everyday use.

[headlesshorseman]

always makes me smile the topic of damaged cars as pointed out all a cat b needs is a vic check then its back on the road like a cat c i have had dozens of cat b vehicles mainly water damage,even a few brand new never been on the road vehicles.
i have exported a few that gets around the hpi marker of course the people who took them are fully aware of the status and got brand new vehicles for less than half the price.
but what makes me laugh is the use it as a track day car doing 8-9 tenths of a cars performance on a track seems more dangerous when its structual integrity is put to the limit or drive on the road where hardly anything like its performance is used.
as i said i am in the motor salvage industry so not worried by damaged vehicles but as always buyer beware.
and by the way the motor ins industry does not care all they care about is how much they get for the salvage,they sell your salvage cat A AND B to other countrys knowing full well that it will be back on the road because they get higher prices from euro bidders than from the uk

Edited by headlesshorseman on Monday 20th February 13:14

[BertBert]

Interesting. So what does the cat b status mean then?

[headlesshorseman]

BertBert said:

Interesting. So what does the cat b status mean then?

supposed to be for parts only then the shell crushed,you must have and licence to buy these vehicles like i have but only if your in the uk-but if you are in another country they will sell them to you without the atf licence.

[BertBert]

headlesshorseman said:

BertBert said:

Interesting. So what does the cat b status mean then?

supposed to be for parts only then the shell crushed,you must have and licence to buy these vehicles like i have but only if your in the uk-but if you are in another country they will sell them to you without the atf licence.

So if you are in the trade, have a licence and buy one, what forces the shell to be crushed? Or what allows it to be fixed and returned to the road?
Bert

[headlesshorseman]

BertBert said:

So if you are in the trade, have a licence and buy one, what forces the shell to be crushed? Or what allows it to be fixed and returned to the road?
Bert

if you put a cat b back on the road that ins company would not deal with you again or whatever auction house the salvage came from would ban you from its sales its a trust issue more than a legal one.most salvage yards have like me seen brand new cars with next to no damage come as cat b then a cat d so called light damage that look like they have been on the front line in afganistan is able to go back on the road there is no rhime or reason to the catorgory some cars are given.

[POORCARDEALER]

headlesshorseman said:

BertBert said:

So if you are in the trade, have a licence and buy one, what forces the shell to be crushed? Or what allows it to be fixed and returned to the road?
Bert

if you put a cat b back on the road that ins company would not deal with you again or whatever auction house the salvage came from would ban you from its sales its a trust issue more than a legal one.most salvage yards have like me seen brand new cars with next to no damage come as cat b then a cat d so called light damage that look like they have been on the front line in afganistan is able to go back on the road there is no rhime or reason to the catorgory some cars are given.

^^^^^ 100% correct.