w211 - the family car
Discussion
How it happened:
Wind the clock back to middle of last year and I was getting a bit fed up of our e-class estate (2016 E350). I never really liked it due to the Max Power styling of the front end in particular. I didn't like the thick flat-bottom steering wheel either. I thought the leather on the seats was fake... it probably was.
So I sold it.
I started looking on all the places where you go to search for cars and found an absolutely gorgeous (to me) green 2007 Mercedes E500 estate (v8 5 litre) with low mileage, high spec and a cream interior. EVERYTHING I wanted in one car. Unfortunately something went wrong with eBay when I tried to bid on it and I missed out. I would have paid more than the eBay final selling price but a technical problem prevented my bid from being taken and I didn't win it.
So feeling rather dejected and forlorn having missed out on the ideal family car and knowing there wouldn't be another one I did what every sensible person would do when looking for an estate and I bought a coupe. Namely a CL500, a nice example thereof.
For practical purposes I also bought a Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 which was supposed to be economical with 5 doors, for doing school runs and hammering on the miles.
After a little while with this combination of vehicles I realised I had no way of carrying anything large, no way of going to the tip if we missed the once a month black bin collection... and with it coming up to Christmas no way of buying a decent sized Christmas tree!
What next:
So if looking for an estate car why buy a small estate... it makes very little sense. I can see why some people would but as a serial owner of E Class estates I was more or less looking for an e-Class. I spent some time looking at the Volvo 960 / V90 and some of those are really lovely but the Mrs decided she didn't want to drive the Corsa so we sold that. It couldn't be a Volvo due to lack of diesel option, it would have to be the big car and replace the diesel Corsa to be used every day.
The e-class would have to be diesel and it would have to have 7-seats. This is the minimum spec. After W211 7-seats are extremely rare, also as mentioned previously the quality and styling of W212 and later with fake leather and too much bling isn't appealing to me.
...and what about a sunroof! Hardly any e-class estates have a sunroof. I managed to find an ideal car at a dealer but he was making it so difficult for me to buy the car by not being available when I was and then going on holiday for a prolonged period of time I ended up looking elsewhere.
ENTER MEGA-SPEC:
I'm not all that sensible when it comes to buying cars. Being pretty mechanically competent (I used to run a vehicle workshop) I'm not afraid of problems. I don't like bad bodywork because that's hard to deal with.
I came across this ad on eBay for a MEGASPEC merc:
Things which attracted me to the car were:
- The spec, obviously
- Gearbox service
- Engine service
- New brakes
- New tyres
- potentially mapped
I liked where it was parked, in a nice looking neighbourhood under dappled trees. I liked that it wasn't silver.
The Reality:
The seller was pushing a pack of lies!
This car was nowhere near as good as the advert suggests. First of all he offered to pick me up from the station, then drove to Tesco's carpark for a look around the car. At this point I was beginning to see how bad this car really was. The alloy wheels had been dusted with a spray can to cover up peeling paint, kerb rash and corrosion. They looked okay from a distance but in reality were turd. The new tyres were a mixed bag of part-worns... if you read carefully what he said he is making out as if the tyres have been changed but they've been changed for old tyres so essentially a useless transaction from a buyers perspective but he decided to mention it.
As we were driving along he was constantly playing with the distronic (radar cruise) showing me how good it was. Truthfully the reason he was doing this was to hide the fact that the car dashboard was screaming with warning lights, multiple. But if you keep playing with the cruise control they disappear for a few minutes!
I jumped behind the wheel for a bit and the car was pulling badly to the left. All Mercs pull to the left but this one was tugging much more than normal to the point where it was unpleasant to drive. There was also vibration from wheels not being balanced.
I convinced him to allow us to complete the deal at his house as I didn't want to be counting money in a carpark. Pretty standard practice to buy a car from the registered keeper's abode. In this case it turned out to be a tiny little hovel with stuff everywhere... not the same place where it was photographed.
Having a look around the car I found the offside exhaust backbox had been removed so the fumes from that side were exiting under the car - lovely! This wasn't mentioned on the advert but it turns out the seller has the part on the floor next to his dining table. I suspect he had tried to fit it but it wouldn't go straight on so was going to hope a potential buyer didn't realise. If everything else was lies then why not lie about this as well!
My difficulty was having spent £80 on a train ticket to come and collect what seemed a good car from a distance I was determined I wouldn't be spending another £80 to travel back without the car. £160 for nothing would suck hard!
The new brakes were on the back only and there was no receipt for the 'full gearbox service' - so probably hasn't been done!
Oh... and the 7-seat system was incomplete. The base that you sit on was missing so the seats couldn't be used.
I sat down at his dining table and added up about £2k worth of repairs. From there we agreed a new price for which whilst I was not entirely happy I would 'risk it' and spend what I had saved on the purchase price for fixing and repairing it.
So there was me, stuck with a really sheddy Merc but it had a sunroof, it had airmatic suspension, real leather and distronic cruise and most of that is impossible to add / hard to find. A bad unicorn, but a unicorn nonetheless.
After getting a chance to fully check it out the full list of repairs is as follows:
- Brake warning on dash
- Airmatic warning on dash
- SRS warning on dash (to be fair, he did mention this)
- Glow plug light (was on and off but came on full time)
- Engine warning light and limp mode started on the way home
- AUX lead for stereo doesn't work
- Wheels were scabby
- Tyres not good
- Could smell diesel fumes
- SAT NAV says it can't read the disc
- Electronic steering wheel adjustment inoperative
- Exhaust backbox missing (I took the part he had)
- Steering tugging left
- Wheels not balanced
- 7-seat squab missing
- massage seats not working
Fixing her up:
First stop was to bring her to my favourite wheel and tyre shop. I used to use them when I was in the trade and know them well. They've never let me down and always performed top quality work. They gave me some temporary wheels and got mine refurbished. I went with a single colour on the basis with this being a daily driver it would be a mistake to have the polished lip. I got Fulda Sport Contact 2 tyres all round as they are one of the quietest tyres you can get and even with 18-inch rims on most of the cars I've had recently they are comparatively very quiet tyres, ideal. The wheels were balanced and the tracking sorted.
Next the exhaust. I told the guy I suspected the part would not go straight on and I was right. He would have fitted it if he could have. I took it to my favourite exhaust shop and they did the necessary welding and bracketry to get the exhaust fitted.
By this stage it was down to me to work through the niggles and that about brings us up to date.
I fixed the brake warning by replacing the brake light switch. That was £8.
I've invested around £30 on new diagnostic gear I can use with my laptop to get higher level diagnostics capability so I can interrogate the SRS and airmatic warnings.
I started to look for the glow plug relay as different versions of this car have different relays and when I removed the engine cover I found one of the diesel injectors was pumping diesel out into the top of the engine cover. Upon further investigation it turns out this is a known fault with the older in-line 6. The later v-6 has issues with the oil-cooler o-rings. So which common problem do you prefer, make a choice!
This diesel leak is an awful thing to have going on so I wanted it sorted straight away. I found a good video on YouTube showing the problem. The guy recommended putting silicone on the end of the injector to seal it. I tried that and it worked for about 1 minute (after allowing it 24 hours to dry).
Aside from the smell it was filling up the foam insert in the top of the cylinder head which was decaying. The diesel sitting on top of the engine turns into plastic and was hardening all around the top of the injector and neighbouring injectors. A really horrible thing.
After the silicone didn't work I took it out and managed to get the copper washer out of the bottom of the tube with a hook. This was the problem, it had been squashed and gone oblong and wasn't sealing. I put the injector back after extensive cleaning with a smear of rapid set chemical metal instead of silicone and now the leak has stopped. So the weird diesel smell should disappear over time as it all burns off.
I've sourced a lower seat squab for the 7-seat setup so that works now.
The EML was a problem with the electronic boost controller but for the meantime that has fixed itself. (my favourite kind of fix)
I have to wait for the diagnostics gear to arrive but in the meantime happy with progress so far.
With the wheels and tyres all sorted:
The interior:
I knew what sort of a mess I was getting myself into but it was awkward because the guy was selling it for top money and pretending it was a good car so it was an almighty price correction required to make this deal acceptable to me. There are more problems than what I'd like to be dealing with but with it being such an old car the problems are known and fixes documented. I'll battle through the remaining fixes over the coming months and hope to have an error free car and error free dashboard by the summer.
And I used it on the weekend to collect a really big Christmas tree.
Wind the clock back to middle of last year and I was getting a bit fed up of our e-class estate (2016 E350). I never really liked it due to the Max Power styling of the front end in particular. I didn't like the thick flat-bottom steering wheel either. I thought the leather on the seats was fake... it probably was.
So I sold it.
I started looking on all the places where you go to search for cars and found an absolutely gorgeous (to me) green 2007 Mercedes E500 estate (v8 5 litre) with low mileage, high spec and a cream interior. EVERYTHING I wanted in one car. Unfortunately something went wrong with eBay when I tried to bid on it and I missed out. I would have paid more than the eBay final selling price but a technical problem prevented my bid from being taken and I didn't win it.
So feeling rather dejected and forlorn having missed out on the ideal family car and knowing there wouldn't be another one I did what every sensible person would do when looking for an estate and I bought a coupe. Namely a CL500, a nice example thereof.
For practical purposes I also bought a Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 which was supposed to be economical with 5 doors, for doing school runs and hammering on the miles.
After a little while with this combination of vehicles I realised I had no way of carrying anything large, no way of going to the tip if we missed the once a month black bin collection... and with it coming up to Christmas no way of buying a decent sized Christmas tree!
What next:
So if looking for an estate car why buy a small estate... it makes very little sense. I can see why some people would but as a serial owner of E Class estates I was more or less looking for an e-Class. I spent some time looking at the Volvo 960 / V90 and some of those are really lovely but the Mrs decided she didn't want to drive the Corsa so we sold that. It couldn't be a Volvo due to lack of diesel option, it would have to be the big car and replace the diesel Corsa to be used every day.
The e-class would have to be diesel and it would have to have 7-seats. This is the minimum spec. After W211 7-seats are extremely rare, also as mentioned previously the quality and styling of W212 and later with fake leather and too much bling isn't appealing to me.
...and what about a sunroof! Hardly any e-class estates have a sunroof. I managed to find an ideal car at a dealer but he was making it so difficult for me to buy the car by not being available when I was and then going on holiday for a prolonged period of time I ended up looking elsewhere.
ENTER MEGA-SPEC:
I'm not all that sensible when it comes to buying cars. Being pretty mechanically competent (I used to run a vehicle workshop) I'm not afraid of problems. I don't like bad bodywork because that's hard to deal with.
I came across this ad on eBay for a MEGASPEC merc:
Things which attracted me to the car were:
- The spec, obviously
- Gearbox service
- Engine service
- New brakes
- New tyres
- potentially mapped
I liked where it was parked, in a nice looking neighbourhood under dappled trees. I liked that it wasn't silver.
The Reality:
The seller was pushing a pack of lies!
This car was nowhere near as good as the advert suggests. First of all he offered to pick me up from the station, then drove to Tesco's carpark for a look around the car. At this point I was beginning to see how bad this car really was. The alloy wheels had been dusted with a spray can to cover up peeling paint, kerb rash and corrosion. They looked okay from a distance but in reality were turd. The new tyres were a mixed bag of part-worns... if you read carefully what he said he is making out as if the tyres have been changed but they've been changed for old tyres so essentially a useless transaction from a buyers perspective but he decided to mention it.
As we were driving along he was constantly playing with the distronic (radar cruise) showing me how good it was. Truthfully the reason he was doing this was to hide the fact that the car dashboard was screaming with warning lights, multiple. But if you keep playing with the cruise control they disappear for a few minutes!
I jumped behind the wheel for a bit and the car was pulling badly to the left. All Mercs pull to the left but this one was tugging much more than normal to the point where it was unpleasant to drive. There was also vibration from wheels not being balanced.
I convinced him to allow us to complete the deal at his house as I didn't want to be counting money in a carpark. Pretty standard practice to buy a car from the registered keeper's abode. In this case it turned out to be a tiny little hovel with stuff everywhere... not the same place where it was photographed.
Having a look around the car I found the offside exhaust backbox had been removed so the fumes from that side were exiting under the car - lovely! This wasn't mentioned on the advert but it turns out the seller has the part on the floor next to his dining table. I suspect he had tried to fit it but it wouldn't go straight on so was going to hope a potential buyer didn't realise. If everything else was lies then why not lie about this as well!
My difficulty was having spent £80 on a train ticket to come and collect what seemed a good car from a distance I was determined I wouldn't be spending another £80 to travel back without the car. £160 for nothing would suck hard!
The new brakes were on the back only and there was no receipt for the 'full gearbox service' - so probably hasn't been done!
Oh... and the 7-seat system was incomplete. The base that you sit on was missing so the seats couldn't be used.
I sat down at his dining table and added up about £2k worth of repairs. From there we agreed a new price for which whilst I was not entirely happy I would 'risk it' and spend what I had saved on the purchase price for fixing and repairing it.
So there was me, stuck with a really sheddy Merc but it had a sunroof, it had airmatic suspension, real leather and distronic cruise and most of that is impossible to add / hard to find. A bad unicorn, but a unicorn nonetheless.
After getting a chance to fully check it out the full list of repairs is as follows:
- Brake warning on dash
- Airmatic warning on dash
- SRS warning on dash (to be fair, he did mention this)
- Glow plug light (was on and off but came on full time)
- Engine warning light and limp mode started on the way home
- AUX lead for stereo doesn't work
- Wheels were scabby
- Tyres not good
- Could smell diesel fumes
- SAT NAV says it can't read the disc
- Electronic steering wheel adjustment inoperative
- Exhaust backbox missing (I took the part he had)
- Steering tugging left
- Wheels not balanced
- 7-seat squab missing
- massage seats not working
Fixing her up:
First stop was to bring her to my favourite wheel and tyre shop. I used to use them when I was in the trade and know them well. They've never let me down and always performed top quality work. They gave me some temporary wheels and got mine refurbished. I went with a single colour on the basis with this being a daily driver it would be a mistake to have the polished lip. I got Fulda Sport Contact 2 tyres all round as they are one of the quietest tyres you can get and even with 18-inch rims on most of the cars I've had recently they are comparatively very quiet tyres, ideal. The wheels were balanced and the tracking sorted.
Next the exhaust. I told the guy I suspected the part would not go straight on and I was right. He would have fitted it if he could have. I took it to my favourite exhaust shop and they did the necessary welding and bracketry to get the exhaust fitted.
By this stage it was down to me to work through the niggles and that about brings us up to date.
I fixed the brake warning by replacing the brake light switch. That was £8.
I've invested around £30 on new diagnostic gear I can use with my laptop to get higher level diagnostics capability so I can interrogate the SRS and airmatic warnings.
I started to look for the glow plug relay as different versions of this car have different relays and when I removed the engine cover I found one of the diesel injectors was pumping diesel out into the top of the engine cover. Upon further investigation it turns out this is a known fault with the older in-line 6. The later v-6 has issues with the oil-cooler o-rings. So which common problem do you prefer, make a choice!
This diesel leak is an awful thing to have going on so I wanted it sorted straight away. I found a good video on YouTube showing the problem. The guy recommended putting silicone on the end of the injector to seal it. I tried that and it worked for about 1 minute (after allowing it 24 hours to dry).
Aside from the smell it was filling up the foam insert in the top of the cylinder head which was decaying. The diesel sitting on top of the engine turns into plastic and was hardening all around the top of the injector and neighbouring injectors. A really horrible thing.
After the silicone didn't work I took it out and managed to get the copper washer out of the bottom of the tube with a hook. This was the problem, it had been squashed and gone oblong and wasn't sealing. I put the injector back after extensive cleaning with a smear of rapid set chemical metal instead of silicone and now the leak has stopped. So the weird diesel smell should disappear over time as it all burns off.
I've sourced a lower seat squab for the 7-seat setup so that works now.
The EML was a problem with the electronic boost controller but for the meantime that has fixed itself. (my favourite kind of fix)
I have to wait for the diagnostics gear to arrive but in the meantime happy with progress so far.
With the wheels and tyres all sorted:
The interior:
I knew what sort of a mess I was getting myself into but it was awkward because the guy was selling it for top money and pretending it was a good car so it was an almighty price correction required to make this deal acceptable to me. There are more problems than what I'd like to be dealing with but with it being such an old car the problems are known and fixes documented. I'll battle through the remaining fixes over the coming months and hope to have an error free car and error free dashboard by the summer.
And I used it on the weekend to collect a really big Christmas tree.
Edited by ingenieur on Tuesday 6th December 15:23
Great spec w211, I really liked my e320cdi however found it quite uninspiring to drive.
I've done the injector job, can I ask what you were doing with chemical metal? The fix is well documented: remove the injectors, clean up the seats with a wooden dowel, fit new copper washers (from memory I think Honda cdti ones were recommended back when I did the job but I might be mistaken) and Refit!
I've done the injector job, can I ask what you were doing with chemical metal? The fix is well documented: remove the injectors, clean up the seats with a wooden dowel, fit new copper washers (from memory I think Honda cdti ones were recommended back when I did the job but I might be mistaken) and Refit!
The Dictator said:
Wow, that's a brave purchase based on what you discovered. I would have run a bloody mile.
£160 is a small price to pay compared to the potential for massive issues connected to a car run on half a shoestring by a previous owner.
I wish you the best of luck ??
Came here to say this. ^^^^£160 is a small price to pay compared to the potential for massive issues connected to a car run on half a shoestring by a previous owner.
I wish you the best of luck ??
Good luck. I'll watch with interest.
markirl said:
Great spec w211, I really liked my e320cdi however found it quite uninspiring to drive.
I've done the injector job, can I ask what you were doing with chemical metal? The fix is well documented: remove the injectors, clean up the seats with a wooden dowel, fit new copper washers (from memory I think Honda cdti ones were recommended back when I did the job but I might be mistaken) and Refit!
The chemical metal will have the effect of gluing the washer and injector into the head and filling imperfections. Just a smear of it, not a handful. I've done a hella lot of work on cars over the years and I've no issue deviating from standard practice when problems have occurred and a better solution is required. I know it's something Mercedes could / would never do but from my point of view I've no problem with it. Some manufacturers like BMW use glue on flanges because it holds better than straight sealant. Glue with sealant in it, not pritt-stick. I've done the injector job, can I ask what you were doing with chemical metal? The fix is well documented: remove the injectors, clean up the seats with a wooden dowel, fit new copper washers (from memory I think Honda cdti ones were recommended back when I did the job but I might be mistaken) and Refit!
As for being uninspiring to drive... that's perfect. Just sit back and guide it along wallowing on the airbags.
The Dictator said:
Wow, that's a brave purchase based on what you discovered. I would have run a bloody mile.
£160 is a small price to pay compared to the potential for massive issues connected to a car run on half a shoestring by a previous owner.
I wish you the best of luck ??
Trouble is nearly every second hand car is hiding issues somewhere. This one has more than most but shouldn't expect to buy a second hand car and not spend another £500+ on fixing the "hidden features"£160 is a small price to pay compared to the potential for massive issues connected to a car run on half a shoestring by a previous owner.
I wish you the best of luck ??
My previous purchase the CL500 had a broken alternator which had also done the battery... didn't find out until a couple of days after I'd bought it and done some testing.
trails said:
littlebasher said:
Cost aside, part of the fun is putting everything right
Its almost a shame when all the niggles are fixed. Almost.Jonmx said:
I ran an E91 for a year or so recently, and fully agree about small estates. Bloody useless.
The Merc looks like it'll keep you busy, and let's be honest, we all love being able to tinker and put a car back to rights.
It is satisfying successfully accomplishing a fix. No doubt there will be a steady stream of bits and pieces to take care of during my ownership. I would just like the engine and gearbox to remain in one piece, that's my minimum expectation. The Merc looks like it'll keep you busy, and let's be honest, we all love being able to tinker and put a car back to rights.
Jonmx said:
I ran an E91 for a year or so recently, and fully agree about small estates. Bloody useless.
I disagree, I ran an e91 for a long time, to me it was an E90 with a more useable boot.....I didnt view it as 'An Estate Car', I knew it wasnt a load lugger, it was still way way more useful than an E90.Its just picking the right tool for the job, as the OP has done. Great car, will follow with interest. I feel i need a big estate with a big engine on air at some point soon
littlebasher said:
Cost aside, part of the fun is putting everything right
I mean, it is and it isn't.Not to kill the OP's buzz, but it sounds like he was pressured into paying too much for a car he didn't actually want. I'd have personally taken the hit on the train ticket, sucked up the inconvenience, and walked and found a better car, even if it meant waiting a little while.
But then I don't have the means or time to fix these kinds of problems. However, I just know I'd feel like I was constantly worrying about something else going wrong on a car that was so poorly maintained. This to me kills the enjoyment of a new car.
More power to you, OP. You're far braver than me.
C70R said:
littlebasher said:
Cost aside, part of the fun is putting everything right
I mean, it is and it isn't.Not to kill the OP's buzz, but it sounds like he was pressured into paying too much for a car he didn't actually want. I'd have personally taken the hit on the train ticket, sucked up the inconvenience, and walked and found a better car, even if it meant waiting a little while.
But then I don't have the means or time to fix these kinds of problems. However, I just know I'd feel like I was constantly worrying about something else going wrong on a car that was so poorly maintained. This to me kills the enjoyment of a new car.
More power to you, OP. You're far braver than me.
I've travelled all over the country via trains to view cars and have always been prepared to walk away and lose the cost of the ticket and my time... And I've done this more times than I have bought the car I went to see!
This is why now I ask for the full res images that the seller has taken, via email and if they're not prepared to send them on, or will only use WhatsApp and the likes, then I leave it and move onto the next...
I know everyones standards are different; but there's no way I'd have given that seller any more time after his bulls
t act...I walked away from my current E39 when I first went to see it; the weather was absolutely foul so that never helps, but the car was absolutely disgusting due to being sat around and not being used; so gave the seller the opportunity to clean it inside & out, so I could actually see what the car was like when clean/dry and presentable etc
C70R said:
littlebasher said:
Cost aside, part of the fun is putting everything right
I mean, it is and it isn't.Not to kill the OP's buzz, but it sounds like he was pressured into paying too much for a car he didn't actually want. I'd have personally taken the hit on the train ticket, sucked up the inconvenience, and walked and found a better car, even if it meant waiting a little while.
But then I don't have the means or time to fix these kinds of problems. However, I just know I'd feel like I was constantly worrying about something else going wrong on a car that was so poorly maintained. This to me kills the enjoyment of a new car.
More power to you, OP. You're far braver than me.
lemonslap said:
Christ that’s some list! The advert would of made me run a mile tbh, I saw similar even one claiming to be a museum piece before I brought my old E320cdi W211. I hope you didn’t pay more than £1500 for that?
I valued it at around £2k with the faults and got it for close to that, happy enough. lemonslap said:
The advert would of made me run a mile tbh, I saw similar even one claiming to be a museum piece before I brought my old E320cdi W211. I hope you didn’t pay more than £1500 for that?
Indeed. Quite a few red flags in there. Telling me about the "opportunity" to buy his car, describing it as "glorious", referring to it as "she". Basically sounds like someone trying to puff the value with fluffy words.I'd have scrolled straight past it.
ingenieur said:
lemonslap said:
Christ that’s some list! The advert would of made me run a mile tbh, I saw similar even one claiming to be a museum piece before I brought my old E320cdi W211. I hope you didn’t pay more than £1500 for that?
I valued it at around £2k with the faults and got it for close to that, happy enough. If your located in Kent, I still have my Mercedes diagnostics kit if I can help with some of your faults.
Edited by lemonslap on Tuesday 6th December 20:12
Surprised at how sanctimonious some posters are being on here. If you found the spec you want at a price you're happy with, and you're willing to do the work, then you're winning. Well specced S211s aren't getting any cheaper and unless the gearbox / airmatic blows up on you then you'll be fine once the work is done. These will go the same way W124s went IMO and were a return to form after Merc's QC experiment with the W210.
Plus it's not an E39 BMW so the lovely looking sills won't be hiding a rotten floorpan or jacking points!
Plus it's not an E39 BMW so the lovely looking sills won't be hiding a rotten floorpan or jacking points!
Gooly said:
Surprised at how sanctimonious some posters are being on here. If you found the spec you want at a price you're happy with, and you're willing to do the work, then you're winning. Well specced S211s aren't getting any cheaper and unless the gearbox / airmatic blows up on you then you'll be fine once the work is done. These will go the same way W124s went IMO and were a return to form after Merc's QC experiment with the W210.
Plus it's not an E39 BMW so the lovely looking sills won't be hiding a rotten floorpan or jacking points!
Not sanctimonious at all; the seller was clearly a bullsPlus it's not an E39 BMW so the lovely looking sills won't be hiding a rotten floorpan or jacking points!
t artist, that rings alarm bells straight away. No matter how good the car/spec may be, it's still a massive risk...And not every E39 is hiding rotten floorpans or rotten jacking points
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