Mercedes W124 E300D estate - progress, or not...

Mercedes W124 E300D estate - progress, or not...

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Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Hello all. After months of being a shifty sort of person on the forum, particularly the barge thread, I've finally gone out and bought myself a totally unnecessary car. Again.

I have a bit of previous with this - I've had an 07-plate Skoda Roomster for ten years which has been great and done all the (sometimes unusual) things I've asked of it. But I've been into cars for a long time - not necessarily fast ones; in fact, generally quite the opposite. My car history has included a Flintstones '56 Morris Minor, my first drive-on-the-road car was a '68 Triumph Herald, a brace of Volvo 340/360s bought for £30 total, then a gold-tastic Toyota Town Ace (Royal Lounge Limited, no less) which was sublime yet hugely slow, and a Mitsubishi Delica in full LWB glory. Alongside that little lot, I've had a few oddball bikes - a BMW C1 & Piaggio MP3 amongst others.

Anyway, I digress. I've recently bought a '96 Mercedes E300 estate (W124 multivalve 4-speed flavour). And it's been....interesting.

I hadn't test driven any cars until recently but had been looking to get something in addition to my Skoda. I was thinking of a 986 Porsche Boxster or R129 Mercedes SL, as I haven't owned a convertible, but the W124 MBs have always struck me as an elegant design and have a good reputation.

The first car I drove was an unusual green Mercedes 190, which was on eBay nearby and actually parked at the station near where I work. Interesting car, but I wasn't sure about the reason for the swift resale, the colour (described to me as 'bogey green') or a few details, including a driver's bolster that was worn through several layers.

After that, I tried a Boxster. The car I tried was pretty good value (hard top, heated seats, low miles, 3.2S, decent price) but somehow didn't grab me as much as I was expecting. In addition, the convertible side of things appealed, but I'm not a speed merchant so a fast car was perhaps not one that would get it's intended use with me.

Then this car - which I'd already seen on eBay & Gumtree - came back up for sale, just a few miles away from me. To shorten a long story, I went to view and drive, and kinda fell in love with the thing. It's cosmetically scruffy - damaged lacquer, hole in front wing, and so on - but the owner seemed genuine and rattled off a list of various items replaced during his 12-year ownership. And it ended up cheap, so I bought it.

Edited by Northbrook on Thursday 4th April 22:36

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
quotequote all
So....

I went to collect the car last Tuesday. Handover went well, and I proudly drove off in my first ever Benz. Off for a wash, expecting that the condensation (car not used much for a year) would clear up with some heat.

...but life had other plans. Since buying the car, I've found that there are some things that need more timely attention than I anticipated.

First of all, I thought I'd been struck down by the dreaded ball joint issue: as I was getting home, I noticed some noise & grumbling on quarter-turn corners. That seems to be due to a power steering leak (or, at least, it's exacerbated by one) so that's the first thing to get attention.

Next up: welding. I took the car to a garage on Thursday for advice and they've quoted me £1k for rear subframe area welding. Second opinion will be obtained...

Next: garage quoted for £600 of brake pipe work - front to rear pipe, pipes to the wheels & labour.

Next: there's no heat in the cabin, but the car it running at the right part of the gauge. It doesn't look to be the duo valve (yet) as all the hoses in that area are cold, even after a 30 mile run. Given the top rad hose looks crumpled when cold, I imagine the feed to the heater isn't working to spec.

After that, there's a vibration to the steering wheel, which might be caused by the tyres (which,if I'm reading them right, are up to 16 years old!), and possibly something in the drivetrain.

Sooooo..... I wouldn't say that I've bought a pup. For a late W124 diesel estate, I imagine I'd get a decent chunk of the outlay back if it came to it. In the meantime, despite its faults I am enjoying the experience and can see the appeal of barge life.

Car goes off to a specialist in a few days - I hope, once I've booked it in - and we shall see.

Comments, suggestions, tea, biscuits, offers of help, reinforcements that I'm a numpty - all are welcomed!

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Gallons Per Mile

2,048 posts

114 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Looks alright from over here ! driving

A grand's worth of welding though? I think you'd have spotted that if you'd looked under the car while thinking about buying it. Please tell me you did look underneath!! If you're handy with the tools you can easily dodge any labour charges for brake pipes. They're easy to make and the tools to make the flanges are cheap too.

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Now, some things are - for now, at least - out of my hands & comfort zone: locating the PS leak is one of those. The need for (and urgency of) welding is another. But one of the reasons for getting the car was to be able to get more involved in fixing and improving a car, and I'm keen to get stuck in where I can.

So, I have tyres planned (Michelin Cross Climates are £65 fitted per corner - that'll do nicely), and I'd like to tackle the heater problem if/when the time comes to proceed with the car. I'm expecting that replacing the water hoses would be the best start, at least to the point where they enter the heater or duo valve. I do need to look at the rear side window sealing, as it seems that water is getting in through them. And a service is on the cards.

I have no hard feelings for the previous owner - he seemed genuine, but was selling because the car wasn't getting used and had only had basic servicing in the last couple of years. It did sound & feel like the car was fairly together - all the buttons inside worked, and so on - and the car seemed in reasonable shape for its 310k miles. So we shall see what the specialist has to say, and how far I want to spend time & money on restoration.

In the mean time, does anyone know what these buttons should say & what they do? The middle one used to have a snowflake on it, but I have no clue what each is supposed to accomplish (and, with no heat coming in, their function isn't made clear by any appreciable change). Thanks!

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
quotequote all

Gallons Per Mile

2,048 posts

114 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
quotequote all
The power steering leak should be fairly straight forward to work out. Getting stuck in is the best way to learn. Have a look around at how PS systems work, there's not actually a lot to them. You have a reservoir, a pump, pipework and possibly a cooler, and the steering rack. High pressure from pump to rack and low pressure return to reservoir. There will probably be a mixture of flexible rubbery lines and hard metal ones too. Just have a look around the engine bay and post pictures up on here biggrin

I'd hazard a guess that the snowflake button is your air conditioning.

helix402

7,913 posts

189 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Great project. The snowflake button turns you into a youth who expects everything on a plate and moans when challenged about their work (it’s bullying apparently). When pressed it also makes you angry and jealous about old people who lived through hard times in the olden days (70s) and now have massive pensions and houses.

I think it actually turns the air con in-if it works.

0a

23,958 posts

201 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Bravo! I love w124s, and it will be interesting to see what the specialist comes back with.

I would caution with a heavy heart that given the age of these cars (and the extensive testing completed so far on this one) you want to think carefully about the next steps. With my green one I realised I had ploughed a load of money into something that needed loads more, and it would only ever be worth about 5p (mine was a 4 door) so moved it on for little - I needed to do so much it wasn’t worth more.

Regarding the buttons - the top puts air conditioned dry air onto the screen to clear it quickly, the middle is the air con, and the lower is recirculate (if I remember correctly!).

By far the best dashboard layout of any car I have ever driven. I miss w124s and need to get back in them after “sleeping about” for a bit with other models.

Good luck.

RedSwede

261 posts

201 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
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Those buttons are A/C - but for an aftermarket system, I think.

Brake pipes are common - and the ones at the back do need a fuel tank drop, so are expensive. £600 still seems a good chunk more than it should be.

Rust at the rear is also too common. These cars are ver well undersealed, but water does get in and can do nasty things completely hidden. It is therefore excusable that it could have been missed during purchase inspection. However - how it came to light is important. If someone who really knows where to look started attacking it with a hammer and pointy object, then that's one thing. If someone just happened to see it whilst looking at something else, well, thats another issue entirely. In that case I would get said expert with said pointy object to give it a good look before going further with this, I'm afraid.

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Wednesday 23rd January 2019
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Thanks, all, and apologies for the slow response - PH has been on a noob-posting freeze again.

I've now joined the owners' club, got the Haynes manual, have a replacement fuel cap which will be going on shortly (because that's more important than silly power steering or not freezing to death), and the car's going in to be looked at on Tuesday.

In the meantime, I'm trying to work out which bits I need to order - I'm thinking that I want to replace the coolant hoses & PS pipes, plus the aerial grommet as the start of chasing down the condensation issue. Any tips on chasing down the right part numbers & decent parts suppliers would be much appreciated. r129sl of this establishment has already been very helpful, although I think some of the links on his titivation thread are now not working (but it could be me).

Anyway, barring a horrendous welding quote next week, I'm planning to give the old thing a bit of love. I'm enjoying it so far.

r129sl

9,518 posts

210 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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I'm having the rear subframe mounts on mine welded up. Cost is £500 cash. I had to buy new repair sections which were a further £300-odd from the main dealer. That might have been a counsel of perfection, however.

idiotgap

2,113 posts

140 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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I'm very interested to see how you get on. I bought my S124 in 2010 and over the years got it up to a good state, but sold it in 2015 as it no longer met our needs as a family. I still love the 124 though and wish you all the best. I might get a coupe one day if I have some spare space and cash at the same time.

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Tuesday 29th January 2019
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So. We have progress!

The car has been in to a specialist today. Work is needed but, aside from the heating (duh) and the power steering leak (~1.5l in 240 miles), none of the work is urgent.

I'm awaiting the price for the replacement steering line in the morning, likewise the diagnosed replacement duo valve. Although the valve may be fixable, and I have a secondhand one on its way to me.

Other noted snags are:

- Front indicator bulbs aren't orange any more;
- Cracked rear light;
- Rear washer not working (might be out of fluid - not sure they checked);
- Boot struts need replacing;
- Wheel balancing needed;
- Tyre;
- Slight play in steering idler bush (damper?);
- Corrosion (but not serious) on suspension pipes, underside and in the rear subframe area;
- Exhaust centre box & rear box corroded (I think he said holed over the phone);
- Minor water pump leak.

So, not all doom & gloom, but some things to do.

Obviously, I immediately went onto ECP and bought wiper blades, glass cleaner & wax.

Seems relevant.

Oh, and I have a set of CrossClimate+ going on on Saturday. And I'll order a replacement aerial grommet from MB as half is missing.

The PS line will get done, I'll have a play with the duo valve, keep an eye on the coolant level, and make a start on the jobs I can have a shot at.

Looking forward to having working heating, though - hopefully it'll help with the condensation problem the car has.

Not a bad day (car-wise, at least). Hooray!

r129sl

9,518 posts

210 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
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None of that sounds dreadful but, if you decide the car is a keeper, I would get the corrosion sorted sooner rather than later, by which I mean, this year and not four years time.

Replacement duo valves are very expensive new, I think about £475. Second hand they are generally less than £100 but you always need to clean up the internals. They consist of an electric coil with a plunger within. When electricity is applied to the coil, the plunger moves up or down. If you carefully remove the cylindrical caps from the valve body (five little torx screws), you can flip the coils out of the way and remove the plungers. You can then clean these up with fine steel wool. Reassemble and run the car, rapidly moving the temperature selectors between maximum heat and maximum cold. This generally frees them up. They will stick closed over the summer, however, (when the heater is not much called on) and you will have to repeat the job come next winter.

The rear washer is either no fluid, a bad pump, or a blocked nozzle. All easy and cheap fixes. The pump is on the side of the washer bottle, in the right hand side boot compartment. New pumps are less than £50. It's likely to be a blocked nozzle: clean out the jets with a pin tool.

Rear lamp assemblies are expensive brand new (£300+). They are made by ULO and are available on the aftermarket for less than £100. Or there are millions of used ones on eBay.

Steering idler arm bush is less than £30, easy fix for a man with a ramp. Makes a big difference. It's a good idea to do the steering damper as well. Front end suspension components are cheap and easy. Two tie rods (£40 each), a centre link (£40), shocks (£50 each) and shock top mounts (£40 each). Replacing all these will transform the car. But where do you stop? I'd definitely think of doing front shocks and shock top mounts. Maybe leave the tie rods and centre links.

When you do the suspension pipes, you should replace the rear suspension spheres. A £250 job but tedious when they go.

The car looks good.

Edit: tailgate struts is a fiddly job. The parts are cheap enough but you need great dexterity to fit them. Ideally get someone who has done them before to do it. However, this is a job which you will feel the benefit of every time you use the car. And if you don't, the boot lid will fall on your head every time you use the car.

You can get Eberspacher centre and rear exhaust sections for about £125 each if you shop around. Also, the front section with the cats in it is wrongly priced at Merc: £95! (At least it was two years ago when I did mine. My garagiste bought three.)

Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 30th January 08:13

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Thank you, sir. Very useful.

Bulbs will hopefully be fitted after work tomorrow, and I may try to screw up the duo valve completely while I'm there. I mean: adjust it. I've even bought a multimeter (although I have no idea what to do with it, and only a vague memory of what it should read if the electrical side of things is working - 12V difference between the centre and each side pin when set on full hot, n'est-ce pas?). I do have a secondhand valve incoming, although I don't know whether it's the correct fit (I'm told it is) or complete & working (I'm not told it isn't). Might be a useful source of spare parts, if nothing else. I think I'm right in saying that removing the moving valve jobbies should make the heating come full on...? That'd be nice. I can't hear the solenoids moving, so either the electrical side is kaput or the mechanical side isn't shifting. I think.

For corrosion & exhaust, I'll probably get a local mechanic I've used to have a look. He's sensible, happy to look things up online, reasonably priced, and would show me under the car on the lift (which I know some places wouldn't do). Hopefully the exhaust can be repaired to eke out a little more life before replacement, although Eberspacher replacement sections would run to about £250 for the two, so that's not bad. But the PS has to come first.

On that subject, I'm not sure whether I'm slightly disappointed in the specialist: when I rang yesterday mid-afternoin to check progress, I asked them to price up the PS repair and duo valve, and was expecting to talk about it when I went back to swap cars (borrowed a nice P reg C class). Now, I know I got there at 17.20 and they closed at 17.30, but I felt chivvied out of the door, and no pricing given. They were going to get the prices and call me. Called again this afternoon, and they've been very busy so would call me later. Haven't heard anything. Hmm. On top of reporting the non-working rear squirter, but then not having checked there was any fluid (okay, there's a boot liner, but still), it's not feeling entirely like they want my money. Fair enough they're busy, but I want the PS fixed! I'll check in with my local man tomorrow.

Rear lamp: repair tape bought, hopefully to be installed tomorrow night. That'll hold it until I get hold of a replacement.

Tyres are going on at an unearthly hour of Saturday morning. Alignment will be done, but can't be done on Sat. I'll ask that garage (someone else again!) to price up the idler bush and steering damper jobs as part of the alignment. Although I guess the damper won't affect that? May have a go myself, if I get myself some ramps. The idler bushes look slightly more involved.

Interestingly, from looking through the wodge of receipts I was given (bought?) with the car, various things were indeed mentioned...but happened some time ago. Suspension spheres have been done, but a while back. I'll get them looked at, but I'm reassured that the back end isn't about to fall off. The 16-year-old tyre has but days left on the car...

Boot struts aren't hugely pressing, in that the boot stays up without the hand of man. I'm not sure how heavy it should feel - I think it's heavier than it should be, but there's no easy way to find out. Willing to give it a go, but currently not a priority.

I'm glad that I haven't bought a lemon and, as the car has got this far, I'm glad to be able to keep it going a bit longer. Undoubtedly it'll be a money sinker - a leggy & slightly shabby old bus isn't what most people would pay top dollar for - but I can see, now, what the bargists are on about.

Two final thoughts: (1) If I accelerate medium-hard, it can feel like a rear wheel is going over cats eyes. I have no idea what that might be.

(2) I've driven the car about 250 miles in 2 weeks. It had previously driven about 20 miles in 7 months! Bulb warning has gone off - I think this car wants to be used...

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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More update: car is going in on Tuesday for the PS line and good-used duo valve. With the tyres going on this weekend, the initial maintenance spend is heading towards 50% of the buy price, but then the car was very cheap for a multivalve 300 diesel. As long as I have a car with decent tyres & heating and that doesn't drain the fluid reservoir in one parking manoeuvre, I'm content with that.

Another job for the list: work out how to drop the rear seat backs (or free them off, if I'm doing it right).

And ponder the cold-cold start: ticking over at 500rpm is fine but, when it's cold, the car needs throttle just to sit at 500. I bet you can't just adjust a 90s diesel the same way my 60s Herald was done. Hmm.

sprouting

487 posts

191 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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Seats should fold with the doors open. If they're not moving give them an almighty whack from behind.

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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I'm looking forward to that bit.

Northbrook

Original Poster:

1,501 posts

70 months

Saturday 2nd February 2019
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New tyres! And a snapped wheel bolt.

But the underside looks - to a quick & uninformed glance - to be in reasonable nick.