My 991 test this morning
Discussion
I thought I'd share my thoughts on an hour's test drive I had this morning in the 991 C2S.
The car was equipped with Pirelli 20s, no PSE, no PDCC.
Lookswise, the front LEDs cutting into the bumper are growing on me. They add something to the personality. The rear I still find a bit challenging. I don't like that crease and I can't see why the rear LEDs have to copy a 10 year Aston Martin look. It feels bigger but only by a little.
Inside, the feel is different, but more subtly so than I expected from the pictures. The rake on the windscreen gives a much deeper dash, but the arrangement of buttons and the thickness of the fascia elements feels quite crowded. The centre console brings some crucial buttons (PASM, Sport, PSE) within easier reach and made a satisfying change. But the door cards are a mess.
The exhaust note is very different to my GTS. And in Sport mode, with the sound symposer pumping decibels into the rear of the car, sounds a trifle artificial. But the idea of only pumping the blips into the cabin and not the background drone is quite a neat one. I wish it sounded a little more real.
The car is more pointy than a 997. Presumably owing to the wider track. You really feel this extra width in the track and it is one of the most appealing features of the car. And there is far more of a feel of weight over the front wheels and less at the back, which I find surprising given the very minor shift in weight distribution brought about by the wheelbase change. I suspect it's more to do with suspension setup. The traditional pendulum dynamic is still there, but definitely to a much lesser degree. The car feels as though it is leaning eagerly on its front wheels. Interestingly, it feels bulkier than the GTS, despite being lighter.
The steering is satisfyingly firm on the straight ahead, far more than on the 997, and a reasonable amount of feedback on road conditions is delivered. This stiffness on the straight ahead is one of the key differentiators betwen the two cars. Feedback: Worse than a 997. Better than I feared. Meanwhile, on tight bends you can just detect a slight sense of alienation from the mechanical processes. Not as bad a BMW but definitely not as pure as previous iterations. An improvement? Certainly not.
The PDK, already superb in my GTS, has taken another step forward. It is honestly absolutely fantastic. The transitions are instantaneous and so well executed. The biggest plus point on the car.
But, here's the surprise. I've been reading countless reviews about how quiet and comfortable the 991 is. To put my observations in context, I have a GTS lowered 20mm with Sport Suspension, so I'm used to a firm ride with plenty of tyre noise. I was absolutely shocked to find that, on the Pirellis, no way was the 991 noticeably more comfortable or quieter than my GTS.
These cars aren't supposed to be about comfort, but I can't see in the published reviews any point on which the 991 stands apart from the 997 more than in the praise garnered for its ride comfort and suppression of road noise. Are the Pirellis to blame, or have the critics been hopping straight from a 930 into the 991?
My GTS is on compliant winter rubber at the moment and that may be temporarily warping my perspective, but I was expecting Mercedes like comfort from the all the praise heaped upon it. I've got to say this surprising observation really undermined my appreciation. I'd quite like a bit of B road compliance.
I made sure to hop back in the GTS right away and it immediately felt nimbler and more driver focused. Some of that may be down to familiarity, some to the hugging alcantara seats which I love.
Is the 991 a big step forward? Hmmm...It feels more like a step in tune with the times, a car focussed more on economy, safety and new markets. Do I want a 991? Amazingly, less so than I did before the test drive.
Would I take the opportunity to try one on Michelin PSSs with PDCC? Yes, I'd like to get to the bottom of the difference between my experience and all the reviews. Thoughts anyone?
The car was equipped with Pirelli 20s, no PSE, no PDCC.
Lookswise, the front LEDs cutting into the bumper are growing on me. They add something to the personality. The rear I still find a bit challenging. I don't like that crease and I can't see why the rear LEDs have to copy a 10 year Aston Martin look. It feels bigger but only by a little.
Inside, the feel is different, but more subtly so than I expected from the pictures. The rake on the windscreen gives a much deeper dash, but the arrangement of buttons and the thickness of the fascia elements feels quite crowded. The centre console brings some crucial buttons (PASM, Sport, PSE) within easier reach and made a satisfying change. But the door cards are a mess.
The exhaust note is very different to my GTS. And in Sport mode, with the sound symposer pumping decibels into the rear of the car, sounds a trifle artificial. But the idea of only pumping the blips into the cabin and not the background drone is quite a neat one. I wish it sounded a little more real.
The car is more pointy than a 997. Presumably owing to the wider track. You really feel this extra width in the track and it is one of the most appealing features of the car. And there is far more of a feel of weight over the front wheels and less at the back, which I find surprising given the very minor shift in weight distribution brought about by the wheelbase change. I suspect it's more to do with suspension setup. The traditional pendulum dynamic is still there, but definitely to a much lesser degree. The car feels as though it is leaning eagerly on its front wheels. Interestingly, it feels bulkier than the GTS, despite being lighter.
The steering is satisfyingly firm on the straight ahead, far more than on the 997, and a reasonable amount of feedback on road conditions is delivered. This stiffness on the straight ahead is one of the key differentiators betwen the two cars. Feedback: Worse than a 997. Better than I feared. Meanwhile, on tight bends you can just detect a slight sense of alienation from the mechanical processes. Not as bad a BMW but definitely not as pure as previous iterations. An improvement? Certainly not.
The PDK, already superb in my GTS, has taken another step forward. It is honestly absolutely fantastic. The transitions are instantaneous and so well executed. The biggest plus point on the car.
But, here's the surprise. I've been reading countless reviews about how quiet and comfortable the 991 is. To put my observations in context, I have a GTS lowered 20mm with Sport Suspension, so I'm used to a firm ride with plenty of tyre noise. I was absolutely shocked to find that, on the Pirellis, no way was the 991 noticeably more comfortable or quieter than my GTS.
These cars aren't supposed to be about comfort, but I can't see in the published reviews any point on which the 991 stands apart from the 997 more than in the praise garnered for its ride comfort and suppression of road noise. Are the Pirellis to blame, or have the critics been hopping straight from a 930 into the 991?
My GTS is on compliant winter rubber at the moment and that may be temporarily warping my perspective, but I was expecting Mercedes like comfort from the all the praise heaped upon it. I've got to say this surprising observation really undermined my appreciation. I'd quite like a bit of B road compliance.
I made sure to hop back in the GTS right away and it immediately felt nimbler and more driver focused. Some of that may be down to familiarity, some to the hugging alcantara seats which I love.
Is the 991 a big step forward? Hmmm...It feels more like a step in tune with the times, a car focussed more on economy, safety and new markets. Do I want a 991? Amazingly, less so than I did before the test drive.
Would I take the opportunity to try one on Michelin PSSs with PDCC? Yes, I'd like to get to the bottom of the difference between my experience and all the reviews. Thoughts anyone?
Very similar views to my own after a 3 hour drive in a 991 S with PDCC etc. etc.
For many of these same reasons I felt very comfortable ordering a built to order GTS4 for April delivery.
Yes, the 991 is definitely more refined than the 997, but only by loosing a big chunk of driver involvement and character in the process. With regards to reduced tyre noise only became aware of this during 70mph cruise on dual carriageway.
It is, to me, a very different car to the 997. Think this is why it is hard to directly compare the two.
For many of these same reasons I felt very comfortable ordering a built to order GTS4 for April delivery.
Yes, the 991 is definitely more refined than the 997, but only by loosing a big chunk of driver involvement and character in the process. With regards to reduced tyre noise only became aware of this during 70mph cruise on dual carriageway.
It is, to me, a very different car to the 997. Think this is why it is hard to directly compare the two.
MATT993 said:
Very similar views to my own after a 3 hour drive in a 991 S with PDCC etc. etc.
For many of these same reasons I felt very comfortable ordering a built to order GTS4 for April delivery.
Yes, the 991 is definitely more refined than the 997, but only by loosing a big chunk of driver involvement and character in the process. With regards to reduced tyre noise only became aware of this during 70mph cruise on dual carriageway.
It is, to me, a very different car to the 997. Think this is why it is hard to directly compare the two.
Interesting thing to me was that I didn't really find it more refined (see my comments on comfort and tyre noise)For many of these same reasons I felt very comfortable ordering a built to order GTS4 for April delivery.
Yes, the 991 is definitely more refined than the 997, but only by loosing a big chunk of driver involvement and character in the process. With regards to reduced tyre noise only became aware of this during 70mph cruise on dual carriageway.
It is, to me, a very different car to the 997. Think this is why it is hard to directly compare the two.
Agreed, maybe I should of said a little more refined than the GTS, but a lot more than my 993!!
I was expecting to be blown away by my 991 drive, but just wasn't, my GTS4 test drive made a much bigger impression.
I have specced the -20mm suspension for my GTS4, any major reason not to have it? Not many GTS's with this.
It is a 'free' option with the 4 anyway, since the LSD is already fitted.
I was expecting to be blown away by my 991 drive, but just wasn't, my GTS4 test drive made a much bigger impression.
I have specced the -20mm suspension for my GTS4, any major reason not to have it? Not many GTS's with this.
It is a 'free' option with the 4 anyway, since the LSD is already fitted.
I agree with much of what the OP wrote,the ride is not substantially better than a 997 ,the pdk box is brilliant,the handling is excellent ,and the steering is fine,maybe less detail in it,but enough feel to be satisfying.I enjoyed the noise,much better than any 997 bar the gt3 versions.Overall it is a fantastic car.
I went into an r8 from a 997 turbo and when they released the gen2 997s I got invited to silverstone ,and to be honest I thought the r8 made the 997 gen 2s look and feel a bit past it,(exception being the gt3s) ,as an overall package porsche has cuaght up and moved the game on slightly with the new 991 imho.
I went into an r8 from a 997 turbo and when they released the gen2 997s I got invited to silverstone ,and to be honest I thought the r8 made the 997 gen 2s look and feel a bit past it,(exception being the gt3s) ,as an overall package porsche has cuaght up and moved the game on slightly with the new 991 imho.
MATT993 said:
Agreed, maybe I should of said a little more refined than the GTS, but a lot more than my 993!!
I was expecting to be blown away by my 991 drive, but just wasn't, my GTS4 test drive made a much bigger impression.
I have specced the -20mm suspension for my GTS4, any major reason not to have it? Not many GTS's with this.
It is a 'free' option with the 4 anyway, since the LSD is already fitted.
I have this option and it makes for a lovely purposeful stance and a great connection with the road. Ride-wise, it is about halfway between PASM normal and PASM sport on a standard 997, which is, for me, just the right balance. When you get "tuned in" on a run the feedback is sublime.I was expecting to be blown away by my 991 drive, but just wasn't, my GTS4 test drive made a much bigger impression.
I have specced the -20mm suspension for my GTS4, any major reason not to have it? Not many GTS's with this.
It is a 'free' option with the 4 anyway, since the LSD is already fitted.
You will miss out on the GTS-specific suspension tweaks which probably add a little more compliance but I don't think you'll notice it most of the time. And after 7-10,000 miles you can get an alignment done to tweak to your preference anyway. It makes a big difference. Enjoy your lovely new car. It's certainly going to be a bargain next to the 991.
Great write-up. Useful to get a different perspective. I know I should try one but not sure I can be arsed. It's not like I'll buy one anyway! The bits I like most about mine (steering feel, short-shift manual transmission and general seat of the pants feel) seem to be less good in the new car. And the things I couldn't give two hoots about (lower NVH, improved PDK, improved Nurburgring lap time, fiddlier but better quality buttons) are not worth changing for. And that picture deteriorates massively when you factor in cost to change!
Edited by J-P on Thursday 2nd February 18:25
J-P said:
Great write-up. Useful to get a different perspective. I know I should try one but not sure I can be arsed. It's not like I'll buy one anyway! The bits I like most about mine (steering feel, short-shift manual transmission and general seat of the pants feel) seem to be less good in the new car. And the things I couldn't give two hoots about (lower NVH, improved PDK, improved Nurburgring lap time, fiddlier but better quality buttons) are not worth changing for. And that picture deteriorates massively when you factor in cost to change!
Hi J-PEdited by J-P on Thursday 2nd February 18:25
I still can't get over how poor the NVH was compared to the write-ups. Can it be all down to the Pirellis on today's test car? Were the release cars on MPSSs to positively influence the critic's response I wonder?
Sport Auto reported about the same tyre where, the 991 put in one of the worst wet handling times in recent history.
These tyres appear to not work well at all in cold conditions and could be a warm weather only tyre.
It also explains the glowing reviews about the lack of tyre noise on the tests conducted in South Cal.
betternotbigger said:
J-P said:
Great write-up. Useful to get a different perspective. I know I should try one but not sure I can be arsed. It's not like I'll buy one anyway! The bits I like most about mine (steering feel, short-shift manual transmission and general seat of the pants feel) seem to be less good in the new car. And the things I couldn't give two hoots about (lower NVH, improved PDK, improved Nurburgring lap time, fiddlier but better quality buttons) are not worth changing for. And that picture deteriorates massively when you factor in cost to change!
Hi J-PEdited by J-P on Thursday 2nd February 18:25
I still can't get over how poor the NVH was compared to the write-ups. Can it be all down to the Pirellis on today's test car? Were the release cars on MPSSs to positively influence the critic's response I wonder?
J-P said:
Good question. There's no doubt that pretty much every report I've read other than yours suggests significantly improved NVH. It'll be interesting to see how these views develop over time with different rubber!
I suffer from tinnitus owing to too many visits to the Hacienda in my youth and it's made me very sensitive to NVH (as well as Salford drug wars). I was really hoping it would be much improved.My thoughts on the 991 test drive I had were a little different. I thought the cabin was a triumph. Clearly 911 but with hugely improved materials throughout, loved the raise console too. Its a funny how we all see things differently but I think the front remains slightly boringly 911 generic but the rear is lovely. Saying it looks a bit like an Aston is not a vicious insult if you ask me.The new 20" wheels also look great. Other strengths - definitely more roomy, more comfy and far more modern. So, all good do far. Felt very much more pointy than even a GT3 and I felt the steering was excellent. No bobbing around a la 997 maybe but very, very good. Supple but well controlled. The test car I was in had PDK without the proper paddles and 2 things to say. Porsches original paddles are truly useless and its a mark of amazing arrogance they ever felt that they knew best. The box itself is very good and has good manners at low speeds but its still not a patch on the simply brilliant GR6 box in a Nissan GTR. Its too smooth and it doesn't add to the excitement like the GTR does. I dont think its as effective either.
Personally, I think the F1-S box in the Scuderia is much more fun to use too which is food for thought. I thought the sound was great too and I personally didn't feel it felt in anyway contrived just obviously a pale shadow of the sound of any Ferrari (Especially the hardcore ones) or incidentally the Mezger 6 in the gen2 GT3RS. BUT its the cooking model in a wide range of likely models and there has to be room for them to move things on.GT3 and no doubt GTS will be better yet.
But the deal killer for me is that the reasonably well specced car I was driving costs,, ahem,,,
£95,500!!!
I may be wrong but I honestly think thats overcooked and owners are going to take an absolute bath on them. (Unless Porsche restrict supply and they clearly have no intention of doing so)
Personally, I think the F1-S box in the Scuderia is much more fun to use too which is food for thought. I thought the sound was great too and I personally didn't feel it felt in anyway contrived just obviously a pale shadow of the sound of any Ferrari (Especially the hardcore ones) or incidentally the Mezger 6 in the gen2 GT3RS. BUT its the cooking model in a wide range of likely models and there has to be room for them to move things on.GT3 and no doubt GTS will be better yet.
But the deal killer for me is that the reasonably well specced car I was driving costs,, ahem,,,
£95,500!!!
I may be wrong but I honestly think thats overcooked and owners are going to take an absolute bath on them. (Unless Porsche restrict supply and they clearly have no intention of doing so)
Diamond blue said:
I may be wrong but I honestly think thats overcooked and owners are going to take an absolute bath on them. (Unless Porsche restrict supply and they clearly have no intention of doing so)
I suspect that the market will mean that far fewer 991s are sold than 997s anyway.Go to any OPC, they each have at least 2, if not 3, 991s in the showroom, available now. No wait.
Nothing like the Cayenne ...
Judging by the red carpet treatment I received on arrival at the OPC they must be selling in very small numbers. Leeds OPC employs some very lovely girls to help you part with your money. And a free eccles cake.
Still didn't work. Either I'm too old to run after pretty girls or the 991 didn't do enough for me.
Still didn't work. Either I'm too old to run after pretty girls or the 991 didn't do enough for me.
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