Another early 996 - manual coupe
Discussion
It's a 1999 3.4l Carrera (C2), manual, coupe, sunroof delete, M030 sports suspension, cargraphic silencers with "gundo" hack (more on that later), 997 Carrera iii wheels (and 997 tyre sizes). The only options are heated and electric (with driver memory) seats with a very comprehensive service history.
I have fancied a 911 for years, not helped by ppbb thread on his, and reinforced when I realised my next fun car would be my usual car, we have a Passat for family duties as well. My previous 205GTi and MR2 roadster as 3rd cars didn't get used much or the attention they needed.
This one came up relatively locally to me, advertised on here. I wasn't in a position to proceed until we had confirmation of costs for some work on the house, but I messaged the seller to ask about his experience with local specialists. I had ideally been looking for a car with black leather, and the 3 spoke wheel but kept coming back to this car as many of the common 996 issues done, and preventative maintenance and the consumables are all in good shape. A week or so later the house costs were confirmed, so I went back to the seller.
A look around the car and the test drive was all very positive, until going back down the lane to where the car was stored which revealed a knock from the front of the car, and restarting it once back it was slightly slow to turn over. There was a ramp to hand so I had a good look underneath which revealed 2 slight oil leaks, a slightly crushed aircon pipe (only replaced a year or so prior) and leak from the adjacent joint, and an unidentified leak from between 2 of the undertrays around the front firewall, which I later found to be where the aircon drain is.
Oil leak 1 - this is the left hand (bank 1) cam chain tensioner)
Oil leak 2 (circled) - what I assumed (correctly) was the AOS (air oil separator), effectively the crank case breather.
Crushed and leaking aircon pipe
A price was agreed subject to an inspection, which I had done at Project Nine who were the nearest Porsche specialist, I'm still waiting on the report from that but have a screenshot of their job card, it highlighted:
- aftermarket gearbox mount causing vibration through car
- rear track control arms have excessive play
- front inner track rods have slight play
- front tuning forks
- coolant rad splitting and leaking
- oil air separator bellows [misting oil]
- bank 1 cam tensioner seal [weaping]
- bank 2 blank off plate sweating coolant
- bank 1 core plug needs further investigation (below AOS bellows)
- oil cooler seals sweating coolant
- bank 2 - 1no manifold bolt broken [not leaking]
- front to rear AC pipe crushed and leaking at join
- O/S headlight aim too high
- passenger vanity mirror cover missing
I was eager to complete things quickly as Project Nine charge a storage fee once work is complete, which I thought was my first encountered with a Porsche tax, but doesn't seem to be standard among marque specialists. I negotiated £750 off the agreed price, which covers the parts for the gearbox mount, radiators, front tuning forks and inner track rods, rear track rod arms, AOS bellows, and seals for the oil cooler and cam tensioner.
This was a mistake, as in my rush I had forgotten the coolant and distilled water (it takes 22L), various clips and seals for the AOS, and wasn't aware the cam tensioners require the oil to be dropped. I also decided to replace the oil cooler in it's entirety rather than just the seals, and change the panel filter back to standard so all told I'm at £1150, plus the alignment, which puts me slightly over my original budget.
I'm 6 weeks and 1100miles in now, it's not using any oil or coolant, and has averages about 26mpg. I was worried the "gundo" hack on the exhaust, which effectively is a small diameter link which shortcuts the silencer on each side was going to be too loud for everyday use, but it isn't boomy on the motorway so that's fine. The kids love it and my wife will drive it reluctantly, she's coming round to it as she was initially pretty unhappy that it "isn't a proper 4 seater". .
Perhaps due to greater use the aircon leak has dried up and is still blowing cold, which is a relief as a fair bit of the front of the car has to come apart to replace that long front-rear pipe.
So far all I've done is re-sync the 2nd remote key, fit a TR7412UB-OR head unit with bluetooth, refit the standard air filter and pipework, and confirm which of the rear arms the PPI noted (rear lower, and only any play on the nearside).
Helmholtz resonator delete kit, now removed.
The suspension, rads and oil cooler etc. I'll start on Wednesday evening, it is booked into Parr in Crawley a week tomorrow for the geometry and a brake fluid change. That'll sort everything on the PPI list except the core plug and blanking plate which I'll have Precision Porsche look at when it's next serviced.
It's great to look forward to the more mundane journey again, and the steering and in particular the turn in are fabulous. I'm taking it over to Classics at Prescott next month, and am looking forward to the journey across the Cotswolds and taking it up the hill.
No particular plans for it other than to enjoy it, and when these tyres are worn out to replace the wheels with 996 5 spokes as I have discovered the 997 runs slightly different offsets (7mm further in up front, and 7mm further out at the rear), and PS4s. I will remove the centre lower console to increase space for my left leg at some stage, but the part in the C50 Graphite Grey colour I need isn't currently available.
Another photo from a run out for the sake of it one evening a couple of days after I got it. Number plate screw caps have been sorted!
I have fancied a 911 for years, not helped by ppbb thread on his, and reinforced when I realised my next fun car would be my usual car, we have a Passat for family duties as well. My previous 205GTi and MR2 roadster as 3rd cars didn't get used much or the attention they needed.
This one came up relatively locally to me, advertised on here. I wasn't in a position to proceed until we had confirmation of costs for some work on the house, but I messaged the seller to ask about his experience with local specialists. I had ideally been looking for a car with black leather, and the 3 spoke wheel but kept coming back to this car as many of the common 996 issues done, and preventative maintenance and the consumables are all in good shape. A week or so later the house costs were confirmed, so I went back to the seller.
A look around the car and the test drive was all very positive, until going back down the lane to where the car was stored which revealed a knock from the front of the car, and restarting it once back it was slightly slow to turn over. There was a ramp to hand so I had a good look underneath which revealed 2 slight oil leaks, a slightly crushed aircon pipe (only replaced a year or so prior) and leak from the adjacent joint, and an unidentified leak from between 2 of the undertrays around the front firewall, which I later found to be where the aircon drain is.
Oil leak 1 - this is the left hand (bank 1) cam chain tensioner)
Oil leak 2 (circled) - what I assumed (correctly) was the AOS (air oil separator), effectively the crank case breather.
Crushed and leaking aircon pipe
A price was agreed subject to an inspection, which I had done at Project Nine who were the nearest Porsche specialist, I'm still waiting on the report from that but have a screenshot of their job card, it highlighted:
- aftermarket gearbox mount causing vibration through car
- rear track control arms have excessive play
- front inner track rods have slight play
- front tuning forks
- coolant rad splitting and leaking
- oil air separator bellows [misting oil]
- bank 1 cam tensioner seal [weaping]
- bank 2 blank off plate sweating coolant
- bank 1 core plug needs further investigation (below AOS bellows)
- oil cooler seals sweating coolant
- bank 2 - 1no manifold bolt broken [not leaking]
- front to rear AC pipe crushed and leaking at join
- O/S headlight aim too high
- passenger vanity mirror cover missing
I was eager to complete things quickly as Project Nine charge a storage fee once work is complete, which I thought was my first encountered with a Porsche tax, but doesn't seem to be standard among marque specialists. I negotiated £750 off the agreed price, which covers the parts for the gearbox mount, radiators, front tuning forks and inner track rods, rear track rod arms, AOS bellows, and seals for the oil cooler and cam tensioner.
This was a mistake, as in my rush I had forgotten the coolant and distilled water (it takes 22L), various clips and seals for the AOS, and wasn't aware the cam tensioners require the oil to be dropped. I also decided to replace the oil cooler in it's entirety rather than just the seals, and change the panel filter back to standard so all told I'm at £1150, plus the alignment, which puts me slightly over my original budget.
I'm 6 weeks and 1100miles in now, it's not using any oil or coolant, and has averages about 26mpg. I was worried the "gundo" hack on the exhaust, which effectively is a small diameter link which shortcuts the silencer on each side was going to be too loud for everyday use, but it isn't boomy on the motorway so that's fine. The kids love it and my wife will drive it reluctantly, she's coming round to it as she was initially pretty unhappy that it "isn't a proper 4 seater". .
Perhaps due to greater use the aircon leak has dried up and is still blowing cold, which is a relief as a fair bit of the front of the car has to come apart to replace that long front-rear pipe.
So far all I've done is re-sync the 2nd remote key, fit a TR7412UB-OR head unit with bluetooth, refit the standard air filter and pipework, and confirm which of the rear arms the PPI noted (rear lower, and only any play on the nearside).
Helmholtz resonator delete kit, now removed.
The suspension, rads and oil cooler etc. I'll start on Wednesday evening, it is booked into Parr in Crawley a week tomorrow for the geometry and a brake fluid change. That'll sort everything on the PPI list except the core plug and blanking plate which I'll have Precision Porsche look at when it's next serviced.
It's great to look forward to the more mundane journey again, and the steering and in particular the turn in are fabulous. I'm taking it over to Classics at Prescott next month, and am looking forward to the journey across the Cotswolds and taking it up the hill.
No particular plans for it other than to enjoy it, and when these tyres are worn out to replace the wheels with 996 5 spokes as I have discovered the 997 runs slightly different offsets (7mm further in up front, and 7mm further out at the rear), and PS4s. I will remove the centre lower console to increase space for my left leg at some stage, but the part in the C50 Graphite Grey colour I need isn't currently available.
Another photo from a run out for the sake of it one evening a couple of days after I got it. Number plate screw caps have been sorted!
Edited by HughG on Monday 17th August 07:31
Edited by HughG on Monday 17th August 19:56
Edited by HughG on Tuesday 9th November 23:31
Very nice motor, I think the 996 is aging well now, seems to have a clean and timeless 911 shape. The 997 rims look the part.
These seem to be looking like good value, especially given that you might think that they are more likely to appreciate than depreciate, considering where they are in terms of age now. Interesting to compare to Cayman's as a prospect given that they seem to be similar money.
These seem to be looking like good value, especially given that you might think that they are more likely to appreciate than depreciate, considering where they are in terms of age now. Interesting to compare to Cayman's as a prospect given that they seem to be similar money.
Great to see another 996 thread and with the work you've had done it looks a great one.
You mentioned slow turnover when starting the car from warm - did you get to the bottom of this? My 986 does this and I believe it is either the earth to the starter motor or the starter itself but have not investigated it yet.
I look forward to following this one and more updates soon. Hope we have more good weather to enjoy before the end of summer...
You mentioned slow turnover when starting the car from warm - did you get to the bottom of this? My 986 does this and I believe it is either the earth to the starter motor or the starter itself but have not investigated it yet.
I look forward to following this one and more updates soon. Hope we have more good weather to enjoy before the end of summer...
Thanks for all the positive comments.
When cold and first started the volt meter in the dash reads a shade under 14v. Checking this with a multimeter shows it is under reading and is actually 14.2v. One warm the dash shows charging at 13v.
There is a good article on either Rennlist or 911uk about replacing the Y cable, which is the positive between the starter, jumping point and alternator. It corrodes and the Resistance when hot limits charging.
I’ve also seen the Earth strap mentioned as a possible source. I will change both, and the voltage regulator at some stage.
On the subject of changing things, I watched the PCGB 996 group presentation by Centre Gravity last week. It rambles on but there are some useful titbits in there, including that C2 top mounts typically last 80k, and c4 top mounts about half that. I’m at 90k and have no record of them being done.
Design 911 list a different top mount for m030 at about 3 times the price of the regular one, which makes them a very expensive precautionary change, but one that I really wanted to do before getting a proper Alignment done at a Porsche specialist. I spoke to Porsche Centre Tonbridge earlier and mentioned it, and after checking they have confirmed the front top mounts are the same for both standard and M030 suspension, so I will also put new top mounts on with all the other bits later in the week.
DanG355 said:
You mentioned slow turnover when starting the car from warm - did you get to the bottom of this?
Not completely. The car wasn’t being used often and was on a cheap trickle charger, the hot starting is better now which I think is due to the battery being better for regular use. It still doesn’t turn as eagerly when hot though. When cold and first started the volt meter in the dash reads a shade under 14v. Checking this with a multimeter shows it is under reading and is actually 14.2v. One warm the dash shows charging at 13v.
There is a good article on either Rennlist or 911uk about replacing the Y cable, which is the positive between the starter, jumping point and alternator. It corrodes and the Resistance when hot limits charging.
I’ve also seen the Earth strap mentioned as a possible source. I will change both, and the voltage regulator at some stage.
On the subject of changing things, I watched the PCGB 996 group presentation by Centre Gravity last week. It rambles on but there are some useful titbits in there, including that C2 top mounts typically last 80k, and c4 top mounts about half that. I’m at 90k and have no record of them being done.
Design 911 list a different top mount for m030 at about 3 times the price of the regular one, which makes them a very expensive precautionary change, but one that I really wanted to do before getting a proper Alignment done at a Porsche specialist. I spoke to Porsche Centre Tonbridge earlier and mentioned it, and after checking they have confirmed the front top mounts are the same for both standard and M030 suspension, so I will also put new top mounts on with all the other bits later in the week.
Work underneath began this evening, with almost immediate scope change.
The AOS bellows are leaking pretty badly, and it has run down the side of the block to where the cam tensioner is. So I am not sure that the cam tension seal is leaking. If there’s a possibility it’s ok I will leave well alone for the time being until it’s clear one way or the other.
That means I don’t need to drop the oil, so I continued with the AOS bellow, which can we done from below. The old doesn’t seem to be split at all, but wasn’t sat right so it may have been badly fitted.
I forgot to get a pic with it still on the car, but here’s it once removed.
and new one installed:
The other major error on my part is the gearbox mount, which is a pressed in fitting, and I suspect needs the box to be out of the car
On the basis that the oil cooler weep seems very slight, I’m going to leave that until the box is out as well.
So a frustrating start, but it’s up on ramps/stands ready for front rads and suspension tomorrow evening.
The AOS bellows are leaking pretty badly, and it has run down the side of the block to where the cam tensioner is. So I am not sure that the cam tension seal is leaking. If there’s a possibility it’s ok I will leave well alone for the time being until it’s clear one way or the other.
That means I don’t need to drop the oil, so I continued with the AOS bellow, which can we done from below. The old doesn’t seem to be split at all, but wasn’t sat right so it may have been badly fitted.
I forgot to get a pic with it still on the car, but here’s it once removed.
and new one installed:
The other major error on my part is the gearbox mount, which is a pressed in fitting, and I suspect needs the box to be out of the car
On the basis that the oil cooler weep seems very slight, I’m going to leave that until the box is out as well.
So a frustrating start, but it’s up on ramps/stands ready for front rads and suspension tomorrow evening.
Later start this evening so didn’t get much done, but bumper and rads are off and fans fitted to the new ones ready to go on.
I’m not convinced they needed replacing mind, these are the old ones. I need to replace 2 of the spring clips that hold the fans onto the rads are they are rotten, so if doing this yourself I would recommend at least 2 of those (there are 4 on each rad, but only 2 total rotten on mine), part number is 99916607702.
Previous rads:
Looking sorry for itself:
I’m not convinced they needed replacing mind, these are the old ones. I need to replace 2 of the spring clips that hold the fans onto the rads are they are rotten, so if doing this yourself I would recommend at least 2 of those (there are 4 on each rad, but only 2 total rotten on mine), part number is 99916607702.
Previous rads:
Looking sorry for itself:
The car has been fighting me since Thursday evening! I had been hoping to get everything sorted on Friday evening, but keep a few hours Saturday as contingency.
I tried reinstalling the radiators first so the frames and shrouds didn't impede getting the hose clips on. Fine in principal but then I had a battle getting the shrouds back on, which took so long it was too late to bleed the rads which involves warming the car up, then holding the revs at 2.5k rpm for 5minutes, revving it to 5k rpm every 30seconds.
So Friday evening and onto the front suspension, starting with inner track rods, but I couldn't get the track rod ends out of the front hub without risking damage, so added them to the list for Parr on Monday. The tuning forks and top mounts went well, but while doing the 2nd side I spotted the bump stop was disintegrating.
These weren't picked up by the PPI:
Thankfully Porsche Centre Tonbridge had some in stock, so fitted them on Saturday morning, then got the front back together, and had a battle getting the bumper to sit right, but I got there though it took all morning, to save my wife's sanity I thought we'd better do something as a family in for the afternoon, I only had toe arms to do on the rear so I could do them quickly after the kids were in bed, right?
For the nearside which I did first, yes spot on! The offside though and the eccentric bolt holding the toe arm to the subframe has seized iteself to the inner sleeve of the bush, so I soaked it penetrating oil and left it overnight. Still no luck with it Sunday morning, and no option to cut the bolt off as I wouldn't be able to get a replacement before the morning, when I need to take it for the geometry, so its also on the list for Parr to do tomorrow. I did finally get the coolant bled, which I quite enjoyed as it sounds great! It's taken about 0.5l less than I got out, so I'll need to keep an eye on it and top up as necessary.
I tried reinstalling the radiators first so the frames and shrouds didn't impede getting the hose clips on. Fine in principal but then I had a battle getting the shrouds back on, which took so long it was too late to bleed the rads which involves warming the car up, then holding the revs at 2.5k rpm for 5minutes, revving it to 5k rpm every 30seconds.
So Friday evening and onto the front suspension, starting with inner track rods, but I couldn't get the track rod ends out of the front hub without risking damage, so added them to the list for Parr on Monday. The tuning forks and top mounts went well, but while doing the 2nd side I spotted the bump stop was disintegrating.
These weren't picked up by the PPI:
Thankfully Porsche Centre Tonbridge had some in stock, so fitted them on Saturday morning, then got the front back together, and had a battle getting the bumper to sit right, but I got there though it took all morning, to save my wife's sanity I thought we'd better do something as a family in for the afternoon, I only had toe arms to do on the rear so I could do them quickly after the kids were in bed, right?
For the nearside which I did first, yes spot on! The offside though and the eccentric bolt holding the toe arm to the subframe has seized iteself to the inner sleeve of the bush, so I soaked it penetrating oil and left it overnight. Still no luck with it Sunday morning, and no option to cut the bolt off as I wouldn't be able to get a replacement before the morning, when I need to take it for the geometry, so its also on the list for Parr to do tomorrow. I did finally get the coolant bled, which I quite enjoyed as it sounds great! It's taken about 0.5l less than I got out, so I'll need to keep an eye on it and top up as necessary.
Edited by HughG on Tuesday 25th August 19:43
The car is back from Parr and driving very nicely. More evidence of the Porsche tax though:
- Fit front inner track rods (supplied)
- cut off seized rear O/S toe arm Eccentric bolt, and install supplied toe arm.
- geometry
- brake fluid change
- code airbag deactivation switch (just the coding).
£940
- Fit front inner track rods (supplied)
- cut off seized rear O/S toe arm Eccentric bolt, and install supplied toe arm.
- geometry
- brake fluid change
- code airbag deactivation switch (just the coding).
£940
trails said:
Blimey!
Fancy sharing the bill, be interesting to see how many hours labour you were charged...
Broken down it looks ok, £100/hr mounts up pretty quick. Inner track rods probably half an hour longer than I’d expect. Fancy sharing the bill, be interesting to see how many hours labour you were charged...
2.5hrs for the inner track rods.
1hr for the rear eccentric bolt and arm.
Geo £250
Coding £75.
Brake fluid £75 + £19 for fluid.
Replacement eccentric bolt £7ish.
Parts disposal £7.50
All +VAT.
Lesson learnt, in future I’ll order associated parts as well before doing things myself and can return them if not needed. £420 of that I could have avoided if I’d ordered £60 of bits.
Edited by HughG on Tuesday 25th August 20:51
Nothing much to report, it’s running very nicely and getting lots of use. 2k miles in now.
I picked up some trim and fixings to replace missing or broken items this morning so will get them on the car later on.
I’m hoping for some news Monday on availability of the centre console delete trim/carpet. It is out of stock in Graphite Grey and a new manufacturer is currently being tested.
I picked up some trim and fixings to replace missing or broken items this morning so will get them on the car later on.
I’m hoping for some news Monday on availability of the centre console delete trim/carpet. It is out of stock in Graphite Grey and a new manufacturer is currently being tested.
Edited by HughG on Saturday 5th September 15:31
Lovely car OP. 
I know everyone says any Petrolhead needs to have owned an Alfa, but I think maybe owning a 911 might be a better qualification!
I've not even driven one, but if I was blindfolded and someone drove one past me I'd know straight away what it was from that distinctive engine note.
Another potential future option - I bought my first BMW M car last December and am still loving that at present.
I know everyone says any Petrolhead needs to have owned an Alfa, but I think maybe owning a 911 might be a better qualification!
I've not even driven one, but if I was blindfolded and someone drove one past me I'd know straight away what it was from that distinctive engine note.
Another potential future option - I bought my first BMW M car last December and am still loving that at present.
Thanks MrTidy. I did briefly consider both E46 and E92 M3s before getting this as both are more family friendly than the 911, but less pure as a sports car. We have a Passat for child carrying and load lugging duties though, and as seen at the weekend the bike(s) will go on the top of the 911 no problem.
The response from PCGB is the centre console delete trim is still in testing and the next ‘update’ will need to be requested week 39 (21st Sept).
I have ordered an "Alex" Short Shift Kit, and I would ideally like to fit the console delete and short shift kit at the same time, so I may yet order the console delete at the inflated price from Design911.
The response from PCGB is the centre console delete trim is still in testing and the next ‘update’ will need to be requested week 39 (21st Sept).
I have ordered an "Alex" Short Shift Kit, and I would ideally like to fit the console delete and short shift kit at the same time, so I may yet order the console delete at the inflated price from Design911.
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