Fitting an Astra GTE engine to a Cobra
Discussion
So why would you want to fit a 2.0i Astra GTE engine in a Cobra replica? I guess most Cobra builders just wouldn't. I've often been asked why didn't I put a V8 in it? Well, I came up with all sorts of excuses - too much power, reliability, ease of maintenance, poor fuel consumption, difficulty of getting parts for US power units etc.
In reality, these don't really stack up and had nothing to do with my decision. You see I'm an incurable romantic with an emotional attachment to a MK2 Astra GTE (8v rather than v8) that I bought brand new in April 1988. This was in the days when as an IT programmer I was paid silly money and was still single and needed to impress women. It didn't work by the way! Rosy was the first girl I took out in it. She said: "So this is your new car is it?" - but before I could respond, she butted in with "So who's going to be at this party that I know?"
Needless to say Rosy didn't last. In fact, one might say her starter motor never even threw its drive pinion. The GTE however did, and what a fantastic car it was! I hated the digital display at first but then just couldn't get enough of it - especially on the German autobahns. It was so effortless up to 115 mph and then still had more to give. I loved the fact that as you floored it the numbers just couldn't keep up with the acceleration. Maybe the GTE does look a little dated now but it was beautiful then. No-one had a rear wing like it. It was just great.
It even began to have mixed success in helping attract the attention of further women but all that paled into insignificance when I finally met my gorgeous wife in 1991. We took it on our honeymoon to the Outer Hebrides. We circumnavigated Europe in it driving through Spain, Corsica, Italy and even took it on to that car park thing in Venice. Later we did Norway in it and endless trips to my wife's favourite part of the world - the English Lake District. The GTE was there with me during some of the special times of my life.
GTE at the Butt Of Lewis in 1992 - perfect weather for a Honeymoon! Wedding bow still hanging on to the rear wiper.
Then one day a Cobra drove down my road and in an instant my life was turned upside down. I'd never seen anything like it. In fact, since she took up running, only my wife has more lovelier curves. I just had to find what it was and get one. It was then that I realised I was going to have to build one.
Once decided, and with approval attained from my good lady, I did the manufacturers rounds. I settled for a Cobra kit supplied by Ram Automotive mainly because of its very impressive Adrian Reynard chassis and authentic body lines. I even came across another manufacturer's CEO building a RAM for his son!
However, right from the outset (like someone who just can't quite let go of an old flame) I made the decision that one day I would fit my GTE engine in it as a way of keeping it part of my life. So a bit crazy really. But when I bought my Cobra kit in 1994 the Astra was still my main car. So with a long term plan in mind, I built my Cobra with a scrap Vauxhall Carlton 1.8 carburettor engine and gearbox. Yes I did! The reason being, I needed it to have rear wheel drive with a block that looked like it could easily just swap with my GTE engine. So it was the Carlton gearbox that I really wanted for keeps. I hadn't done the research fully but my neighbour had a Carlton 2.0i and the engine looked remarkably similar to my GTE engine. I also figured that despite having to rotate it through 90 degrees to go from FWD to RWD it wouldn't make economical sense for GM to produce 2 different engines the same capacity at the same time to essentially do the same thing.
My Cobra was on the road 18 months after I started building it. For PHers who feel they'd love to build a car but think they lack the experience necessary - be encouraged! Yes, I went to university and took a degree in Mechanical Engineering but in reality I came out with only a moderate amount of technical understanding and virtually no practical experience. I went straight into IT so have very little professional experience. And in truth, if you can use an electric drill and a socket set you've got 90% of the skills you need to build a car. In fact, most of my practical experience did actually come from my college days but it wasn't from my course. It was in trying to keep a tired 1972 Austin 1300GT on the road. I spent a lot of time underneath that thing. It basically spent 2 years dying. As it was approaching it's death throws it tried to take me with it by breaking down for the final time on a railway crossing. Fortunately for me it died a couple of metres short. However, there's always a silver lining. There was one good thing about the car - it had a beautiful Smiths Rev Counter which I kept and now sits in the dash of my Cobra, still working perfectly after 45 years. As you can see, I do get rather emotionally attached to car parts and I'm rubbish at throwing stuff away. I guess fitting the GTE engine in my Cobra says more about me than it does about whether it's the done thing.
You can just see the original '72 Smiths rev counter on the Cobra dash. Still need to change that Vauxhall gear knob!
My Cobra ran happily for 20 years with the 1.8 engine and this was more than enough to pull it up Hardknott Pass with ease and give my son something to like his dad for. Having finally scrapped the Astra, I had my GTE engine rebuilt in 2015. The Carlton engine came out of the Cobra later that year. But was I right? Would it work? Can you just simply take a FWD Vauxhall Astra engine, turn it through 90 degrees and bolt it to a RWD Carlton box? And perhaps most important of all, what obstacles would I have to encounter and would any of them be unassailable? I didn't know if anyone had done it. I knew Westfields were being fitted with GTE Red Tops but they seem to be using Ford gearboxes with bespoke adapter plates. This was the only car I'd ever built so I didn't have the confidence to know for sure. Vauxhall didn't even know! I was going to do it anyway.
So this is the just the background to my story. I'll update this as regularly as I can with all what happened and everything significant I learned. Plenty of photos to follow. I'm hoping it will be of help to any PHers thinking of doing something similar.
In reality, these don't really stack up and had nothing to do with my decision. You see I'm an incurable romantic with an emotional attachment to a MK2 Astra GTE (8v rather than v8) that I bought brand new in April 1988. This was in the days when as an IT programmer I was paid silly money and was still single and needed to impress women. It didn't work by the way! Rosy was the first girl I took out in it. She said: "So this is your new car is it?" - but before I could respond, she butted in with "So who's going to be at this party that I know?"
Needless to say Rosy didn't last. In fact, one might say her starter motor never even threw its drive pinion. The GTE however did, and what a fantastic car it was! I hated the digital display at first but then just couldn't get enough of it - especially on the German autobahns. It was so effortless up to 115 mph and then still had more to give. I loved the fact that as you floored it the numbers just couldn't keep up with the acceleration. Maybe the GTE does look a little dated now but it was beautiful then. No-one had a rear wing like it. It was just great.
It even began to have mixed success in helping attract the attention of further women but all that paled into insignificance when I finally met my gorgeous wife in 1991. We took it on our honeymoon to the Outer Hebrides. We circumnavigated Europe in it driving through Spain, Corsica, Italy and even took it on to that car park thing in Venice. Later we did Norway in it and endless trips to my wife's favourite part of the world - the English Lake District. The GTE was there with me during some of the special times of my life.
GTE at the Butt Of Lewis in 1992 - perfect weather for a Honeymoon! Wedding bow still hanging on to the rear wiper.
Then one day a Cobra drove down my road and in an instant my life was turned upside down. I'd never seen anything like it. In fact, since she took up running, only my wife has more lovelier curves. I just had to find what it was and get one. It was then that I realised I was going to have to build one.
Once decided, and with approval attained from my good lady, I did the manufacturers rounds. I settled for a Cobra kit supplied by Ram Automotive mainly because of its very impressive Adrian Reynard chassis and authentic body lines. I even came across another manufacturer's CEO building a RAM for his son!
However, right from the outset (like someone who just can't quite let go of an old flame) I made the decision that one day I would fit my GTE engine in it as a way of keeping it part of my life. So a bit crazy really. But when I bought my Cobra kit in 1994 the Astra was still my main car. So with a long term plan in mind, I built my Cobra with a scrap Vauxhall Carlton 1.8 carburettor engine and gearbox. Yes I did! The reason being, I needed it to have rear wheel drive with a block that looked like it could easily just swap with my GTE engine. So it was the Carlton gearbox that I really wanted for keeps. I hadn't done the research fully but my neighbour had a Carlton 2.0i and the engine looked remarkably similar to my GTE engine. I also figured that despite having to rotate it through 90 degrees to go from FWD to RWD it wouldn't make economical sense for GM to produce 2 different engines the same capacity at the same time to essentially do the same thing.
My Cobra was on the road 18 months after I started building it. For PHers who feel they'd love to build a car but think they lack the experience necessary - be encouraged! Yes, I went to university and took a degree in Mechanical Engineering but in reality I came out with only a moderate amount of technical understanding and virtually no practical experience. I went straight into IT so have very little professional experience. And in truth, if you can use an electric drill and a socket set you've got 90% of the skills you need to build a car. In fact, most of my practical experience did actually come from my college days but it wasn't from my course. It was in trying to keep a tired 1972 Austin 1300GT on the road. I spent a lot of time underneath that thing. It basically spent 2 years dying. As it was approaching it's death throws it tried to take me with it by breaking down for the final time on a railway crossing. Fortunately for me it died a couple of metres short. However, there's always a silver lining. There was one good thing about the car - it had a beautiful Smiths Rev Counter which I kept and now sits in the dash of my Cobra, still working perfectly after 45 years. As you can see, I do get rather emotionally attached to car parts and I'm rubbish at throwing stuff away. I guess fitting the GTE engine in my Cobra says more about me than it does about whether it's the done thing.
You can just see the original '72 Smiths rev counter on the Cobra dash. Still need to change that Vauxhall gear knob!
My Cobra ran happily for 20 years with the 1.8 engine and this was more than enough to pull it up Hardknott Pass with ease and give my son something to like his dad for. Having finally scrapped the Astra, I had my GTE engine rebuilt in 2015. The Carlton engine came out of the Cobra later that year. But was I right? Would it work? Can you just simply take a FWD Vauxhall Astra engine, turn it through 90 degrees and bolt it to a RWD Carlton box? And perhaps most important of all, what obstacles would I have to encounter and would any of them be unassailable? I didn't know if anyone had done it. I knew Westfields were being fitted with GTE Red Tops but they seem to be using Ford gearboxes with bespoke adapter plates. This was the only car I'd ever built so I didn't have the confidence to know for sure. Vauxhall didn't even know! I was going to do it anyway.
So this is the just the background to my story. I'll update this as regularly as I can with all what happened and everything significant I learned. Plenty of photos to follow. I'm hoping it will be of help to any PHers thinking of doing something similar.
Edited by Cobra Curves on Saturday 20th May 19:06
Edited by Cobra Curves on Monday 17th July 09:14
Edited by Cobra Curves on Saturday 4th April 09:14
jdwoodbury said:
What a fantastic read, we all have our obsessions and don't let anyone tell you it's a bad idea. I am still trying to convince the wife we need a Metro GTI 16v in our life...before they all rust to extinction 
what you need is a stripped out Rover 100/Metro with a lotus 1800VVC engine in it 
http://www.talonsportscars.com/
Ambleton said:
what you need is a stripped out Rover 100/Metro with a lotus 1800VVC engine in it
http://www.talonsportscars.com/
What do you mean Lotus? http://www.talonsportscars.com/
Having watched various 'tube clips of VVC Metro conversions ooh yes (helps I'm rather fond of the standard Metro).Nice looking replica, love the colour and having taken a GTE around a rally track it was stupendous fun. Personally I'd be after a V8 but you're doing something that I can't and have something lying around so why not? So a thumbs up from me.
227bhp said:
You need to see a Doctor, I disagree with what you have done, but admire it too.
I did enjoy reading that and it's well written, i'm looking forward to reading more and trying not to throw my slippers at the screen in disgust!
Quite agree - I see a doctor everyday - my above mentioned wife is a doctor!I did enjoy reading that and it's well written, i'm looking forward to reading more and trying not to throw my slippers at the screen in disgust!
TopTrump said:
What a refreshing change from many of the idiots on this site saying 'put an ls1 in it' or 'supercharge it'
Speed is only part of thee effect. Number one for me is nostalgia and how it makes you feel. To keep the GTE DNA is genius. Enjoy. Will watch this unfold.
I agree with this, the car will have your heart and soul in it making it much more than just another car Speed is only part of thee effect. Number one for me is nostalgia and how it makes you feel. To keep the GTE DNA is genius. Enjoy. Will watch this unfold.
looking forward to updates!An excellent bit of recycling, which should be encouraged by all right thinking enthusiasts.
If I saw your car parked up and realised it has a 4-cyl Vauxhall engine I'd wonder why, but once you hear the story it makes perfect sense.
Finally. I suspect the GTE engine produces as much (if not more) power as the wheezy old 3.5 Rover engines in a lot of Cobra replicas.
If I saw your car parked up and realised it has a 4-cyl Vauxhall engine I'd wonder why, but once you hear the story it makes perfect sense.
Finally. I suspect the GTE engine produces as much (if not more) power as the wheezy old 3.5 Rover engines in a lot of Cobra replicas.
Truckosaurus said:
Finally. I suspect the GTE engine produces as much (if not more) power as the wheezy old 3.5 Rover engines in a lot of Cobra replicas.
It certainly does! As for "similar power to an AC Ace", whoever thinks that doesn't know how far engines have come in 50 years. The GTE was, I think, 165bhp in the 16v version. A bit less in the 8v. Caterham had the 16v tweaked at SRE for iirc 175bhp when fitted with twin Webers.A P6 Rover was something like 150 bhp, the ones that went into Landies etc were less in exchange for torque. I think they were a bit more by the time the V8 went into the SD1. What we fail to realise these days is that 150bhp was a staggering amount of power in the 70's when most Rover V8s were built. In the 50's when the Ace was about it was almost unheard of unless you had a horse on the bonnet badge, or possibly a big cat. ISTR that the criticism of the Ace at the time was that it was a bit underpowered, with something like a 2 litre 4 pot engine. I bet it didn't even make 100 bhp.
What the Astra engine lacks of course is however much torque from 1500rpm and, of course, the rumble.
Correction - the first Ace made exactly 100 bhp from a 2L straight 6, so it was well shy of an Astra GTE. After a few years the power was raised to 120 bhp with a Bristol engine, then a Ford 2.6 that made up to 170.
Some Rover V8s made 180+ bhp, but that's not staggering. The Vauxhall family engine was very good indeed. It's fashionable to knock Vauxhall here, but that generation of cars and especially their mechanicals was bloody good.
Some Rover V8s made 180+ bhp, but that's not staggering. The Vauxhall family engine was very good indeed. It's fashionable to knock Vauxhall here, but that generation of cars and especially their mechanicals was bloody good.
It's a excellent idea; If I had though to keep useful bits of cars I have loved in the past, the idea of building them in to a kit car/replica would sound like a great one to me. Especially the Smiths instrument (s).
Nothing wrong with the GTE engine either, except perhaps lack of soundtrack!
Nothing wrong with the GTE engine either, except perhaps lack of soundtrack!
I'm new to PH and am loving these responses!
With regard to power, I believe my GTE 8v is rated 129bhp at 5600rpm. Having been professionally rebuilt, it should be around that mark. TopTump is right to say it's not all about BHP though but its the overall effect that counts.
And in any case guys, don't forget the physics - Power-to-weight Ratio is king here! My neighbour drives a 5.3ltr Turbo Diesel fire engine carrying 1 Ton of water for a living, but you could burn him off in a Yaris. I expect my Reynard chassis to be high in strength and low in weight. I have seen some rather agricultural overly engineered kit car chassis - seems like the manufacturers erred on the heavy side for safety because they weren't so sure about their engineering calculations.
At the end of the day, my GTE went like a rocket and is considerably heavier than my Cobra so I'm having plenty of fun! I don't see anything funny about knowing if you misjudge your throttle you could end it all for yourself and possibly someone else. I'm having way too much fun as it is. Of course I want to go to heaven and am doing all I can to make sure I get there… but I don't want to get there any quicker than I have too!
I totally get the soundtrack thing though. I know mine will never burble like a V8 unless I saw the exhaust off and remove a couple of spark plugs but it still sounds surprisingly cool. I have a small video of the Smiths Rev counter as I ran the GTE up to 6700rpm during an engine test. Shakotan, it farts beautifully passed 4000! Does anyone know how I can upload it here? I understand YouTube links aren't allowed.
With regard to power, I believe my GTE 8v is rated 129bhp at 5600rpm. Having been professionally rebuilt, it should be around that mark. TopTump is right to say it's not all about BHP though but its the overall effect that counts.
And in any case guys, don't forget the physics - Power-to-weight Ratio is king here! My neighbour drives a 5.3ltr Turbo Diesel fire engine carrying 1 Ton of water for a living, but you could burn him off in a Yaris. I expect my Reynard chassis to be high in strength and low in weight. I have seen some rather agricultural overly engineered kit car chassis - seems like the manufacturers erred on the heavy side for safety because they weren't so sure about their engineering calculations.
At the end of the day, my GTE went like a rocket and is considerably heavier than my Cobra so I'm having plenty of fun! I don't see anything funny about knowing if you misjudge your throttle you could end it all for yourself and possibly someone else. I'm having way too much fun as it is. Of course I want to go to heaven and am doing all I can to make sure I get there… but I don't want to get there any quicker than I have too!
I totally get the soundtrack thing though. I know mine will never burble like a V8 unless I saw the exhaust off and remove a couple of spark plugs but it still sounds surprisingly cool. I have a small video of the Smiths Rev counter as I ran the GTE up to 6700rpm during an engine test. Shakotan, it farts beautifully passed 4000! Does anyone know how I can upload it here? I understand YouTube links aren't allowed.
Love it, ok a V8 would be bonkers fast but 130 bhp or so in a fairly light car will move pretty well and a great link to the past, they were good engines those, really revvy and always made decent power compared to the Ford Equivalent, i.e. a 1.6 Cavalier was always perkier than the Sierra 1.6, used to drive my bosses 1.8 GLi and it felt like a beast at the time 
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