Modified Ferrari 348
Discussion
Preface: For those of you about to read this thread, as it's a long read, here's a brief summary.
The thread is about my 348 which I purchased standard and then started to modify it. First with a few minor changes like wheels, seats etc and then getting hold of a custom 348 race engine (480bhp) that was raced at Le Mans in the early 90's.
We attempted to turn it into a road going race car but had many setbacks and things didn't turn out as expected.
Thanks for reading.
...................................
Here's my 348.
I've had it over 3 years now. The plan was to keep it original, but one thing led to another ............
Here's what it looked like when I first got it
I test drove a Ferrari 360 last year as I considered "upgrading", but didn't bond with it, prefering the raw feel of the 348.
I then got the itch to start modifying it. I started with 360 Carbon Sports seats, 360 Challenge Steering wheel, carbon bits for the interior and engien bay and some bits of trim from Hill Engineering. Recently I installed 6 pot AP RAcing brakes, red Schroth seat harnesses and a F355 front bonnet vent.
I did consider putting in a 360 engine, but it would ahve been too much work. Plus I would ahve had to probably turn it into a hatchback like the 360 and the engine is quite high. The other option is to put 355 plenums on the engine which would boost it to between 380 and 400 bhp. Haven't decided wether to do that yet.
A friend and I even took the engine out out and changed many of the parts. New water pump, silicon hoses instead of rubber ones and uprated spark plugs and leads.
Here's the engien after we washed it.
And after it was put in.
Before we took the engine out, I took it to a rolling road and it only had 304 bhp. It should have been 320 bhp, but asit was 12 years old I considered it to be wear and tear. Oh well........
After we put the engine back in, I had it put on a hub dyno and saw the bhp increase by around 37 bhp.
On day i was in WH Smiths and browsing through the magazine as we all do.
I picked up a rather large compendium which listed all the Ferarri models at teh back. Guess who's car was under the 348 heading.
Why is it called the 348 Scuderia? I'd been considering putting a stripe on it, but could never decide which type. A few months ago, a friend of mine picked up a 430 Scuderia and I asked him to measure the stripe for me. I then had a vinyl company make up a stripe and put it on the 348. Hence why some refer to it as the 348 Scuderia.
I wasn't sure at first, but I really like it now. Going to have it painted on next year when it goes in for a full respray.
Andy's Scuderia from which the stripe was copied.
Coupel of weeks ago I came across this black 430 scuderia. Fantastic machines, but way out of my price league. I worked out that my 348 was 13% of the value of teh black scud.
Anyone know the Lotto numbers for friday???
Video of the the 348 going around Northe Weald Airfield. It did a lap in the exact same time as a Lous Elise 111R. Both driven by Andy Walsh. Whilst the Elise has a snappy oversteer, this particular 348 has a lot of understeer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Cxmt8y8_o
Recent video posted by someone when I was at a Scudrunners meet in Hurley two weeks ago.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AaD1GC23QOs&fmt=...
Me chasing a friends 355 at Abbeville track day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnH88aXEUG4
Not a video of my 348, but a compilation of clips from Ferrari meets I've attended over the last few years.
http://www.fgear.tv/sr1.php
The thread is about my 348 which I purchased standard and then started to modify it. First with a few minor changes like wheels, seats etc and then getting hold of a custom 348 race engine (480bhp) that was raced at Le Mans in the early 90's.
We attempted to turn it into a road going race car but had many setbacks and things didn't turn out as expected.
Thanks for reading.
...................................
Here's my 348.
I've had it over 3 years now. The plan was to keep it original, but one thing led to another ............
Here's what it looked like when I first got it
I test drove a Ferrari 360 last year as I considered "upgrading", but didn't bond with it, prefering the raw feel of the 348.
I then got the itch to start modifying it. I started with 360 Carbon Sports seats, 360 Challenge Steering wheel, carbon bits for the interior and engien bay and some bits of trim from Hill Engineering. Recently I installed 6 pot AP RAcing brakes, red Schroth seat harnesses and a F355 front bonnet vent.
I did consider putting in a 360 engine, but it would ahve been too much work. Plus I would ahve had to probably turn it into a hatchback like the 360 and the engine is quite high. The other option is to put 355 plenums on the engine which would boost it to between 380 and 400 bhp. Haven't decided wether to do that yet.
A friend and I even took the engine out out and changed many of the parts. New water pump, silicon hoses instead of rubber ones and uprated spark plugs and leads.
Here's the engien after we washed it.
And after it was put in.
Before we took the engine out, I took it to a rolling road and it only had 304 bhp. It should have been 320 bhp, but asit was 12 years old I considered it to be wear and tear. Oh well........
After we put the engine back in, I had it put on a hub dyno and saw the bhp increase by around 37 bhp.
On day i was in WH Smiths and browsing through the magazine as we all do.
I picked up a rather large compendium which listed all the Ferarri models at teh back. Guess who's car was under the 348 heading.
Why is it called the 348 Scuderia? I'd been considering putting a stripe on it, but could never decide which type. A few months ago, a friend of mine picked up a 430 Scuderia and I asked him to measure the stripe for me. I then had a vinyl company make up a stripe and put it on the 348. Hence why some refer to it as the 348 Scuderia.
I wasn't sure at first, but I really like it now. Going to have it painted on next year when it goes in for a full respray.
Andy's Scuderia from which the stripe was copied.
Coupel of weeks ago I came across this black 430 scuderia. Fantastic machines, but way out of my price league. I worked out that my 348 was 13% of the value of teh black scud.
Anyone know the Lotto numbers for friday???
Video of the the 348 going around Northe Weald Airfield. It did a lap in the exact same time as a Lous Elise 111R. Both driven by Andy Walsh. Whilst the Elise has a snappy oversteer, this particular 348 has a lot of understeer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Cxmt8y8_o
Recent video posted by someone when I was at a Scudrunners meet in Hurley two weeks ago.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AaD1GC23QOs&fmt=...
Me chasing a friends 355 at Abbeville track day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnH88aXEUG4
Not a video of my 348, but a compilation of clips from Ferrari meets I've attended over the last few years.
http://www.fgear.tv/sr1.php
Edited by Angelis on Tuesday 12th February 22:53
I've never liked the 348, it had a terrible time, following in the footsteps of the 308/328, then being followed by the stunning 355!
I really like yours though the change of wheels and the stripe also the dark colour instead of the usual Ferrari red, and the modifications to brakes interior etc most admirable! From your pics I cannot believe how big the 430 is compared with the 348! What is the weight of the 348 compared with the 430?
Good effort chap
.....slopes off the the classified to find the price of 348's!
I really like yours though the change of wheels and the stripe also the dark colour instead of the usual Ferrari red, and the modifications to brakes interior etc most admirable! From your pics I cannot believe how big the 430 is compared with the 348! What is the weight of the 348 compared with the 430?
Good effort chap
.....slopes off the the classified to find the price of 348's!
Thanks guys.
One important thing it did teach me was that a Ferrari at the end of the day is just like any other car. It's engine is just like any other car. Only difference is that some parts are bloody sight more expensive!!!!
When I first got it, I had never worked on a car before. Now I can do a full oil change and manage to fix some minor faults myself. Thanks to various forums and other owners, there's a great support structure for the 348. Probably the best one around for a particular Ferrari model.
Here's some of the things that were changed and fixed over the last few years.
The suspension needed work. The dampers were sent of to Bilstein to have them refurbished a year earlier. Bilstein told me that Ferrari dampers should refurbished every 3 years. Not sure if I believed them, but mine hadn't been done in over 12 years at that point. Cost £60 plus vat for each damper.
The rubber bushes in the suspension had rotted away. Couldn't get 348 ones so got 355 bushes which were 20% stiffer. Cost around £650. A year later a mate of mine had soem poly bushes made up that cost less than £200.
Brake discs needed replacing as well. Cost £75 each.
Decided to change the suspension springs recently. Managed to find an original unused set in the USA. Experimented with some stiffer springs as well, but it was way too stiff for London roads.
Here's what the suspension originally looked like:
Had the wishbones powder coated. Cost around £40
So far I've only broken down 2 times. Once was due to a faulty alternator which I had fixed for £40. The other time was due to overheating which was due to a lump of metal stuck in the thermostat. No idea where the metal came from although we suspect it was from teh original casting. The car tended to overheat on hot days though so I decided to change the rads and fans. Can't remember the cost.
Here's what the original fans looked like when we took them out. Explains why it tended to overheat.
Left hand radiator.
Right hand radiator.
How it looked with new rads.
After from a faulty sensor (£12) everything was fine afterwards.
Remember the botch job I mentioned earlier? Here it is. Rather than replace the alternator bracket, someone had wedged it into position. New bracket around £40. Makes you wonder what other short cuts were taken as well.
Here's what it looked like:
Replaced by a new one:
Found a broken oil pipe. New one from Ferrari £650. Managed to get it fixed for £50.
I painted the cam covers myself. Specilaists charge a few hundred pounds to do it. Cost me the price of two cans of paint.
The before:
The after:
Don1 said:
Lovely looking thing, and kudos to you for taking the engine out etc!
But I wouldn't do it again in a hurry. It was months of running around getting all the bits and pieces together. Plus we found a few botch jobs done on the car in the past. One important thing it did teach me was that a Ferrari at the end of the day is just like any other car. It's engine is just like any other car. Only difference is that some parts are bloody sight more expensive!!!!
When I first got it, I had never worked on a car before. Now I can do a full oil change and manage to fix some minor faults myself. Thanks to various forums and other owners, there's a great support structure for the 348. Probably the best one around for a particular Ferrari model.
Here's some of the things that were changed and fixed over the last few years.
The suspension needed work. The dampers were sent of to Bilstein to have them refurbished a year earlier. Bilstein told me that Ferrari dampers should refurbished every 3 years. Not sure if I believed them, but mine hadn't been done in over 12 years at that point. Cost £60 plus vat for each damper.
The rubber bushes in the suspension had rotted away. Couldn't get 348 ones so got 355 bushes which were 20% stiffer. Cost around £650. A year later a mate of mine had soem poly bushes made up that cost less than £200.
Brake discs needed replacing as well. Cost £75 each.
Decided to change the suspension springs recently. Managed to find an original unused set in the USA. Experimented with some stiffer springs as well, but it was way too stiff for London roads.
Here's what the suspension originally looked like:
Had the wishbones powder coated. Cost around £40
So far I've only broken down 2 times. Once was due to a faulty alternator which I had fixed for £40. The other time was due to overheating which was due to a lump of metal stuck in the thermostat. No idea where the metal came from although we suspect it was from teh original casting. The car tended to overheat on hot days though so I decided to change the rads and fans. Can't remember the cost.
Here's what the original fans looked like when we took them out. Explains why it tended to overheat.
Left hand radiator.
Right hand radiator.
How it looked with new rads.
After from a faulty sensor (£12) everything was fine afterwards.
Remember the botch job I mentioned earlier? Here it is. Rather than replace the alternator bracket, someone had wedged it into position. New bracket around £40. Makes you wonder what other short cuts were taken as well.
Here's what it looked like:
Replaced by a new one:
Found a broken oil pipe. New one from Ferrari £650. Managed to get it fixed for £50.
I painted the cam covers myself. Specilaists charge a few hundred pounds to do it. Cost me the price of two cans of paint.
The before:
The after:
One interesting fact is that some third party parts are better than original Ferrari parts.
For example, the Cambelt Tensioners bearings. If the engine is going to blow, it's usually because of faulty tensioner bearings rather than the cambelt itself breaking. This can lead to a very expensive repair bill.
Hill Engineering makes some great parts for a wide variety of Ferrari's. The owner Paul Hill is also a 348 owner, so we get extra bits and pieces custom made for our cars.
Below is a comparison shot of the Hill Engineering tensioners and the Ferrari originals.
Ferrari OEM on left & hill engineering on right
Changed the spark plugs to NGK's, which are superior to the Champion plugs taht were already on teh car. I also decided to cahnge the spark plug leads for better quality ones. Replacemnet set from ferarri is over 3600. The Magnecors were around £170.
348's and 355's need to have their cambelts changed every 3 years. there are two ways to do it. One is by taking the engine out which takes longer to do. Other way is to do it with the engine still in the car and removing the fuel tank. Teh altter method is often criticised by many people. Personally, I don't have a problem with having it done with the engine in and it is now a proven procedure. However, I personally would only do and engine out job when doing teh cambelt change every 3 years. By taking the engine out, everything is a lot easier to do and more importnatly the can timing can be done as well.
After we did all the work, I put it on a Hub Dyno. At that point the car has done 36,000 miles and was 14 years old. A couple of runs were done and they were virtually identical in figures achieved. Which I've been told is a good sign.
Results were:
bhp = 281.7 @8170rpm (at the hub)
torque = 201.2 @ 5780rpm (at the hub)
Power loss is between 15% and 20% due to 348's gearbox/transmission. I've subsequently been told by other experts it's betwen 17.5% and 20%
At 15% loss = 331 bhp at the crank
At 17.5% loss 342 bhp at teh crank
At 20% loss = 352 bhp at the crank
So I've got between 331 & 352 bhp and most probably 342 bhp. Big difference from the 304 bhp I originally had. Looks like all the hard work and money spent paid off. But how did it feel on the road?
Well, it felt smoother and much more stronger. It wasn't until I did another Airfiled day taht i found out how much better the car was. Previously I was lapping the circuit at North Weald in 1'10 seconds after a few laps. This time I did 1'05 on my first lap.
Rolling road results before:
rolling road results after:
For example, the Cambelt Tensioners bearings. If the engine is going to blow, it's usually because of faulty tensioner bearings rather than the cambelt itself breaking. This can lead to a very expensive repair bill.
Hill Engineering makes some great parts for a wide variety of Ferrari's. The owner Paul Hill is also a 348 owner, so we get extra bits and pieces custom made for our cars.
Below is a comparison shot of the Hill Engineering tensioners and the Ferrari originals.
Ferrari OEM on left & hill engineering on right
Changed the spark plugs to NGK's, which are superior to the Champion plugs taht were already on teh car. I also decided to cahnge the spark plug leads for better quality ones. Replacemnet set from ferarri is over 3600. The Magnecors were around £170.
348's and 355's need to have their cambelts changed every 3 years. there are two ways to do it. One is by taking the engine out which takes longer to do. Other way is to do it with the engine still in the car and removing the fuel tank. Teh altter method is often criticised by many people. Personally, I don't have a problem with having it done with the engine in and it is now a proven procedure. However, I personally would only do and engine out job when doing teh cambelt change every 3 years. By taking the engine out, everything is a lot easier to do and more importnatly the can timing can be done as well.
After we did all the work, I put it on a Hub Dyno. At that point the car has done 36,000 miles and was 14 years old. A couple of runs were done and they were virtually identical in figures achieved. Which I've been told is a good sign.
Results were:
bhp = 281.7 @8170rpm (at the hub)
torque = 201.2 @ 5780rpm (at the hub)
Power loss is between 15% and 20% due to 348's gearbox/transmission. I've subsequently been told by other experts it's betwen 17.5% and 20%
At 15% loss = 331 bhp at the crank
At 17.5% loss 342 bhp at teh crank
At 20% loss = 352 bhp at the crank
So I've got between 331 & 352 bhp and most probably 342 bhp. Big difference from the 304 bhp I originally had. Looks like all the hard work and money spent paid off. But how did it feel on the road?
Well, it felt smoother and much more stronger. It wasn't until I did another Airfiled day taht i found out how much better the car was. Previously I was lapping the circuit at North Weald in 1'10 seconds after a few laps. This time I did 1'05 on my first lap.
Rolling road results before:
rolling road results after:
vtr_driver said:
Inspirational!! Love the idea of working on your own Ferrari!
I was hesitantt first, as I have two left hands and no mechanical experience, but it was a great learning curve.The great thing about the 348 is that anyone with a bit of mechanical skill can work on the car themselves and save a load of money. Plus many parts can be sourced elsewhere.
minimatt1967 said:
I've never liked the 348, it had a terrible time, following in the footsteps of the 308/328, then being followed by the stunning 355!
I really like yours though the change of wheels and the stripe also the dark colour instead of the usual Ferrari red, and the modifications to brakes interior etc most admirable! From your pics I cannot believe how big the 430 is compared with the 348! What is the weight of the 348 compared with the 430?
Good effort chap
.....slopes off the the classified to find the price of 348's!
Thanks.I really like yours though the change of wheels and the stripe also the dark colour instead of the usual Ferrari red, and the modifications to brakes interior etc most admirable! From your pics I cannot believe how big the 430 is compared with the 348! What is the weight of the 348 compared with the 430?
Good effort chap
.....slopes off the the classified to find the price of 348's!
According to Wikipedia:
430's kerb weight is 1450 kg (3197 lb) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F430
348's kerb weight is 1393 kg (3071 lb) (For the earlier TB, TS) and 1370 kg (3020 lb) (GTS, GTB, Spider)
I'm not too sure if the wikipedia figures are correct though. According to their figures, mine at 1418 kg is 25kg heavier even though I've reduced the weight with lighter wheels, lighter exhaust, lighter seats etc. Perhaps that's the dry weight they've given???
Mine with half a tank of fuel:
Matthew_Eames said:
Stunning Ferrari, not been that aware of them previously but they look great...particularly when not red. Must be an experience taking the engine out!
Taking the engine out is actually the easy bit. Putting it back in is a pain in the a*** to do as you have to line up the bolt holes. It took us about 5 hours to take the engine out. I reckon next time we could get it down to around 3.5 hours. A lot of it is spent draining fluids and double checking things. Some guys have even done it using a the two trolley jack method. God knwos how they did it, but it's possible. We ahd teh luxury of a lift.minimatt1967 said:
I've never liked the 348, it had a terrible time, following in the footsteps of the 308/328, then being followed by the stunning 355!
I originally wanted a 355, but didn't have the funds at the time. So I decided to get a 328. I initially avoided the 348 because a lot of people said it was a piece of crap and the worse Ferarri ever made.Here's two recent magazine articles where they mention the 348. Classic cars and Performance car.
Luca di Montezemolo also stated that the 348 was the worst product Ferrari ever made. Having owned one, he wasn't very impressed with it at the time.
Then there's Andrew Frankel who rated the 348 as the worst Ferrari in his Top 10 worst Ferarri's ever made..
[i]"But only one of all these cars I've mentioned is entirely unworthy of the greatest road car name of all; after all, even an automatic 400i has a certain gentlemanly charm to it. The worst Ferrari I have ever driven is the 348tb. It was quite quick and quite attractive but these more obvious strengths cloaked for only an instant the fact that the car was no damn good to drive. To improve its packaging it had its gearbox slung transversely across the back of the car, which turned the sometimes obstructive Ferrari five-speed gearshift into a thing of piggish obstinacy.
Worse, while other Ferraris were undoubtedly unforgiving on the limit, this one was a sociopath. I once spent a morning at a test track with some very experienced drivers and, in a safe and controlled environment, found out a little more about its behaviour. And we discovered that if you were less than lightning quick with your reactions, there'd be more chance of persuading Margaret Thatcher to vote Labour than stopping the 348 from spinning. It was also hugely expensive.
[/i]
http://www.channel4.com/4car/ft/feature/feature/97...
Then you have all the other negative comments on the forums:
Gusdaq said:
Personally I found the handling awful, especially at anything over about 80mph, what a difference when I drove a 355 with the underbody spoilers etc, I had that baby at 160mph on the way to Le Mans and she was wonderful....the 348 would have been in a field!!!!!
jonny 4200gt said:
A chum of mine who knows the Ferrari F1 mechanics was talking to the chief engineer who worked on the 348 and was categorically told NOT to buy one ! I won't repeat his comments, but my chum now runs a 911 ;-)
Get a 355 or if you want real style get a Maserati. Sooooo much more street cred than a 911 or Ferrari, much more exclusive and people will think you're cool :-)
Get a 355 or if you want real style get a Maserati. Sooooo much more street cred than a 911 or Ferrari, much more exclusive and people will think you're cool :-)
lowdrag said:
The 348 is a great car huh? Here is a list of the woes that befell mine:-
After 1,000 miles the alternator failed the day before Le Mans and it took two weeks to source and fit a replacement
The oil pipe near the bulkhead came off because at the factory the clip was put the wrong side of the olive and so with nothing to retain it it just slipped off. A new engine was called for at 2,000 miles.
Both sets of strakes in the doors cracked and were replaced
At speed the door mirrors pulled away from the door seals creating susbstantial wind noise. Ferrari replaced the plastic triangular mounting points with aluminium ones.
The car leaked water when parked up, always around the targa top. This was an endemic problem and Ferrari had new seals made in Canada to solve the problem.
The car got very light at speed and Ferrari fitted an aftermarket lip spoiler to cure the problem.
The air conditioning system provides very little cool air for the driver on RHD cars.
My list of technichal problems went on and on but the most dangerous part about a 348 is the roadholding and it took me two years to finally get to the bottom of the problem. Quite simply the chassis is too weak and at breakaway the chassis flexes up to an inch. I even got a racing driver to try and get it to handle at Donington and he lost it big time. A very dangerous car in extremis.
However, the most laughable part of the 348 was what happened when the battery went flat and here, quite frankly, you are better off having one of the earlier cars with the battery in the rear. Picture the scene; you've left your pride and joy in the garage during the winter and the alarm has flattened the battery so you push the car outside to get some jump leads on it. Ah, but first you have to get out the jack and take off the NS front wheel to get at the battery. Now, with cables attached, you gingerly turn the key making sure that you do not touch the accelerator at all. It starts, you take off the cables, replace the wheel and go indoors for 20 minutes for a coffee leaving the car ticking over outside. All this so the mixture control computers can reset.
OK, your pride and joy is now operational, but your next trip is straight to the dealership where they will spend an hour or two taking the dashboard apart to restart your aircon which, after a flat battery, no longer works.
If you still want to buy a 348 after reading all that, all without a word of a lie, then you are a masochist. The happiest moment with my 348 came near Bordeaux when we encountered a 200 yd slick of diesel on a bend. This is all I have left of the worst sports car I have ever owned.
As you can see, not a lot of good things were said about the 348. Hence my initial decision to avoid it.After 1,000 miles the alternator failed the day before Le Mans and it took two weeks to source and fit a replacement
The oil pipe near the bulkhead came off because at the factory the clip was put the wrong side of the olive and so with nothing to retain it it just slipped off. A new engine was called for at 2,000 miles.
Both sets of strakes in the doors cracked and were replaced
At speed the door mirrors pulled away from the door seals creating susbstantial wind noise. Ferrari replaced the plastic triangular mounting points with aluminium ones.
The car leaked water when parked up, always around the targa top. This was an endemic problem and Ferrari had new seals made in Canada to solve the problem.
The car got very light at speed and Ferrari fitted an aftermarket lip spoiler to cure the problem.
The air conditioning system provides very little cool air for the driver on RHD cars.
My list of technichal problems went on and on but the most dangerous part about a 348 is the roadholding and it took me two years to finally get to the bottom of the problem. Quite simply the chassis is too weak and at breakaway the chassis flexes up to an inch. I even got a racing driver to try and get it to handle at Donington and he lost it big time. A very dangerous car in extremis.
However, the most laughable part of the 348 was what happened when the battery went flat and here, quite frankly, you are better off having one of the earlier cars with the battery in the rear. Picture the scene; you've left your pride and joy in the garage during the winter and the alarm has flattened the battery so you push the car outside to get some jump leads on it. Ah, but first you have to get out the jack and take off the NS front wheel to get at the battery. Now, with cables attached, you gingerly turn the key making sure that you do not touch the accelerator at all. It starts, you take off the cables, replace the wheel and go indoors for 20 minutes for a coffee leaving the car ticking over outside. All this so the mixture control computers can reset.
OK, your pride and joy is now operational, but your next trip is straight to the dealership where they will spend an hour or two taking the dashboard apart to restart your aircon which, after a flat battery, no longer works.
If you still want to buy a 348 after reading all that, all without a word of a lie, then you are a masochist. The happiest moment with my 348 came near Bordeaux when we encountered a 200 yd slick of diesel on a bend. This is all I have left of the worst sports car I have ever owned.
However, I liked the shape of the 348 and started to do some research. The more I read about it, the more I cam to relise that there was a lot of misconception about it.
Teh early 348's were rushed into production and as with all early Ferarri production numbers had a few gremlins that got sorted over teh following years. The biggest complaint was about the handling, which according to some journalists was dangerous and liable to kill you. Obviously tehy had never driven a 911 before.
What they forgot to mention was that it tended to happen when the driver was at the 995 of teh performace of teh car. Not something most of us woudl ever reach on the road. Anyway, ferrari made a few modificatiosn to teh car. A raft of tehm were done in 1992. These modesl had the battery located in the front wheel arch front for better stability and to piss of owners who had to change the battery.
As with most marques and especially with Ferrari, the later the production model the better the car. However, most of the early cars have now been sorted.
Here's my response to one of the above posters. It gives more insight into the 348.
lowdrag said:
After 1,000 miles the alternator failed the day before Le Mans and it took two weeks to source and fit a replacement
That can happen to any car and Ferrari parts supply is not exactly the best in the world.EDIT: I had my alternator rebuilt. Plus, I got a coupel up updated and better quality parts for it. Total cost £105. It now works perfectly.
lowdrag said:
A new engine was called for at 2,000 miles.
I know of a Stradale that had an engine replaced in the first few months of ownership. Again, just one of those things. lowdrag said:
Both sets of strakes in the doors cracked and were replaced
At speed the door mirrors pulled away from the door seals creating susbstantial wind noise. Ferrari replaced the plastic triangular mounting points with aluminium ones.
As I said earlier, the 348 was rushed into production and some of your problems no doubt relate to that.At speed the door mirrors pulled away from the door seals creating susbstantial wind noise. Ferrari replaced the plastic triangular mounting points with aluminium ones.
lowdrag said:
The car leaked water when parked up, always around the targa top. This was an endemic problem and Ferrari had new seals made in Canada to solve the problem.
I think the Targa's still leak. lowdrag said:
The car got very light at speed and Ferrari fitted an aftermarket lip spoiler to cure the problem.
I have to admit, my front end does get light at high speeds. I'm having the suspension bushes & springs changed. Also contemplating an additional lip spoiler if the problem persists. having said that, a friend of mine overtook me at 170 miles per hour in his late spec 348 and his car was rock solid.lowdrag said:
but the most dangerous part about a 348 is the roadholding and it took me two years to finally get to the bottom of the problem. Quite simply the chassis is too weak and at breakaway the chassis flexes up to an inch. I even got a racing driver to try and get it to handle at Donington and he lost it big time. A very dangerous car in extremis.
Early cars did have handling problems. Post 92 cars were beter handling.Many 348's take part in the Ferrari Hill Climbing championship and last year it was won by a 348.
My 348 has been driven by a Andy walsh, a well known race driver, and all he said was that my one tended to understeer, which was more due to the old front tyres than anything else.
EDIT: Many 348 owners complain about the handling. The bihhest problem with teh 348 is that it is very sensitive to even minor suspension changes. Most haven't had a geometry set up done in years. Sometimes even teh set up from the factory can be wrong. I had a full suspension set up done a while back by Damax. Robin is a professional racer and helped develop the Ascari race cars. He removed 29 suspension shims and put back 14. Adjusted the ride heights and set teh cambers. The car was transformed.
I've done trackdays and airfield days without a problem.
lowdrag said:
However, the most laughable part of the 348 was what happened when the battery went flat and here, quite frankly, you are better off having one of the earlier cars with the battery in the rear. Picture the scene; you've left your pride and joy in the garage during the winter and the alarm has flattened the battery so you push the car outside to get some jump leads on it. Ah, but first you have to get out the jack and take off the NS front wheel to get at the battery. Now, with cables attached, you gingerly turn the key making sure that you do not touch the accelerator at all. It starts, you take off the cables, replace the wheel and go indoors for 20 minutes for a coffee leaving the car ticking over outside. All this so the mixture control computers can reset.
My battary is in the front wheel arch. It was put there on later cars to help with the weight distribution and handling.I've had a flat battery quite a few times now and have never accessed the battery. There's a couple of connection in the engine bay where you can connect a battery charger or booster quite easily. I've also got an accumate which I plug in when the cars parked. Have'nt had a flat battery since.
lowdrag said:
OK, your pride and joy is now operational, but your next trip is straight to the dealership where they will spend an hour or two taking the dashboard apart to restart your aircon which, after a flat battery, no longer works.
Electrical problem. Nothing more. i get it on my AC system. For a while the fans would'nt work which made driving in the rain a pain in the behind. Replacement AC costs around £1,000, but as with most things Italian... it fixed itself and has'nt been a problem since. Fingers crossed!!!EDIT: I've had a coupel of flat batteries and it's never affected the air con on my car. The problem with my air con where teh fans stopped working kept coming back more frequently. Turned out to be a dodgy fan motor. Took it out myself and had it fixed. cost: £40, a few hours of my time and a couple of cuts to the hand.
lowdrag said:
If you still want to buy a 348 after reading all that, all without a word of a lie, then you are a masochist. The happiest moment with my 348 came near Bordeaux when we encountered a 200 yd slick of diesel on a bend. This is all I have left of the worst sports car I have ever owned.
I think you just had bad luck with your car to be honest. In two years of ownership, I've only had two major problems. One was overheating and the other a split coolant hose. Both of which have now been overhauled.EDIT: Had it over 3 years now and still love the 348.
Edited by Angelis on Thursday 11th September 11:11
I'm in the process of doing a buyers guide for the 348 website I run (http://www.theferrari348.com/forum/index.php), but here are a few bits of info that may help in the meantime.
1. Do your research
Visit the 348 website, Ferrarichat,Club Scuderia and of course Pistonheads and read up on the 348. Talk to owners about their cars.
Get to know about the various models. Some have 300bhp whilst the later ones have 320 bhp.
Production numbers are as follows:
348tb = 2,895 - RHD UK = 130
348ts = 4,230 - RHD UK = 261
348spider = 1090 - RHD UK = 68
348GTB = 252 - RHD UK = 14
348GTS = 137 - RHD UK = 15
348GTC = 50 - RHD UK = 8
Total = 8,654
UK RHD = 496
2. Finding a good 348
It's getting harder and harder to find a good one and there's quite a few people actively searching.
No matter where you buy it from, make sure you have a Pre Purchase Inspection done with a compression test.
Some 348's are clocked as are many other models. A few unscrupulous owners tend to disconnect the speedometer which is easily done. Others search ebay for used speedo's.
Service histories are good, but they don't tell you the whole story. You need to see receipts and other paperwork.
Make sure the catalytic converters are both OK. Even with one blown cat, it will pass the mot, so don't rely on the emissions test alone. New cats are expensive and also a bit s
t.
Prices have gone down considerable. I paid £35,000 for mine 3 years ago. You can get 355's for that sort of money now. The spread is from £18,000 to £35,000 at the moment depending on model, mileage and condition.
3. 348 v 355
The 348 engine is bullet proof if looked after. In comparison the 355's tend to have engine rebuilds and other problems.
I had a chat with one very well know specialist who told me they had done countless 355 engine rebuilds, a few 360 rebuilds, but had never done a 348 rebuild. It's not to say it will never or has never happened, but the chances of it happening are extremely low in comparison to the 355. That's why used 348 engines are half the price of 355 ones.
The 355 has well known manifold problems which need to be replaced. You can get better quality ones from QV London. The 348 don't have this problem.
Valve guides can go on the 355. The 348 doesn't have that problem.
The 348 doesn't have power steering or electrically adjustable suspension like the 355. So less to go wrong.
The 348's gearbox though is a weak point. A few cars have had the gearbox break and parts are getting harder to come by. Rebuild cost is circa £4,000. Later models have less problems due to modifications made by the factory and therefore are stronger.
Electrics can be a pain in the arse sometimes. Hey...it's 1980's Italian electrics. Be lucky you don't electrocute yourself when you sit in it.
Ins summary, both the 348 and 355 need to have the engine taken out. the 355 has the better gearbox, but the 348 has the stronger engine. The 355 revs higher, but the 348 is more revvier.
4. Modding a 348
You have a lot of options here. The 348 is probably teh most modable Ferarri around.
If it hasn't got one already, you'll need a sports exhaust. Tubi, Capristo and X-OST are the most comon ones. Budget between £1,300 & £1,700. half that for used.
The standard 348 wheels are very heavy and 17". I have the 18" F355 magnesium wheels. Lighter and better looking. Other options are the 355 Challenge , 360 challenge wheels.
Used 360 carbon fibre seats are £2,000+. Worth every penny in my opinion. Transforms the driving experience.
Best value for money modification i reckon is the 360 challenge steering wheel. Cost £180 and very cool
As the 355 is basically a 348 body, you can take some bits off that. Bonnet vent mod is around £350 to do.
Carbon interior bits can cost £900. they look good though.
AP Racing brake kit is around £1,800. I never really liked the standard 348/355 brakes (they share the same brakes).
Wheel spacers are a must, especially if you have the 355 wheels. I'm running 15mm at the front and 25mm at the rears.
The standard cats are crap. New set of sports cats by hyper-Flow are around £800. However, if your 348 is pre 1992, you can decat it legally.
5. Running costs
I'm paying £550 per year for insurance with a 5,000 mile limit.
Service cost vary, but this will give you an idea. http://www.verdi-ferrari.com/servicing.htm
Tyres cost around £150 each for Pirelli Pzeros for 355 wheels.
Hope the above helps anyone who is interested.
1. Do your research
Visit the 348 website, Ferrarichat,Club Scuderia and of course Pistonheads and read up on the 348. Talk to owners about their cars.
Get to know about the various models. Some have 300bhp whilst the later ones have 320 bhp.
Production numbers are as follows:
348tb = 2,895 - RHD UK = 130
348ts = 4,230 - RHD UK = 261
348spider = 1090 - RHD UK = 68
348GTB = 252 - RHD UK = 14
348GTS = 137 - RHD UK = 15
348GTC = 50 - RHD UK = 8
Total = 8,654
UK RHD = 496
2. Finding a good 348
It's getting harder and harder to find a good one and there's quite a few people actively searching.
No matter where you buy it from, make sure you have a Pre Purchase Inspection done with a compression test.
Some 348's are clocked as are many other models. A few unscrupulous owners tend to disconnect the speedometer which is easily done. Others search ebay for used speedo's.
Service histories are good, but they don't tell you the whole story. You need to see receipts and other paperwork.
Make sure the catalytic converters are both OK. Even with one blown cat, it will pass the mot, so don't rely on the emissions test alone. New cats are expensive and also a bit s
t.Prices have gone down considerable. I paid £35,000 for mine 3 years ago. You can get 355's for that sort of money now. The spread is from £18,000 to £35,000 at the moment depending on model, mileage and condition.
3. 348 v 355
The 348 engine is bullet proof if looked after. In comparison the 355's tend to have engine rebuilds and other problems.
I had a chat with one very well know specialist who told me they had done countless 355 engine rebuilds, a few 360 rebuilds, but had never done a 348 rebuild. It's not to say it will never or has never happened, but the chances of it happening are extremely low in comparison to the 355. That's why used 348 engines are half the price of 355 ones.
The 355 has well known manifold problems which need to be replaced. You can get better quality ones from QV London. The 348 don't have this problem.
Valve guides can go on the 355. The 348 doesn't have that problem.
The 348 doesn't have power steering or electrically adjustable suspension like the 355. So less to go wrong.
The 348's gearbox though is a weak point. A few cars have had the gearbox break and parts are getting harder to come by. Rebuild cost is circa £4,000. Later models have less problems due to modifications made by the factory and therefore are stronger.
Electrics can be a pain in the arse sometimes. Hey...it's 1980's Italian electrics. Be lucky you don't electrocute yourself when you sit in it.
Ins summary, both the 348 and 355 need to have the engine taken out. the 355 has the better gearbox, but the 348 has the stronger engine. The 355 revs higher, but the 348 is more revvier.
4. Modding a 348
You have a lot of options here. The 348 is probably teh most modable Ferarri around.
If it hasn't got one already, you'll need a sports exhaust. Tubi, Capristo and X-OST are the most comon ones. Budget between £1,300 & £1,700. half that for used.
The standard 348 wheels are very heavy and 17". I have the 18" F355 magnesium wheels. Lighter and better looking. Other options are the 355 Challenge , 360 challenge wheels.
Used 360 carbon fibre seats are £2,000+. Worth every penny in my opinion. Transforms the driving experience.
Best value for money modification i reckon is the 360 challenge steering wheel. Cost £180 and very cool
As the 355 is basically a 348 body, you can take some bits off that. Bonnet vent mod is around £350 to do.
Carbon interior bits can cost £900. they look good though.
AP Racing brake kit is around £1,800. I never really liked the standard 348/355 brakes (they share the same brakes).
Wheel spacers are a must, especially if you have the 355 wheels. I'm running 15mm at the front and 25mm at the rears.
The standard cats are crap. New set of sports cats by hyper-Flow are around £800. However, if your 348 is pre 1992, you can decat it legally.
5. Running costs
I'm paying £550 per year for insurance with a 5,000 mile limit.
Service cost vary, but this will give you an idea. http://www.verdi-ferrari.com/servicing.htm
Tyres cost around £150 each for Pirelli Pzeros for 355 wheels.
Hope the above helps anyone who is interested.
Edited by Angelis on Thursday 11th September 11:14
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