Fiesta ST150 second chance!
Discussion
So this is a reader's car thread for my wife's ST which we have owned since December 2014.
Regulars of Readers cars may recall me posting a piece in September on our Mazda 2 which was supposed to replace the ST. The little Mazda on paper was a great second car, £30 VED, high 40s mpg around town and quite fun to drive.BUT the Mrs found the seats terrible for her bad back and the engine gutless - stupid long gearing the issue here. She pined for her old ST which sat on our drive for 6 months. So, with second hand car prices on the rise we sold the Mazda two weeks ago for £4400 (£1150 profit!) and the ST was recommisioned. Q happy wife!
As you can see it needs a new bonnet and wheel arch repair but values are on the rise and it's one of the last small, light n/a sporty hatches.
When new they had a bad press, being much slower than the Clio 182, but in reality it's similarly quick to a mk2 Golf Gti 16v which was never considered slow so it's fine.
I drove it yesterday for the first time in a while and forgot what a blast these are to drive. Crisp throttle response, low roll cornering and lovely feelsome steering (it's wonderful if you're used to a modern- loads better than my F30 BMW) - it's Prime parry -Jones era Ford fiesta ! I'm sure fellow PH mk6 fiesta fan MC Bodge (and regular reader of my focus mk1 updates) will approve!
Also, these are tough cars. Compared to the Clio 182 they give very little trouble. Chain driven Mazda derived engine and everything still feels fairly tight. having driven both I also know the Ford is more composed and less ragged on the limit than the Clio. If you think I'm talking rubbish consider this, Tiff Needell got the ST around the old Anglesey circuit just 0.9 secs slower than the much faster Clio 182.....
So what wasn't a top choice as a new car is a good second hand modern classic Ford. Honestly it really is better than the reviews suggest.
So, I'll post updates as we get the fiesta up to scratch and watch the values slowly rise whilst enjoying a small back to basics old school sporty ford. I think we've made the right choice keeping it.
Regulars of Readers cars may recall me posting a piece in September on our Mazda 2 which was supposed to replace the ST. The little Mazda on paper was a great second car, £30 VED, high 40s mpg around town and quite fun to drive.BUT the Mrs found the seats terrible for her bad back and the engine gutless - stupid long gearing the issue here. She pined for her old ST which sat on our drive for 6 months. So, with second hand car prices on the rise we sold the Mazda two weeks ago for £4400 (£1150 profit!) and the ST was recommisioned. Q happy wife!
As you can see it needs a new bonnet and wheel arch repair but values are on the rise and it's one of the last small, light n/a sporty hatches.
When new they had a bad press, being much slower than the Clio 182, but in reality it's similarly quick to a mk2 Golf Gti 16v which was never considered slow so it's fine.
I drove it yesterday for the first time in a while and forgot what a blast these are to drive. Crisp throttle response, low roll cornering and lovely feelsome steering (it's wonderful if you're used to a modern- loads better than my F30 BMW) - it's Prime parry -Jones era Ford fiesta ! I'm sure fellow PH mk6 fiesta fan MC Bodge (and regular reader of my focus mk1 updates) will approve!
Also, these are tough cars. Compared to the Clio 182 they give very little trouble. Chain driven Mazda derived engine and everything still feels fairly tight. having driven both I also know the Ford is more composed and less ragged on the limit than the Clio. If you think I'm talking rubbish consider this, Tiff Needell got the ST around the old Anglesey circuit just 0.9 secs slower than the much faster Clio 182.....
So what wasn't a top choice as a new car is a good second hand modern classic Ford. Honestly it really is better than the reviews suggest.
So, I'll post updates as we get the fiesta up to scratch and watch the values slowly rise whilst enjoying a small back to basics old school sporty ford. I think we've made the right choice keeping it.
Edited by greenarrow on Monday 18th April 11:20
Edited by greenarrow on Monday 18th April 11:29
We've got ours up on ebay at the minute, only because we need something bigger.
Echo your comments about the steering feel, nicely weighted and precise. I always felt the engine was a little flat and uninspiring but gets down the road well enough.
Other than the typical Ford rust, they are solid cars. I found with ours the interior still looks virtually brand new. No marks on the plastics and the bolsters still look fresh, cleans up really well.
Echo your comments about the steering feel, nicely weighted and precise. I always felt the engine was a little flat and uninspiring but gets down the road well enough.
Other than the typical Ford rust, they are solid cars. I found with ours the interior still looks virtually brand new. No marks on the plastics and the bolsters still look fresh, cleans up really well.
EVOTECH3BELL said:
We've got ours up on ebay at the minute, only because we need something bigger.
Echo your comments about the steering feel, nicely weighted and precise. I always felt the engine was a little flat and uninspiring but gets down the road well enough.
Other than the typical Ford rust, they are solid cars. I found with ours the interior still looks virtually brand new. No marks on the plastics and the bolsters still look fresh, cleans up really well.
Rust? That surprises me - ours hasn't got any. Agree they resist marks well. My 8 year old 3 series has more scuffs. Echo your comments about the steering feel, nicely weighted and precise. I always felt the engine was a little flat and uninspiring but gets down the road well enough.
Other than the typical Ford rust, they are solid cars. I found with ours the interior still looks virtually brand new. No marks on the plastics and the bolsters still look fresh, cleans up really well.
So an update. Fiesta not getting much use these days since we bought our daughter a Smart four two which is just easier and more economical for town trips. But I stole a drive out yesterday and was reminded what a well sorted small sporty hatch it is. I am puzzled though over prices. It's a sporty Ford and a n/a one at that yet even in a mad used car market the prices have barely moved in 2-3 years now. You can still bag one for around two grand. Just wondered why this (and maybe the ST 170) are the fast Ford exceptions that fly under the radar for people wanting a modern/future classic. Ok I get that the Clio is quicker but the mk6 ST is still a decent drive......
Ok, year end thoughts.
2024 We need to get the fiesta sorted and keep or move it on.... Must admit the original fiesta ST is a puzzle. Used values haven't moved and I do wonder if they ever will. Like the focus ST170 and Mondeo ST220 these seems to be the unloved sporty fords.
Yet I'm not sure why. It seems to tick boxes.
Modern classic hot hatch - tick.
N/a engine.. Tick...
Compact dimensions ... Tick
Analogue driving experience.... Tick...
So is it worth spending a grand or more on a car worth only two grand??
Thoughts......
2024 We need to get the fiesta sorted and keep or move it on.... Must admit the original fiesta ST is a puzzle. Used values haven't moved and I do wonder if they ever will. Like the focus ST170 and Mondeo ST220 these seems to be the unloved sporty fords.
Yet I'm not sure why. It seems to tick boxes.
Modern classic hot hatch - tick.
N/a engine.. Tick...
Compact dimensions ... Tick
Analogue driving experience.... Tick...
So is it worth spending a grand or more on a car worth only two grand??
Thoughts......
I’ve had mine over 10 years and each later generation of fiesta ST has come and gone and other “better” cars have too.
Stick with it if you like it. For me I just gelled with it, I feel confident in how it moves around etc
What work needs doing to keep it?
They are slowly dying out. The Duratec piston rings are definitely notorious, I’ve personally got 2 engines that are starting to emit a bit of oil but they are in the 110,000 miles zone.
I’m rebuilding a spare engine I have a going for slightly wilder cams and other modifications just to update/ upgrade it a bit. I have changed the wheels to 16” to improve comfort as the roads local to me are quite bad now
It got stick from journalists as the torque is lower down than other 2.0 engines due to the mild cams, but between 2,000-4,500 it does outperform those other engines. Which personally I think makes it a better road car
I use mine as a local trip car 35-42 mpg is more than achievable and fine for me. The only minor issue is the steering lock
Stick with it if you like it. For me I just gelled with it, I feel confident in how it moves around etc
What work needs doing to keep it?
They are slowly dying out. The Duratec piston rings are definitely notorious, I’ve personally got 2 engines that are starting to emit a bit of oil but they are in the 110,000 miles zone.
I’m rebuilding a spare engine I have a going for slightly wilder cams and other modifications just to update/ upgrade it a bit. I have changed the wheels to 16” to improve comfort as the roads local to me are quite bad now
It got stick from journalists as the torque is lower down than other 2.0 engines due to the mild cams, but between 2,000-4,500 it does outperform those other engines. Which personally I think makes it a better road car
I use mine as a local trip car 35-42 mpg is more than achievable and fine for me. The only minor issue is the steering lock
Edited by mintmansam on Friday 29th December 18:58
I picked up a red one for my mrs about 14 years ago now, Much the same as you, went against the grain compared to the Clio but it was a tidy car, cheap to run and fun to drive. I always wanted to make the little mods to free the breathing up and get the power nearer the Clio but never did. The mrs wanted something else and we ended up with a BMW 320d.
Fast forward to last month, I was chatting to a mate who races MX5s, he told me the engines were very similar to the Fiesta, I started thinking about another before bizarrely spotting our old one in a town 10 minutes up the road! If it wasn’t for the other cars I’ve got knocking about I’d have another for tracking.
Anyway, with regards to prices, they’re just not that old yet are they? I still see them at their bottom point of their value, lots will die off now and slowly the values will creep up but it might take a few more years yet. If you’ve held onto it to make a few bob then put it away again for a while yet.
Fast forward to last month, I was chatting to a mate who races MX5s, he told me the engines were very similar to the Fiesta, I started thinking about another before bizarrely spotting our old one in a town 10 minutes up the road! If it wasn’t for the other cars I’ve got knocking about I’d have another for tracking.
Anyway, with regards to prices, they’re just not that old yet are they? I still see them at their bottom point of their value, lots will die off now and slowly the values will creep up but it might take a few more years yet. If you’ve held onto it to make a few bob then put it away again for a while yet.
The Clio probably got/gets the attention because it has more power, but the Fiesta must be better built than it.
On the financial side, not everything needs to be an investment - if you like it, that's good enough.
Addressing the financial point, my impression is that the sporty Mk1 and 2 Escorts and the early sporty Fiestas spent decades at low prices. Also, if you swap it for something different, and even avoiding dealers' margins, there'll surely be hundreds to spend to get it to a standard you are happy with, so not much off the thousand you are thinking of spending to sort the Fiesta.
On the financial side, not everything needs to be an investment - if you like it, that's good enough.
Addressing the financial point, my impression is that the sporty Mk1 and 2 Escorts and the early sporty Fiestas spent decades at low prices. Also, if you swap it for something different, and even avoiding dealers' margins, there'll surely be hundreds to spend to get it to a standard you are happy with, so not much off the thousand you are thinking of spending to sort the Fiesta.
greenarrow said:
Ok, year end thoughts.
2024 We need to get the fiesta sorted and keep or move it on.... Must admit the original fiesta ST is a puzzle. Used values haven't moved and I do wonder if they ever will. Like the focus ST170 and Mondeo ST220 these seems to be the unloved sporty fords.
Yet I'm not sure why. It seems to tick boxes.
Modern classic hot hatch - tick.
N/a engine.. Tick...
Compact dimensions ... Tick
Analogue driving experience.... Tick...
So is it worth spending a grand or more on a car worth only two grand??
Thoughts......
Playing devils advocate a little here…2024 We need to get the fiesta sorted and keep or move it on.... Must admit the original fiesta ST is a puzzle. Used values haven't moved and I do wonder if they ever will. Like the focus ST170 and Mondeo ST220 these seems to be the unloved sporty fords.
Yet I'm not sure why. It seems to tick boxes.
Modern classic hot hatch - tick.
N/a engine.. Tick...
Compact dimensions ... Tick
Analogue driving experience.... Tick...
So is it worth spending a grand or more on a car worth only two grand??
Thoughts......
Not fast (30-50bhp down on the Clio, heavier too)
Not tuneable (NA unlike the CooperS, later ST, and newer hot hatches)
Doesn’t rev
Not economical (low mpg, high road tax)
Rust (unlike Clio’s which are galvanised)
Reputation - even more chavvy reputation than a Clio, perceived as having all had a hard life.
In summary they are seen as not as good as their rivals, so you have to really want a fast Ford / dislike the French to see one as best.
As with all cars, if you like it, then you like it, and it is usually worth the money to tidy it up a bit if that makes you happy. But I wouldn’t spend on it expecting to get that back when you sell it on, because I just don’t see these appreciating.
Disco You said:
Playing devils advocate a little here…
Not fast (30-50bhp down on the Clio, heavier too)
Not tuneable (NA unlike the CooperS, later ST, and newer hot hatches)
Doesn’t rev
Not economical (low mpg, high road tax)
Rust (unlike Clio’s which are galvanised)
Reputation - even more chavvy reputation than a Clio, perceived as having all had a hard life.
In summary they are seen as not as good as their rivals, so you have to really want a fast Ford / dislike the French to see one as best.
As with all cars, if you like it, then you like it, and it is usually worth the money to tidy it up a bit if that makes you happy. But I wouldn’t spend on it expecting to get that back when you sell it on, because I just don’t see these appreciating.
Exactly what I was saying about all the XR's 25 years ago...Not fast (30-50bhp down on the Clio, heavier too)
Not tuneable (NA unlike the CooperS, later ST, and newer hot hatches)
Doesn’t rev
Not economical (low mpg, high road tax)
Rust (unlike Clio’s which are galvanised)
Reputation - even more chavvy reputation than a Clio, perceived as having all had a hard life.
In summary they are seen as not as good as their rivals, so you have to really want a fast Ford / dislike the French to see one as best.
As with all cars, if you like it, then you like it, and it is usually worth the money to tidy it up a bit if that makes you happy. But I wouldn’t spend on it expecting to get that back when you sell it on, because I just don’t see these appreciating.
...and they're not worth anything now.
And there's the rub. The old XR2s and 3s were bang average in their day too....didn't buy the fiesta to make money but having sold a 205 ,GTI just a year or two before values really took off, we're wary of repeating the same error now, not that I see ST150 values ever approaching those of the ultimate 80s hot hatch icon!
I love these. I asked the owner of mine to let me know when she was selling as I REALLY miss that car and regret selling it. Ran a check a few weeks back, sold with no contact, which is upsetting. Fix it up, I say.
Mine had:
Fast road cams
4-2-1 Pumaspeed manifold
Decat
Milltek exhaust
Billstein suspension all round
Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs
Braided brake hoses
Mountune cold air intake
Remap
Short shift kit
And no doubt more I've forgotten!
Think it was running close to 200 bhp.
Mine had:
Fast road cams
4-2-1 Pumaspeed manifold
Decat
Milltek exhaust
Billstein suspension all round
Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs
Braided brake hoses
Mountune cold air intake
Remap
Short shift kit
And no doubt more I've forgotten!
Think it was running close to 200 bhp.
BenS94 said:
I love these. I asked the owner of mine to let me know when she was selling as I REALLY miss that car and regret selling it. Ran a check a few weeks back, sold with no contact, which is upsetting. Fix it up, I say.
Mine had:
Fast road cams
4-2-1 Pumaspeed manifold
Decat
Milltek exhaust
Billstein suspension all round
Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs
Braided brake hoses
Mountune cold air intake
Remap
Short shift kit
And no doubt more I've forgotten!
Think it was running close to 200 bhp.
They are worth it if you like them. Sounds like you need to get into another! They are pretty reasonable now. Mine had:
Fast road cams
4-2-1 Pumaspeed manifold
Decat
Milltek exhaust
Billstein suspension all round
Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs
Braided brake hoses
Mountune cold air intake
Remap
Short shift kit
And no doubt more I've forgotten!
Think it was running close to 200 bhp.
I started modifying only recently as there’s a lot of well priced second hand items as people start returning them to stock or start breaking rusted / damaged examples.
For the OP. If the car isn’t being used, I’d sell it. Have something you enjoy. It won’t make you money especially if you tax and insure each year (£500+) as it won’t make that increase per year in value. The future classic car market might not exist as it does for the 80s-90s cars now
My suggestion, for what it’s worth, if you like the car and it makes you smile, then it’s worth spending money on.
Generally speaking we have cars like this because we want to. It’s not about the money, until they hit rock bottom, the prices always fall. At this end of the market, they are not an investment, but something that makes you happy.
If you are genuinely considering moving it on because it needs some work, then it probably is time to let it go.
Generally speaking we have cars like this because we want to. It’s not about the money, until they hit rock bottom, the prices always fall. At this end of the market, they are not an investment, but something that makes you happy.
If you are genuinely considering moving it on because it needs some work, then it probably is time to let it go.
I've been driving about in the ST this week and the contrast between it and my daily driver 3 series is immense. These Mk6 Fiestas really seem to be standing the test of time I feel. Plenty still knocking about. For an older Ford, they don't seem so bad on rust issues as the norm (ours is 19 years old and never had a rust advisory) and I just really enjoy the fairly analogue experience. Gearchange and steering, just spot on. Very little body roll, you can just chuck it around corners. Also after a typical laggy 4 pot diesel, the throttle response is so immediate. Its just a nice thing to punt around. But I've noticed if anything the prices have softened. They really refuse to budge from their £2K ish price point. Anyway, its definitely a keeper this one. We'll have owned it 10 years in December and to be honest its a rare car now being completely standard. I think if you enjoy something you just have to ignore the issue of whether it will or will not be a modern classic and just keep on enjoying it for what it is. If replaced, the replacement car would no doubt be heavier/have a turbo charged engine/modern electric steering etc, so it would be missed. Also, ultimately its very reliable and cheap to run (VED aside). Broke down just once, when the alternator failed and frankly that can happen on any car....
greenarrow said:
I think if you enjoy something you just have to ignore the issue of whether it will or will not be a modern classic and just keep on enjoying it for what it is.
Yes, and it is quite possible that some of the modern classics that have appreciated in price are actually underwater when you take into account non-routine maintenance and restoration costs.Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff