Discussion
When the RS2 came out back in 94 or so, I wanted one. Trouble is, I was 15. Then, when the RS4 was released in 2000 I wanted one of those too. That crazy combination of incredible power and traction that you'd would only usually find in a Porsche 911, Ferrari or similar, but wrapped up in a German estate car - awesome, understated performance. 
Still I was in my early 20s and learning stuff and trying to forge my way in life was declared to be a more sensible use of time and money than splaffing £60k on a load lugger.
I've alway wanted a Lotus Carlton too, but I realise that these are actually a s
t car underneath, so I can happily just leave the LC as a dream 
So on finding a few grand down the back of the sofa recently, I went out and bought a nice tidy 2001 RS4. It had to be red, as that's the fastest colour.
Like a lot of RS4s, it's been tuned. An MTM chip and exhaust allegedly gives the car 428 bhp and some massive 380mm MOVIT brakes slow it down again. It is extremely fast. It handles very well although, admittedly, it doesn't have the finesse of a BMW M car. I like it
Still I was in my early 20s and learning stuff and trying to forge my way in life was declared to be a more sensible use of time and money than splaffing £60k on a load lugger.I've alway wanted a Lotus Carlton too, but I realise that these are actually a s
t car underneath, so I can happily just leave the LC as a dream So on finding a few grand down the back of the sofa recently, I went out and bought a nice tidy 2001 RS4. It had to be red, as that's the fastest colour.
Like a lot of RS4s, it's been tuned. An MTM chip and exhaust allegedly gives the car 428 bhp and some massive 380mm MOVIT brakes slow it down again. It is extremely fast. It handles very well although, admittedly, it doesn't have the finesse of a BMW M car. I like it
NotNormal said:
Muppet32 said:
I've alway wanted a Lotus Carlton too, but I realise that these are actually a st car underneath,
Not sure what your basing this opinion on. t car underneath, 
All cars have their known faults, including the B5 RS4
Chicane-UK said:
Stunning! I've only heard / read of a few people with these but heard they can be scarily expensive to fix if they break. Hope you've got a few more grand down the back of the sofa just in case...?
K04 turbos are something like £800 each from Audi, which has encouraged lots of people to go Garrett GT series when they go pop. A lot of work is engine-out which increases the price if your not doing it at home.russy01 said:
NotNormal said:
Muppet32 said:
I've alway wanted a Lotus Carlton too, but I realise that these are actually a st car underneath,
Not sure what your basing this opinion on. t car underneath, All cars have their known faults, including the B5 RS4
In terms of the bits Lotus added to the Carlton - they were top notch and extremely well engineered but underneath, it's still a mid market GM rustbucket from the late 80s. You'll struggle to find an LC that hasn't been affected by tin worm and generally, the engineering that went into the rest of the 'Carlton' bits is err, lacklustre. Door hinges that click, poor interior trim, poor panel gaps, vauxhall switchgear etc.It's still a phenomenal car, but those elements would spoil the experience for me.
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
Muppet32 said:
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
I didn't know that S/RS4's had brittle camshafts. I'm sure people have pushed silly power out of the standard ones. The Tiptronic box, however...my mates dad has a Tiptronic S4 and he's "killed" the box more than once.Muppet32 said:
My original comment about the Lotus Carlton was a bit tongue in cheek. In terms of the bits Lotus added to the Carlton - they were top notch and extremely well engineered but underneath, it's still a mid market GM rustbucket from the late 80s. You'll struggle to find an LC that hasn't been affected by tin worm and generally, the engineering that went into the rest of the 'Carlton' bits is err, lacklustre. Door hinges that click, poor interior trim, poor panel gaps, vauxhall switchgear etc.
It's still a phenomenal car, but those elements would spoil the experience for me.
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
So basically your trying to compare a car designed and built 20 years ago to one that that was built only 10 years ago. Mmm, how odd In terms of the bits Lotus added to the Carlton - they were top notch and extremely well engineered but underneath, it's still a mid market GM rustbucket from the late 80s. You'll struggle to find an LC that hasn't been affected by tin worm and generally, the engineering that went into the rest of the 'Carlton' bits is err, lacklustre. Door hinges that click, poor interior trim, poor panel gaps, vauxhall switchgear etc.It's still a phenomenal car, but those elements would spoil the experience for me.
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
But yes appreciate that finding a good LC these days is harder than finding a good RS4. Which I think is a shame really as people like yourself come up with comments as above based on viewings of un-cared for cars with many years already under their belt.
Congrats on the purchase though, btw my friend used to work for QST for many years so I know how fast these cars can go with some fettling.
ManOpener said:
Chicane-UK said:
Stunning! I've only heard / read of a few people with these but heard they can be scarily expensive to fix if they break. Hope you've got a few more grand down the back of the sofa just in case...?
K04 turbos are something like £800 each from Audi, which has encouraged lots of people to go Garrett GT series when they go pop. A lot of work is engine-out which increases the price if your not doing it at home.If a turbo goes then both must be changed, they are £1200 each and you can add another £1200 in labour for the engine pull required to get to them. Whilst the engine is out you might as well break the gearbox and do the clutch too. Thankfully that's only £150. Mine had the newer B7 brakes on the front which meant £250 per front disk and £150 for a set of pads, rears arn't much cheaper, £215 a disk and £80 for pads. I had to deal with all of the above. Plus silly things like the airbag ecu (£380). Nothing on these cars is cheap, as soon as RS is mentioned the part prices go up by 200%. They can have syncro issues and quite a few are suffering from camshaft failure, luckily neither of these effected mine.
On the bright side they are very very quick. Mine had 420bhp and in a straight line was ballistic, unfortunately it all fell apart in the corners, it really wasn't up to much on a twisty road. Once the excitement of the acceleration wore off it really didn't have much more to offer. I sold it and bought an Elise which is a much more involving drive.
Edited by GregorFuk on Tuesday 22 June 22:52
NotNormal said:
Muppet32 said:
My original comment about the Lotus Carlton was a bit tongue in cheek. In terms of the bits Lotus added to the Carlton - they were top notch and extremely well engineered but underneath, it's still a mid market GM rustbucket from the late 80s. You'll struggle to find an LC that hasn't been affected by tin worm and generally, the engineering that went into the rest of the 'Carlton' bits is err, lacklustre. Door hinges that click, poor interior trim, poor panel gaps, vauxhall switchgear etc.
It's still a phenomenal car, but those elements would spoil the experience for me.
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
So basically your trying to compare a car designed and built 20 years ago to one that that was built only 10 years ago. Mmm, how odd In terms of the bits Lotus added to the Carlton - they were top notch and extremely well engineered but underneath, it's still a mid market GM rustbucket from the late 80s. You'll struggle to find an LC that hasn't been affected by tin worm and generally, the engineering that went into the rest of the 'Carlton' bits is err, lacklustre. Door hinges that click, poor interior trim, poor panel gaps, vauxhall switchgear etc.It's still a phenomenal car, but those elements would spoil the experience for me.
I appreciate the B5 RS4 certainly has its problems from turbo wear to chocolate cams and gearbox problems etc, but as they're based on a high end, arguably over engineered vehicle in the first place, they don't generally rust and there is an overall feel of granite like sturdiness about the car.
But yes appreciate that finding a good LC these days is harder than finding a good RS4. Which I think is a shame really as people like yourself come up with comments as above based on viewings of un-cared for cars with many years already under their belt.
My views are nothing to do with ill-cared for cars, but a reasonable technical observation of Carltons and A4s.
All that aside, I'd still love a Lotus Carlton - mostly due to its rarity. I'd have to shut my eyes when looking at the dashboard though
GregorFuk said:
ManOpener said:
Chicane-UK said:
Stunning! I've only heard / read of a few people with these but heard they can be scarily expensive to fix if they break. Hope you've got a few more grand down the back of the sofa just in case...?
K04 turbos are something like £800 each from Audi, which has encouraged lots of people to go Garrett GT series when they go pop. A lot of work is engine-out which increases the price if your not doing it at home.If a turbo goes then both must be changed, they are £1200 each and you can add another £1200 in labour for the engine pull required to get to them. Whilst the engine is out you might as well break the gearbox and do the clutch too. Thankfully that's only £150. Mine had the newer B7 brakes on the front which meant £250 per front disk and £150 for a set of pads, rears arn't much cheaper, £215 a disk and £80 for pads. I had to deal with all of the above. Plus silly things like the airbag ecu (£380). Nothing on these cars is cheap, as soon as RS is mentioned the part prices go up by 200%. They can have syncro issues and quite a few are suffering from camshaft failure, luckily neither of these effected mine.
On the bright side they are very very quick. Mine had 420bhp and in a straight line was ballistic, unfortunately it all fell apart in the corners, it really wasn't up to much on a twisty road. Once the excitement of the acceleration wore off it really didn't have much more to offer. I sold it and bought an Elise which is a much more involving drive.
Edited by GregorFuk on Tuesday 22 June 22:52
To run one of these you either need deep pocket or a good chunk of initiative.
It is defintitely fast - I don't think any right minded individual would dispute that. It does corner very effectively, but it's not very communicative or particularly rewarding. An Elise would certainly be considerably more involving. But as they share indicator stalks with the Cavalier, they have to be discounted from this discussion
420 said:
hmm, notnormal you do seem like a good old boy an LC hasn't exactly got the mint factor of an RS4 for me personally, that aside this is his progress blog so keep it civil and resrained at all times?, have a look at my blog
A nice LC is far mor exclusive than an RS4. Don't worry about attacking my argument - you have to say some things to get a response sometimes Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff