Discussion
Hello there folks! I thought after a year of being on this place I'd get brave and post a few pics of my pride and joy - a 1998 Fiat Punto Sporting 16v. Yes yes I know what you're thinking - boy racer alert - but stick with me. As I'm sure you'll see it is completely standard as Fiat built it. She's got 64k on the clock and one of Fiat's FIRE masterpieces in her nose. Her brakes aren;t very good but then she doesn;t need them as she's best driven like an Italian - foot down, wave your arms around and go round every corner on your doorhandles. She's surprised a few 8v Golf GTi's on the old sliproad Grand Prix and never fails to bring a smile as she revs cleanly to 7200rpm. I have big plans for her which I'll go into in a bit, but first, some pics!
This is as clean as she's been for about 6 months after my ill advised experiments with the rat look (salesman speak for - I couldn't be arsed to clean it)
Note the lack of silly spoilers and big wheelz.com. I think Fiat did a good enough job with the styling without my cack handed attempts to improve it with some fibreglass and pollyfilla.
Again, bodykit free. Even has the standard exhaust!
It is still only a Punto though, so if you have stopped reading now due to the lack of V8's or TVR build quality, I won;t be offended. I'm used to it by now
Welcome to the helm as it were. Good job the camera couldn't capture the creaks as you open the door (just fixed with WD40) or the smell of smoke. Love the chunky wee wheel though.
Temperature and fuel gauge in their usual positions. I'm a Scot and refuse to put more than a fiver in at a time. Unless I'm going on a journey of course. Putting a fiver in then would just be tedious. And yes I know it needs a clean. Thats the job for this weekend.
The expertly fit stereo upgrade. I should work for Halfords, me.
This is where the magic happens.
What the passenger sees as they cling on for dear life as we take another roundabout without lifting
Anyway enough with the shopping trolley pics, more onto the plans I have for it, as I want to hear your thoughts on whether they're a good idea or not. I'm kind of having leanings towards turning it into a trackday s
g, as round tighter circuits I reckon it would be a riot. I've seen Cinque Sporting trackday cars before, so I'm keen to give its bigger brother a try. But before that it needs so maintenence, so this Friday I'm going to change the oil and flush out the radiator (keep getting air locks in it), then next month I pkan on changing the plugs, leads and the remaining ignition coil which hasnt packed up on me. I've had an intermittant cold starting problem recently which I've traced to two HT leads shorting each other out, I've bodged them with insulating tape for now, but they'll definitely need replacing. I also have 3 tyres getting low on tread, due to the way it encourages you to drive it. Then, we get to the fun stuff.
Brakes - blatantly need upgrading. Can't do much about the drums at the rear, but plan on fitting grooved discs and some harder pads. Might investigate the rear disc conversion at a later date, but written off GT's are getting hard to come by these days. I'm also trying to bear in mind - its only a Punto. I don't intend on outbraking Enzos with it.
Suspension - first jobs are simple ones, an OMP strut brace and some Powerflex bushes. If I can eliminate some of the body roll and stop scrubbing the front tyres I'll be a happy chap. Later on I may go for a shock and spring upgrade, don;t want to lower the car too much however. I like being able to keep up a decent pace over speedbumps.
Engine - the last bit to get sorted. It already has a custom induction kit fitted (pics later), and it alrady pulls well for its dimunutive size. Fiat tried just about everything they could to get 85bhp out of a 1.2, so there really isnt a huge ammount more to be done without turbocharging. I plan on taking it to GSR for one of their custom inductions and a remap, then if I can find a subtle exhaust I'll fit that as well. I've heard good things about supersprint systems, I may give them a look.
Interior/ICE - leave as is mainly, although I have a subwoofer I can fit to the boot. I might fit this then cancel the weight addition by stripping the rear seats.
Exterior - Sweet FA. Tees a Q Punto.
And thats it so far. Sorry if I 've wasted 10 minutes of your life talking about a Punto. If not your feedback is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
This is as clean as she's been for about 6 months after my ill advised experiments with the rat look (salesman speak for - I couldn't be arsed to clean it)
Note the lack of silly spoilers and big wheelz.com. I think Fiat did a good enough job with the styling without my cack handed attempts to improve it with some fibreglass and pollyfilla.
Again, bodykit free. Even has the standard exhaust!
It is still only a Punto though, so if you have stopped reading now due to the lack of V8's or TVR build quality, I won;t be offended. I'm used to it by now
Welcome to the helm as it were. Good job the camera couldn't capture the creaks as you open the door (just fixed with WD40) or the smell of smoke. Love the chunky wee wheel though.
Temperature and fuel gauge in their usual positions. I'm a Scot and refuse to put more than a fiver in at a time. Unless I'm going on a journey of course. Putting a fiver in then would just be tedious. And yes I know it needs a clean. Thats the job for this weekend.
The expertly fit stereo upgrade. I should work for Halfords, me.
This is where the magic happens.
What the passenger sees as they cling on for dear life as we take another roundabout without lifting
Anyway enough with the shopping trolley pics, more onto the plans I have for it, as I want to hear your thoughts on whether they're a good idea or not. I'm kind of having leanings towards turning it into a trackday s
g, as round tighter circuits I reckon it would be a riot. I've seen Cinque Sporting trackday cars before, so I'm keen to give its bigger brother a try. But before that it needs so maintenence, so this Friday I'm going to change the oil and flush out the radiator (keep getting air locks in it), then next month I pkan on changing the plugs, leads and the remaining ignition coil which hasnt packed up on me. I've had an intermittant cold starting problem recently which I've traced to two HT leads shorting each other out, I've bodged them with insulating tape for now, but they'll definitely need replacing. I also have 3 tyres getting low on tread, due to the way it encourages you to drive it. Then, we get to the fun stuff.Brakes - blatantly need upgrading. Can't do much about the drums at the rear, but plan on fitting grooved discs and some harder pads. Might investigate the rear disc conversion at a later date, but written off GT's are getting hard to come by these days. I'm also trying to bear in mind - its only a Punto. I don't intend on outbraking Enzos with it.
Suspension - first jobs are simple ones, an OMP strut brace and some Powerflex bushes. If I can eliminate some of the body roll and stop scrubbing the front tyres I'll be a happy chap. Later on I may go for a shock and spring upgrade, don;t want to lower the car too much however. I like being able to keep up a decent pace over speedbumps.
Engine - the last bit to get sorted. It already has a custom induction kit fitted (pics later), and it alrady pulls well for its dimunutive size. Fiat tried just about everything they could to get 85bhp out of a 1.2, so there really isnt a huge ammount more to be done without turbocharging. I plan on taking it to GSR for one of their custom inductions and a remap, then if I can find a subtle exhaust I'll fit that as well. I've heard good things about supersprint systems, I may give them a look.
Interior/ICE - leave as is mainly, although I have a subwoofer I can fit to the boot. I might fit this then cancel the weight addition by stripping the rear seats.
Exterior - Sweet FA. Tees a Q Punto.
And thats it so far. Sorry if I 've wasted 10 minutes of your life talking about a Punto. If not your feedback is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Thanks guys, always good to hear I'm on the right track. I wouldn't mind an opinion or two on the air locks i keep getting in the cooling system to be honest. Do these sound like a blocked rad or was the cooling system just designed by someone who was a bit "special"?
At the moment the temperature runs fine after I bleed all the air out of the system. The cooling fan switches on, everything is normal. But after a couple of weeks the temp invariably shoots up whilst idling and the fan is silent, I bleed the air out again its fine. It's starting to get quite annoying now to be honest...
At the moment the temperature runs fine after I bleed all the air out of the system. The cooling fan switches on, everything is normal. But after a couple of weeks the temp invariably shoots up whilst idling and the fan is silent, I bleed the air out again its fine. It's starting to get quite annoying now to be honest...
Hello again folks. I thought I'd use this thread as a kind of mini-blog, so I can chart my trials and tribulations with one of Italy's finest (9 year old shopping trolleys . First of all, I promised you all some pictures of the sutom induction I've fitted, I'm sure you'll agree they were worth the wait...
The need for a new induction kit was brought on by Fiat's use of recycled egg cartons to make the air intake and cleaner pipe. As a result, it was all craacked and perished by the offside headlight. This resulted in all sorts of problems - rough idling, excessive fuel consumption and very little power. Out came my good friend mr D.Tape with a solution.
As you can see, it iz cuztom innit Luckily the tape has resealed it, so the engine is back running (relatively) normally. It is when you get it running anyway, as for the past few weeks the intermittent starting issue has been getting more and more problematic. It normally fires then dies straight away again, a couple of boots of throttle can get two of the cylinders to chunter into life, then another boot gets the other two going (although the last one can take a minute or so to remember its an engine cylinder and should be exploding some petrol rather than just chucking it straight down the exhaust.
Speaking of exhausts, all the rattling and chuddering getting the full compliment of cylinders appears to have shaken this to pieces. Two of the mountings have broken and the back box is no longer attached. However as it isn't blowing (just rattling like a 9 year old Fiat) I'm praying it stays attached long enough to save for a supersprint. The MOT isnt until April, so should have a bit of time to play with, although as I've just been made redundant I think it may still be a month or 3. But I digest..
Anyway, it's also developed an interesting fault with its HT leads. I changed these about a month ago, along with the plugs, and the two new sets refuse to stay connected to each other. Nine times out of ten I took the resonator off the top of the engine and was greeted with this sight....
As you can see, the right hand plug is a good inch or so above where it should be seated. Good old Fiats eh? Anyway, all the plug access meant I got fed up with continually unfixing the resonator, so I have decided to leave that in the boot. I was left with the decayed air intake pipe and cleaner, with an enormous hole where it connected to the resonator. However, I was also left with a Punto that seemed to have more power up top and past 4000rpm on a full throttle, sounded very similar to a Punto Sporting CSL. So the new intake was staying. the big hole was a problem however, as it looked ideal for sucking up water, leaves, and other things you dont want in there. My local friendly garage suggested with duct taping it closed or fitting a stocking over it to keep the noise, yet keep nasty stuff out. My solution? Well, see for yourself.....
Yep, thats a bit of Halfords polishing cloth, securely taped up to the intake. I've had it checked out by the garage who said it was fine, I just need to tape the airbox up properly, as that has started to split. It isn't ideal but will do until I can have a word with GSR.
Anyway I had it in last Friday to have a couple of jobs done (the exhaust, an oil change - never could get the bloody sump plug off - and investigate the starting problem). Now my car being a Fiat, decided to start every time they tried it. Every time, straight into life, all four cyclinders eager and ready for attention. To quote Anchorman - 60% of the time, it works all the time. A Charge of 25 notes, and no fault found. Excellent. Only thing they didnt do was a compression test, but this was done about 4 months ago when the overheating started, and everything was 100%.
Speaking of overheating, check this out!
The airlocks still aren't going away, although I tried using a different bleeding method afterwards and it has stayed fairly rock solid every since. every so often it creeps to just above half, but then falls away again pretty quickly. Fiats eh? I suspect the thermostat, will change this when I get a chance. My respect for the FIRE lump has gone up immeasurably however, as it was running for a good 10 minutes with the tempo guage there without a complaint. Not ideal I know, but I had a job interview to get to. It has run fine since as well.
The other news was that being made redundant gave me a good chance to give it a damn good wash, wax and t-cut. After washing I was still left with paint discolouration like the below all over the bodywork.
Not sure how well the camera has picked it up, but you should see a greying round the door handle. A Couple of days elbow grease with a combination of
Turtle Wax Zip Wax
Car Plan T-Cut
Turtle Wax Car Polish
AutoGlym Super Glass Cleaner
Turtle Wax Extreme Wheels
my pride and joy was left looking like this.
She had 2x Avon ZV3's on the front and I've got some Black Polish and some Bug Remover for her next wash. I'm still loving driving round in her when she works - with that induction and the exhaust not strictly speaking being attached tunnel runs are GREAT - I'd just like to get to the bottom of the starting and cooling issues, as frankly, I'm getting stumped. She's still proving more reliable than my Golfs, as through all her problems she hasnt left me stranded yet.
Thanks everyone again if you've sat through my drivel and banger pictures. Also if you've had a Punto with these issues, let me know.
Kind Regards.
. First of all, I promised you all some pictures of the sutom induction I've fitted, I'm sure you'll agree they were worth the wait...The need for a new induction kit was brought on by Fiat's use of recycled egg cartons to make the air intake and cleaner pipe. As a result, it was all craacked and perished by the offside headlight. This resulted in all sorts of problems - rough idling, excessive fuel consumption and very little power. Out came my good friend mr D.Tape with a solution.
As you can see, it iz cuztom innit
Luckily the tape has resealed it, so the engine is back running (relatively) normally. It is when you get it running anyway, as for the past few weeks the intermittent starting issue has been getting more and more problematic. It normally fires then dies straight away again, a couple of boots of throttle can get two of the cylinders to chunter into life, then another boot gets the other two going (although the last one can take a minute or so to remember its an engine cylinder and should be exploding some petrol rather than just chucking it straight down the exhaust. Speaking of exhausts, all the rattling and chuddering getting the full compliment of cylinders appears to have shaken this to pieces. Two of the mountings have broken and the back box is no longer attached. However as it isn't blowing (just rattling like a 9 year old Fiat) I'm praying it stays attached long enough to save for a supersprint. The MOT isnt until April, so should have a bit of time to play with, although as I've just been made redundant I think it may still be a month or 3. But I digest..
Anyway, it's also developed an interesting fault with its HT leads. I changed these about a month ago, along with the plugs, and the two new sets refuse to stay connected to each other. Nine times out of ten I took the resonator off the top of the engine and was greeted with this sight....
As you can see, the right hand plug is a good inch or so above where it should be seated. Good old Fiats eh? Anyway, all the plug access meant I got fed up with continually unfixing the resonator, so I have decided to leave that in the boot. I was left with the decayed air intake pipe and cleaner, with an enormous hole where it connected to the resonator. However, I was also left with a Punto that seemed to have more power up top and past 4000rpm on a full throttle, sounded very similar to a Punto Sporting CSL. So the new intake was staying. the big hole was a problem however, as it looked ideal for sucking up water, leaves, and other things you dont want in there. My local friendly garage suggested with duct taping it closed or fitting a stocking over it to keep the noise, yet keep nasty stuff out. My solution? Well, see for yourself.....
Yep, thats a bit of Halfords polishing cloth, securely taped up to the intake. I've had it checked out by the garage who said it was fine, I just need to tape the airbox up properly, as that has started to split. It isn't ideal but will do until I can have a word with GSR.
Anyway I had it in last Friday to have a couple of jobs done (the exhaust, an oil change - never could get the bloody sump plug off - and investigate the starting problem). Now my car being a Fiat, decided to start every time they tried it. Every time, straight into life, all four cyclinders eager and ready for attention. To quote Anchorman - 60% of the time, it works all the time. A Charge of 25 notes, and no fault found. Excellent. Only thing they didnt do was a compression test, but this was done about 4 months ago when the overheating started, and everything was 100%.
Speaking of overheating, check this out!
The airlocks still aren't going away, although I tried using a different bleeding method afterwards and it has stayed fairly rock solid every since. every so often it creeps to just above half, but then falls away again pretty quickly. Fiats eh? I suspect the thermostat, will change this when I get a chance. My respect for the FIRE lump has gone up immeasurably however, as it was running for a good 10 minutes with the tempo guage there without a complaint. Not ideal I know, but I had a job interview to get to. It has run fine since as well.
The other news was that being made redundant gave me a good chance to give it a damn good wash, wax and t-cut. After washing I was still left with paint discolouration like the below all over the bodywork.
Not sure how well the camera has picked it up, but you should see a greying round the door handle. A Couple of days elbow grease with a combination of
Turtle Wax Zip Wax
Car Plan T-Cut
Turtle Wax Car Polish
AutoGlym Super Glass Cleaner
Turtle Wax Extreme Wheels
my pride and joy was left looking like this.
She had 2x Avon ZV3's on the front and I've got some Black Polish and some Bug Remover for her next wash. I'm still loving driving round in her when she works - with that induction and the exhaust not strictly speaking being attached tunnel runs are GREAT
- I'd just like to get to the bottom of the starting and cooling issues, as frankly, I'm getting stumped. She's still proving more reliable than my Golfs, as through all her problems she hasnt left me stranded yet. Thanks everyone again if you've sat through my drivel and banger pictures. Also if you've had a Punto with these issues, let me know.
Kind Regards.
Bodhi, don't and haven't had a punto, but being a bit of a Fiat geek ive had the fire engine before, and they are resiliant buggers to say the least!
Ive got the big sister to the Punto, the Bravo and know where you are coming from re the quirks and charm, its a tad insatiable, and not really explainable all at once.
Cooling issue I'm not 100% sure on, my guess would be a duff thermostat, but if it keeps overheating and loosing water, try some radweld, you may have a leak somewhere that you cant see.
For the rear breaks, don't just try finding a Punto GT, look for Marea's and Bravo's aswell, as the HGT's rear breaks are the same, so the same goes for the 2.0 Marea's. Plus its a simple bolt on job. Only new parts you will need are pads and discs along with GT handbreak cables. (ill post a guide on how to do the conversion for you later on)
Re the lowering, try eibach springs mated to KYB dampers, the dampers are an OE+ job and cheap and the eibachs are very good quality, lowering upto 30mm (usually more like 20) and are both supple yet harder if that makes any sense.
i would give the interior a hoover aswell, and get some dash wipes makes cleaning the interior plasics a doddle (personally as a smoker that sight is making my dinnerwant to make a return visit!)
Ive got the big sister to the Punto, the Bravo and know where you are coming from re the quirks and charm, its a tad insatiable, and not really explainable all at once.
Cooling issue I'm not 100% sure on, my guess would be a duff thermostat, but if it keeps overheating and loosing water, try some radweld, you may have a leak somewhere that you cant see.
For the rear breaks, don't just try finding a Punto GT, look for Marea's and Bravo's aswell, as the HGT's rear breaks are the same, so the same goes for the 2.0 Marea's. Plus its a simple bolt on job. Only new parts you will need are pads and discs along with GT handbreak cables. (ill post a guide on how to do the conversion for you later on)
Re the lowering, try eibach springs mated to KYB dampers, the dampers are an OE+ job and cheap and the eibachs are very good quality, lowering upto 30mm (usually more like 20) and are both supple yet harder if that makes any sense.
i would give the interior a hoover aswell, and get some dash wipes makes cleaning the interior plasics a doddle (personally as a smoker that sight is making my dinnerwant to make a return visit!)
Interesting read, thanks for the effort 
The “FIRE” engine range is indeed a triumph of engineering, I agree, although I only have measly 1.2 8v unit in my ’98 60S. The temp gauge in the red was a common sight to me before I replaced the knackered head gasket (very common on these as you probably know). But I must congratulate you, whereas mine hovered in the red zone, yours is really off the gauge 
Mine overheated many, many times before I repaired it, and the head wasn’t warped or damaged when I finally did the job, as Andy sx says, resiliant. I’m not sure how much harder the 16v is to work on, but the 8v is so easy. It's one thing I love about these engines, so simple, I’ve never worked on an engine in my life, but I just read the Haynes until I understood how everything worked and where it was, and have so far done the head gasket, cambelt/timing, water pump, thermostat, and usual stuff like oil, filters and bleeding cooling system. Just for your interest, here’s a pic of what I found when I took the head off after loads of overheating and monster water usage. This is how I found it, totally steam cleaned piston!! 
The “FIRE” engine range is indeed a triumph of engineering, I agree, although I only have measly 1.2 8v unit in my ’98 60S. The temp gauge in the red was a common sight to me before I replaced the knackered head gasket (very common on these as you probably know). But I must congratulate you, whereas mine hovered in the red zone, yours is really off the gauge Mine overheated many, many times before I repaired it, and the head wasn’t warped or damaged when I finally did the job, as Andy sx says, resiliant. I’m not sure how much harder the 16v is to work on, but the 8v is so easy. It's one thing I love about these engines, so simple, I’ve never worked on an engine in my life, but I just read the Haynes until I understood how everything worked and where it was, and have so far done the head gasket, cambelt/timing, water pump, thermostat, and usual stuff like oil, filters and bleeding cooling system. Just for your interest, here’s a pic of what I found when I took the head off after loads of overheating and monster water usage. This is how I found it, totally steam cleaned piston!! That is my worry that the head gasket is on the way out, however there's no oil in the water or vice versa, and as mentioned it hasn't overheated once, just got bloody hot. When the guage was there the engine was running 100%. I'm also going shopping for an ignition coil as its the only part of the ignition I havent changed, as the starting and running issues seem identical to when the other one went. Lets hope both work, as I doubt I'd manage a head gasket myself (didnt have the strength to loosen a sump nut so I doubt I'd manage head bolts), so would be looking at 300 notes to get it done at a garage. Not excessive for the job, but still not nice when you're unemployed.
In fairness, K&N got to 57i before they got an induction kit that worked, and some on Fiatforum would argue they still haven't got it right 
. I'm on version 3d, 4d will get made tomorrow when I fit the ignition coil and pour in some Radweld. I'm losing water but only down to a particular level - so I do think I have a small leak somewhere. Given that it says on the bottle its safe to use with antifreeze, I take it I'm ok to put them both in at the same time? For the last week or so I've just been adding water to try and flush the system, need to put some of that in tomorrow as well.
. I'm on version 3d, 4d will get made tomorrow when I fit the ignition coil and pour in some Radweld. I'm losing water but only down to a particular level - so I do think I have a small leak somewhere. Given that it says on the bottle its safe to use with antifreeze, I take it I'm ok to put them both in at the same time? For the last week or so I've just been adding water to try and flush the system, need to put some of that in tomorrow as well. When I first tried to get my sump plug out, it took me ages as well. It's just one of those awkward jobs the first time you do it. I bought a beasty torque wrench, primarily to do the head bolts, but it works a treat on the sump plug as well. The head bolts are no effort at all with a nice long torque wrench.
Don't worry too much about the engine oil sump plug. If you buy a boat engine oil extractor (I have one of these http://www.gelplane.co.uk/pelapumps/6000use.asp) you can get the oil out without going underneath. That'll save you the cost of ramps and tools.
As for the airlocks, have you tried removing the rad cap/reservoir cap with the engine running (when cold!) and massaging the pipes to burp air out?
As for the airlocks, have you tried removing the rad cap/reservoir cap with the engine running (when cold!) and massaging the pipes to burp air out?
Cheers Tom I'll try that next time the cooling system plays up. It has been rock solid today on my travels after I changed the expansion cap, I believe the old one may have had a slight leak. Just off to change the ignition coil and clear up the dashboard, I will post a full update later as I have had good news on the exhaust too.
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