Bad, bad Panda

[Nigel_O]

Anyone that's tried uploading a photo to Flickr will probably have come across the failed upload message - quite possibly the most viewed photo on Flickr



Anyway - the story....

Eighteen months ago, having sold my turbo-nutter modified Fiat Coupe, I part-exed my ultra-leggy Alfa GT diesel and bought a 'cheap' V8 Vantage. Six months later, I fell out of love with my Westfield and sold that too. The idea was that I'd always have access to my wife's Volvo XC60 if I needed space or room for more than one passenger.

However, Wifey has now bought another horse and goes to the horse yard twice a day, meaning the Volvo is only available with plenty of prior planning and only for short periods. This has meant using the V8V as my daily, which in turn means it's getting absolutely filthy.

So - I decided I needed a shed. The dealer I bought the Aston from offered me my GT back for the £1k he gave me for it, but the insurance premium was about £350 (just over double the Aston ), so I shelved that idea (for now, at least...). I decided I'd like 4WD, so I can go out doing photography in the middle of winter. The GT on winter tyres was great for that, but it still had its limits.

Having looked at Dusters, Octavia 4x4, and man-maths inspired Audi Allroads, my wife suggested that if I bought something too comfortable, I'd probably never drive the Aston. So, the search was on for something practical(ish), but slow and noisy enough to make me get the Aston out of the garage for anything other than short distances, or inclement weather.

Having done a fair bit of reading on PH, it seems there's quite a bit of love for Pandas, especially the 4WD, so I decided on a Mk2 (169) Panda 4x4, but found they were holding their money really well - anything under £2k was shabby and leggy and anything clean was £3k+. Then I found a tatty, but allegedly solid example.

3 hours with a one-way ticket on a train from the Midlands to Kent to view it - kicked some tyres, found a few faults not mentioned in the ad and 30 minutes later, I'd parted with £1,100 and was the owner of a very scruffy, very mucky, bad, bad Panda 4x4. The only rust is on stuff like suspension components, which can be replaced cheaply and easily. The body and underside is remarkably free of tin-worm, especially for a cheap tinny Italian city car with 117,000 miles on it.





Looks like someone has been carrying stuff straight on the roof...



And the rear bumper is properly knackered...



190 miles trip home taught me a few things....

1) Hills really are a thing when you've only got 59bhp
2) The clutch slave cylinder is toast - gets really creaky and sticky when warm - entertaining in traffic on the M25
3) Something is clunking at the rear end - probably a shock bush

I had a quick go at cleaning up the piston rod for the slave cylinder, but it didn't make much difference.



Painted up the battery tray while it was out, as it was by far the rustiest thing on the car.



I have an annoying habit of wanting cars to look good, so it's going be hard work resisting having the numerous scratches and dings sorted. I'd like to get the mechanicals good so it's reliable. I'll sort the interior at some point - carpets need a good washing, but I've spent the day working on the dash and doorcards with a toothbrush to get years of ingrained dirt out of the textured plastic. At least it doesn't look like I'm going to catch something now.

Closer inspection of the paperwork shows it has full service history(!), a very recent full exhaust, a new alternator and all new belts, plus a recent full set of winter tyres (never heard of the make before, so I'm not expecting them to be amazing).

More to follow as I can be bothered.....

[mdk1]

Bookmarked, would love a Panda 4x4 just for winter use and a little off road fun.

[redandwhite]

Rear end clunk could be shockers - the top bush wears on them. Worth checking the rear beam and getting some protection on it whilst you are there.

[Nigel_O]

redandwhite said:

Rear end clunk could be shockers - the top bush wears on them. Worth checking the rear beam and getting some protection on it whilst you are there.

I was thinking it sounded like a shock absorber - it feels a bit bouncy at the rear, so they probably need replacing anyway.

[airsafari87]

I guarantee that the little thing will get under your skin.

I have a 2019 Panda Cross 4x4 and it’s a mega little thing.

[acme]

I too shall follow. Ideally I’ll need a shed/winter car next winter & 4x4 makes a lot of sense living where I do but I don’t like SUV’s so one of these was my first thought.

As per your wife’s comment my thought was to not get something so good the others don’t get used, but I’m
not sure I’d want to use something really bad. A fine balance.

Cheers

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Fantastic, enjoy it! The knock in the rear will likely be the shocks. Cheap enough to buy a new pair and dead easy to change yourself.

I bought our Panda (2015 1.2 petrol 'Lounge') from a dealer in 2019 with 12,000 miles on, it's now knocking on the door of 60,000 and has been the best small car I've ever owned. So cheap to own and run, I've serviced it myself every year and might treat it to some new discs and pads soon. Because of the way things are, it seems to have actually appreciated slightly in value on what I bought it for, and I keep threatening to buy a 4x4, albeit a Mk.4 (319).

[Nigel_O]

I’ll do a lot of the ‘re-commissioning’ work myself, but there are some bits I’ll trust to a garage. I used to work part-time at Motormech in Birmingham (well-respected Alfa / Fiat specialist) so I’m entrusting the car to them for a thorough check of the mechanicals. The list will probably grow by the time it’s on their ramps, but so far includes:

Full service
Replace the clutch slave cylinder
Investigate the brakes dragging on full lock (probably a collapsing flexi brake hose)
Check the air con - no gas in it, so it’s obviously got a leak somewhere
Check the knocking at the rear - expecting to need shocks.

I’d like to spend as little as I can, but I want Bad Panda to be Good Panda as far as the oily bits are concerned. Even if I get a £500 bill, I won’t be too miffed, as I’ll know the car is sorted. Given the bargain-basement purchase price, I’ll still be in a cheap car and there was no guarantee that a £2k+ Panda wouldn’t also have needed a few quid spending on it.

[trickywoo]

My dad had one with a rear clonk, turned out to be diff related.

He also said it was catastrophically slow. 59 crank bhp must be in the 30s wheel with the 4wd losses.

Edited by trickywoo on Monday 3rd April 12:26

[Lecket]

Very cool, and a good price!

I've recently picked up a 2014 "pop" 1.2 and it's such good fun to drive. Really wanted a 4x4, but poor MPG of the Twinair and propshaft bearing issues put me off, plus they were strong money for same year/mileage (think an extra £3k minimum)

[Nigel_O]

airsafari87 said:

I guarantee that the little thing will get under your skin.

I have a 2019 Panda Cross 4x4 and it’s a mega little thing.

I can see that happening already - I’m going to have to work really hard to stop myself restoring it to perfect condition.

I also looked at the Mk3 Cross - brilliant-looking little thing, but holding their money very well - I saw one at below £6k a few weeks ago, but it was sold within a day of being advertised (more money than I wanted spend anyway, but man-maths might have persuaded me)

[seiben]

This should be fun

Kent's a great place for cheap cars - London is in the way, so most people cba to trek down there. I've had some excellent Kentish sheds over the years!

[redandwhite]

Nigel_O said:

I’ll do a lot of the ‘re-commissioning’ work myself, but there are some bits I’ll trust to a garage. I used to work part-time at Motormech in Birmingham (well-respected Alfa / Fiat specialist) so I’m entrusting the car to them for a thorough check of the mechanicals. The list will probably grow by the time it’s on their ramps, but so far includes:

Full service
Replace the clutch slave cylinder
Investigate the brakes dragging on full lock (probably a collapsing flexi brake hose)
Check the air con - no gas in it, so it’s obviously got a leak somewhere
Check the knocking at the rear - expecting to need shocks.

I’d like to spend as little as I can, but I want Bad Panda to be Good Panda as far as the oily bits are concerned. Even if I get a £500 bill, I won’t be too miffed, as I’ll know the car is sorted. Given the bargain-basement purchase price, I’ll still be in a cheap car and there was no guarantee that a £2k+ Panda wouldn’t also have needed a few quid spending on it.

Panda is dead easy to work on, if you want to save money DIY it.

[FieldAtlanta]

Love it! From another owner of a 100k+ bargain basement Panda, i can honestly say they’re a hoot and you’ll start to enjoy owning it far more than you ‘should’. I stand by the fact that a 59bhp Panda is the best bang for buck upgrade to any performance car - it’s made my low-powered Cayman feel like a GT3 when I get back in it.

Oh and “The clutch slave cylinder is toast - gets really creaky and sticky when warm”. Yep, that. I’m waiting until mine stops squeaking on its own.

[Nigel_O]

Oops - found some rust….

I’m a bit annoyed that I missed this when I checked over the car. The offside of the car has been jacked on the sill, rather than the seam and it’s crushed the sill slightly. This has obviously broken the paint and it has rusted. I’ve just put my finger through it, so it’s pretty crusty…

I have a MIG welder and I can probably get some sheet steel, so I may have a crack at it myself - how hard can it be?….

[J4CKO]

Nigel_O said:

Oops - found some rust….

I’m a bit annoyed that I missed this when I checked over the car. The offside of the car has been jacked on the sill, rather than the seam and it’s crushed the sill slightly. This has obviously broken the paint and it has rusted. I’ve just put my finger through it, so it’s pretty crusty…

I have a MIG welder and I can probably get some sheet steel, so I may have a crack at it myself - how hard can it be?….

Its not that hard, watch a few YouTube videos, practice on some sheet steel until you can glue it together reliably, cut the grot out, make cardboard templates and tack it in, then weld it properly, grind your dodgy looking welds back with a flap disk and then slather it in Schultz !

Oh, and it gets very, very hot, remember to peel carpets and stuff on the other side out of the way, and have a host handy with the water one, ask me how I know...

You will need some welding magnets, clamps and stuff, oh, spare tips as well, welding gas as it always runs out at the most inopportune moment, plus a decent mask, ffs dont look at the torch unless, you can simulate how that feels by rubbing sharp sand in your eyes.

When does the 20VT motor get fitted ?

[Nigel_O]

J4CKO said:

When does the 20VT motor get fitted ?

That would be entertaining, but I’m guessing it would involve a fair bit of effort and even more money

I’ve done a bit of welding before and I have all the kit ready. It will only be 1.0 - 1.5mm, so my little MIG will cope just fine. It’s the outer sill too, so not too much worry about setting the interior alight…

That’s the plastic rear wheel arch trim at the top of the photo - I guess the rust will go under there, but hopefully not as far back as the arch where the shapes get harder to replicate. That said, I can get a full sill section for about £50, but if it’s that bad, I’ll give the job to my friendly body shop.

[J4CKO]

Nigel_O said:

J4CKO said:

When does the 20VT motor get fitted ?

That would be entertaining, but I’m guessing it would involve a fair bit of effort and even more money

I’ve done a bit of welding before and I have all the kit ready. It will only be 1.0 - 1.5mm, so my little MIG will cope just fine. It’s the outer sill too, so not too much worry about setting the interior alight…

That’s the plastic rear wheel arch trim at the top of the photo - I guess the rust will go under there, but hopefully not as far back as the arch where the shapes get harder to replicate. That said, I can get a full sill section for about £50, but if it’s that bad, I’ll give the job to my friendly body shop.

Looks straightforward enough just a flat patch in a non visible area, pop the plastic rivet out, secure it out of the way and take a look, then just use a 1mm cutting disk and remove the rotten metal back to good (as good as Italian steel gets..) metal, I would hold a piece of white A4 card or paper over the resultant hole and use my by then dirty fingers to do a kind of brass rubbing by holding the card over the hole which will give you a perfect outline of the patch you need to make.

Put the card on a bit of appropriate steel and cut it out using your cutting disk/metal shears, maybe a bit of weldthru primer on the back first, offer it up to the hole and trim/file accordingly until it fits, wouldn't bother trying to do any fancy joints, then use a magnet to hold it in place, tack it in a few places then run a bead of weld slowly, allowing it to cool to avoid distortion thought its not in a critical place where you will see it, strength and not attracting the MOT mans Toffee hammer of doom are your main aims.

Then flat it all back with a flap disk and apply a decent etch primer, then your choice of protection. Doesnt need to be too fancy as done right it will outlive the car anyway, and your new bit will last ages, and if you can get some kind of Waxoil/Dinotrol into the cavity afterwards then thats even better.

Its 16 years old so not doing too bad compared to Italian cars of old if thats all the rust it has.

Will probably find you spend loads of time and money on it, beyond its supposed value, but if you are keeping it, doesn't matter and I find sorting stuff like that very satisfying. I think folk are getting more like that in some cases post Covid, its a cost vs value thing, not verythign has to be just based on bare numbers.

I look forward to seeing the after pictures !

[Downward]

Mine got me through Winter but it’s sold. Can’t be commuting 2 and a bit hours per day in it. Novelty wears off after a while.

[QBee]

When you finally get bored with 59bhp and long list of problems, perhaps consider 136 bhp of Nissan X Trail 2.2 diesel loveliness for under £2000.
Strong enough to tow a single horse in a horse trailer, or a caravan. Not too bad on the fuel economy front.