Mercedes W124 E300D estate - progress, or not...
Discussion
Great - thanks.
One other thing for me to note here, because it'll soon fall out of my head with the way work is at present: when under the car at the weekend, I noted the Behr label on the underside of the radiator is dated 2011.
...and a question: what are the symptoms of blown rear suspension spheres? The back has been lower than the front for some time, and reading r129sl's thread has me wondering. Thanks.
One other thing for me to note here, because it'll soon fall out of my head with the way work is at present: when under the car at the weekend, I noted the Behr label on the underside of the radiator is dated 2011.
...and a question: what are the symptoms of blown rear suspension spheres? The back has been lower than the front for some time, and reading r129sl's thread has me wondering. Thanks.
If the rear suspension spheres are blown, you'd know about it. Speed bumps are utterly intolerable and it pogos around like mad.
The valve is not supposed to set the ordinary, unloaded ride height. The springs and struts do that. If the ride height unladen is too low, it is more likely knackered rear springs.
Gearbox vacuum line runs to the front of the engine up top, not far off the vacuum pump. I can't find an image but will try to take one if you get stuck.
Parking brake pedal rubber is A 124 427 03 82.
The valve is not supposed to set the ordinary, unloaded ride height. The springs and struts do that. If the ride height unladen is too low, it is more likely knackered rear springs.
Gearbox vacuum line runs to the front of the engine up top, not far off the vacuum pump. I can't find an image but will try to take one if you get stuck.
Parking brake pedal rubber is A 124 427 03 82.
Edited by r129sl on Tuesday 10th November 22:01
Sounds like the springs are worth looking at, then. Thanks for the pointer.
W201_190E has provided some unexpected and, to me, staggering information about this car: from dealership work records, the car drove >83,000 miles.
In its first year!
My mind is boggled. Thanks again for the information.
W201_190E has provided some unexpected and, to me, staggering information about this car: from dealership work records, the car drove >83,000 miles.
In its first year!
My mind is boggled. Thanks again for the information.
Genuine MB brake pedal rubber bought - £6.50 on eBay. Why some people try to get nearly £15 for a well-used one is beyond me.
The car was up on my ramps for the last week, just in case I wanted to have another look underneath (and because it's a little stressful to drive it onto them). I ended up not winding the ramps skywards this weekend, but the extra front end height made looking at a couple of things easier.
Having looked at the gearbox end of the vacuum modulator setup, I thought it was worth looking topside. Realistically, that meant whipping off the intake manifold crossover pipe to look underneath. A bit fiddly, but I've done it often enough for it not to be much of an issue. Even after I disconnected (what I think is) the EGR valve from the crossover pipe, and dropped the gasket onto the undertray.
No smoking gun there. As far as I can tell, the other end of the vacuum line which goes into the modulator ends up at a fitting under the IM, near or into a green jobbie whose purpose I've now forgotten but which I'll look to replace as a just-in-case.
No obvious disconnected pipe found, I reassembled and checked out the vacuum pump itself. I've recently heard some worrying stories of what can happen when these go pop.
I think mine is the okay(we) version, but may look to get hold of one so it can be swapped in for piece of mind. I believe it's a Pierburg 7.20607.74.0.
I also made the rear door cards less completely detached from the doors. They're not on properly - not by a long shot - but they're closer to where they need to be.
Then I took the car out for a drive, to see if my fiddling a had made the box shift more smoothly.
Um.... No.
It was worse!
After a few miles, I drove under the bonnet again, as I figured the very harsh shifting was a sign of proper vacuum disconnection. Sure enough, a line I've managed to pull out before was disconnected near the air intake.
(The lower one, reconnected in this pic)
And the result? Not convinced it's better.
The car was up on my ramps for the last week, just in case I wanted to have another look underneath (and because it's a little stressful to drive it onto them). I ended up not winding the ramps skywards this weekend, but the extra front end height made looking at a couple of things easier.
Having looked at the gearbox end of the vacuum modulator setup, I thought it was worth looking topside. Realistically, that meant whipping off the intake manifold crossover pipe to look underneath. A bit fiddly, but I've done it often enough for it not to be much of an issue. Even after I disconnected (what I think is) the EGR valve from the crossover pipe, and dropped the gasket onto the undertray.
No smoking gun there. As far as I can tell, the other end of the vacuum line which goes into the modulator ends up at a fitting under the IM, near or into a green jobbie whose purpose I've now forgotten but which I'll look to replace as a just-in-case.
No obvious disconnected pipe found, I reassembled and checked out the vacuum pump itself. I've recently heard some worrying stories of what can happen when these go pop.
I think mine is the okay(we) version, but may look to get hold of one so it can be swapped in for piece of mind. I believe it's a Pierburg 7.20607.74.0.
I also made the rear door cards less completely detached from the doors. They're not on properly - not by a long shot - but they're closer to where they need to be.
Then I took the car out for a drive, to see if my fiddling a had made the box shift more smoothly.
Um.... No.
It was worse!
After a few miles, I drove under the bonnet again, as I figured the very harsh shifting was a sign of proper vacuum disconnection. Sure enough, a line I've managed to pull out before was disconnected near the air intake.
(The lower one, reconnected in this pic)
And the result? Not convinced it's better.
I haven't yet gone chasing water ingress into the boot area, buy the side windows seem to be the regular culprit.
Parts availability for this 25+ year old car are surprisingly good. Dependant, of course, on how original you want to go and how much you want to pay. Some items now seem to be NLA from Mercedes itself - the vented front wing apparently being an example - but for the most part there's a lot of spare parts support for these cars.
If you're looking to take one on, it's worth reading up about the shape-specific and engine-specific foibles that combination has, and either keeping an eye out for that work already having been done or expect sometime to pay to get the work done.
As an example, the OM606-powered estate like this car will likely at some point have:
- Rusty front outer & inner wings;
- Water ingress;
- Engine wiring harness problems;
- Glow plug seized into the head;
- Rear subframe (front) mounting points rust.
My car has had all of these issues (and more!) but I forgive it when I'm out for a drive and racking up the miles.
Parts availability for this 25+ year old car are surprisingly good. Dependant, of course, on how original you want to go and how much you want to pay. Some items now seem to be NLA from Mercedes itself - the vented front wing apparently being an example - but for the most part there's a lot of spare parts support for these cars.
If you're looking to take one on, it's worth reading up about the shape-specific and engine-specific foibles that combination has, and either keeping an eye out for that work already having been done or expect sometime to pay to get the work done.
As an example, the OM606-powered estate like this car will likely at some point have:
- Rusty front outer & inner wings;
- Water ingress;
- Engine wiring harness problems;
- Glow plug seized into the head;
- Rear subframe (front) mounting points rust.
My car has had all of these issues (and more!) but I forgive it when I'm out for a drive and racking up the miles.
Light17 said:
I’m tempted to jump back into owning a Mercedes of this era, how is parts availability?
At risk of teaching granny about egg-sucking, I'd strongly recommend buying the absolute best-maintained one you can find. They are very rewarding cars and very well-built, but they're old and they will need work. I have had a handful of Mercs from this era and running one is all about the purchase. Get that right and you're laughing; get it wrong and you'll curse the day you set eyes on the f
king thing. I'll be seeing my mechanic (yet) again next week, and I'll try to remember to ask.
There's been some good news with the car recently and, amongst the doom and gloom of this year, it's much appreciated.
Firstly, I have a replacement gearbox waiting to go into the car. I found, via FB, a guy with various W124 bits including the right flavour of gearbox (722.435) and, although it's been sitting in his home garage for a while and has already been in a couple of cars, I'm hoping it'll be a good one. As you would with an entire secondhand car, you're buying the seller as much as the car and I'd say he was ideal: an older gentleman, keen on old Mercedes diesels specifically, who'd taken the fully working engine and box (plus ancillaries) out of an estate with dissolved rear subframe, fitted it into a coupe and ran around in that happily until the interior water ingress and offers on parts meant he broke it for a profit. He still has an engine, a broken gearbox from another similar car he broke, various diffs, exhausts, a W221 parked outside along with a W210.... You get the idea. I agreed £100 for the box, with torque converter, and I'm gathering together some other bits to change while there (vacuum lines, modulator etc). I'm pondering the idea of the Superior K722A-D spring kit, as it'd be easier to do when the box isn't in the air and has been full of fluid, but I'm not sure I should change anything before knowing how if shifts as-is.
My current box seems to be losing health by the day - noise levels seem to be going up, along (I think) with vibration levels at 70, and reverse seems to be becoming balky. I'm waiting for fluid to arrive (I've ordered some Dexron IID - figured that any mild price premium is worth paying if this box resolved my problem), and I ordered the other bits from my local MB dealer in the end. I'm planning to clean up the outside of the box, not doing anything else (unless someone says there's anything worth doing before it goes in) and trying to get it fitted this side of NY.
And we have a shiny new MOT! Went in yesterday, Man noticed a weep from a hydraulic line so nipped it up....and it failed for a weep from that joint, which was loose by the time it got to the MOT centre a mile away. Odd. Nipped up again, cleaned again, and passed with an advisory for "engine cover fitted". I'll take that!
I need to properly refit the rear door cards - they're not fitting right at the window ledge - and there's always more to do with this car, but resolving the gearbox and getting a new MOT have really helped. I'm now chasing down the outstanding bits I'd need to add cruise controls - got the actuator from Box Man for £40 (along with a set of fifteen-holes for the same), so 'just' the wiring harness, stalk, ECU to go, I think.
There's been some good news with the car recently and, amongst the doom and gloom of this year, it's much appreciated.
Firstly, I have a replacement gearbox waiting to go into the car. I found, via FB, a guy with various W124 bits including the right flavour of gearbox (722.435) and, although it's been sitting in his home garage for a while and has already been in a couple of cars, I'm hoping it'll be a good one. As you would with an entire secondhand car, you're buying the seller as much as the car and I'd say he was ideal: an older gentleman, keen on old Mercedes diesels specifically, who'd taken the fully working engine and box (plus ancillaries) out of an estate with dissolved rear subframe, fitted it into a coupe and ran around in that happily until the interior water ingress and offers on parts meant he broke it for a profit. He still has an engine, a broken gearbox from another similar car he broke, various diffs, exhausts, a W221 parked outside along with a W210.... You get the idea. I agreed £100 for the box, with torque converter, and I'm gathering together some other bits to change while there (vacuum lines, modulator etc). I'm pondering the idea of the Superior K722A-D spring kit, as it'd be easier to do when the box isn't in the air and has been full of fluid, but I'm not sure I should change anything before knowing how if shifts as-is.
My current box seems to be losing health by the day - noise levels seem to be going up, along (I think) with vibration levels at 70, and reverse seems to be becoming balky. I'm waiting for fluid to arrive (I've ordered some Dexron IID - figured that any mild price premium is worth paying if this box resolved my problem), and I ordered the other bits from my local MB dealer in the end. I'm planning to clean up the outside of the box, not doing anything else (unless someone says there's anything worth doing before it goes in) and trying to get it fitted this side of NY.
And we have a shiny new MOT! Went in yesterday, Man noticed a weep from a hydraulic line so nipped it up....and it failed for a weep from that joint, which was loose by the time it got to the MOT centre a mile away. Odd. Nipped up again, cleaned again, and passed with an advisory for "engine cover fitted". I'll take that!
I need to properly refit the rear door cards - they're not fitting right at the window ledge - and there's always more to do with this car, but resolving the gearbox and getting a new MOT have really helped. I'm now chasing down the outstanding bits I'd need to add cruise controls - got the actuator from Box Man for £40 (along with a set of fifteen-holes for the same), so 'just' the wiring harness, stalk, ECU to go, I think.
A bit of light fettling today, a question, and perhaps a realisation.
Question first: there's a linkage attached to the throttle linkage spaghetti that drops down through the inlet manifold. Does it go to the fuel pump, or does it go Somewhere Else? I believe the cruise control actuator lives down that direction too. I'm sure I'm not that well-endowed already....am I? The car has had some changes in the past so, although there's no stalk or cutout in the steering column shroud, I'm curious as to whether the other end of this linkage goes somewhere cruise-related. I'm now thinking not...?
The realisation: I think the rear springs are the wrong ones. Here's why: the back end of the car has looked low for a while, in as much as the tyre-to-arch gap is less on the back, but the car has recently passed an MOT so I doubt the springs have snapped or anything similar. The ride isn't bouncy, so it seems like the spheres haven't blown (thanks for the pointer on that). I've now picked up some new springs and the three-dot pads, thinking that that should improve things. But....when I was talking to my Man on Thursday and mentioned new springs, he said he thought he'd put new ones on last year. And well he might, but the car has had a full seven-seat leather interior put in at some stage, and that will have added weight over the rear wheels. When I was working out the part numbers, I took that into account along with the other options, and plumped for the thickest spring pads in case I ever add a tow bar. Those two options alone add 14 points to the tally, so the ones he replaced last year (if he did) may simply be too short for the running order the car is in. In any case, at some point we'll sling these new parts on the car and see where we're at.
Shiny springs:
I snapped up some scuttle plastics a few weeks back for £15 delivered. They were (and, despite taking a bath, kinda still are) properly mucky, but they give me an idea as to how they go together and may be useful as spares if not a wholesale replacement.
Here they are pieced together. Not sure where the other two bits (top of bonnet) are supposed to live, and my car is currently bunged up with silicone in an effort to reduce the ingress, so I'm not going to take it apart until I have some confidence that I know what goes where.
I have nicked the rubber seal to replace the one on my car that had been cut short to match up with the missing driver's side scuttle piece. The new-to-me seal is workable for now, but I'll probably look to replace at some point as it's better but not great. I'm not aiming for perfection; right now, function is more important.
Having looked at the new central piece, the one on the car has definitely been mucked about with - the two larger grille sections are loose on my car but seemingly joined (plastic welded?) To the main panel on the spare piece.
The car still isn't running right from cold. My next culprit is the injectors. I've now got some washers to replace under the injectors, so the next step on that job will be to get the injectors out for refurb, then refit and see where we are. I suspect one isn't functioning right: it's stumbling until warm, with some smoke out the back. The car does have a slight rock to it sometimes when warm, which maybe points to engine mounts (worth doing when the gearbox is off?), but the cold behaviour points to injectors in my head.
As it were.
Oh, and I've grabbed a NOS cruise control stalk from Starpartz for £50 delivered. Looks like the harnesses are available at not-stupid cost, just just the ECU and ancillaries (brake light switch, some kind of speedo signal?) to go with that project.
Oh, and I need to change the central air vent for one I've got waiting, as soon as the wrinkle paint arrives. Which means pulling the cluster (got the hooks, but may decide to change the bulbs while out) and the passenger airbag. Not a job I'm hugely looking forward to, but needs to be done!
Question first: there's a linkage attached to the throttle linkage spaghetti that drops down through the inlet manifold. Does it go to the fuel pump, or does it go Somewhere Else? I believe the cruise control actuator lives down that direction too. I'm sure I'm not that well-endowed already....am I? The car has had some changes in the past so, although there's no stalk or cutout in the steering column shroud, I'm curious as to whether the other end of this linkage goes somewhere cruise-related. I'm now thinking not...?
The realisation: I think the rear springs are the wrong ones. Here's why: the back end of the car has looked low for a while, in as much as the tyre-to-arch gap is less on the back, but the car has recently passed an MOT so I doubt the springs have snapped or anything similar. The ride isn't bouncy, so it seems like the spheres haven't blown (thanks for the pointer on that). I've now picked up some new springs and the three-dot pads, thinking that that should improve things. But....when I was talking to my Man on Thursday and mentioned new springs, he said he thought he'd put new ones on last year. And well he might, but the car has had a full seven-seat leather interior put in at some stage, and that will have added weight over the rear wheels. When I was working out the part numbers, I took that into account along with the other options, and plumped for the thickest spring pads in case I ever add a tow bar. Those two options alone add 14 points to the tally, so the ones he replaced last year (if he did) may simply be too short for the running order the car is in. In any case, at some point we'll sling these new parts on the car and see where we're at.
Shiny springs:
I snapped up some scuttle plastics a few weeks back for £15 delivered. They were (and, despite taking a bath, kinda still are) properly mucky, but they give me an idea as to how they go together and may be useful as spares if not a wholesale replacement.
Here they are pieced together. Not sure where the other two bits (top of bonnet) are supposed to live, and my car is currently bunged up with silicone in an effort to reduce the ingress, so I'm not going to take it apart until I have some confidence that I know what goes where.
I have nicked the rubber seal to replace the one on my car that had been cut short to match up with the missing driver's side scuttle piece. The new-to-me seal is workable for now, but I'll probably look to replace at some point as it's better but not great. I'm not aiming for perfection; right now, function is more important.
Having looked at the new central piece, the one on the car has definitely been mucked about with - the two larger grille sections are loose on my car but seemingly joined (plastic welded?) To the main panel on the spare piece.
The car still isn't running right from cold. My next culprit is the injectors. I've now got some washers to replace under the injectors, so the next step on that job will be to get the injectors out for refurb, then refit and see where we are. I suspect one isn't functioning right: it's stumbling until warm, with some smoke out the back. The car does have a slight rock to it sometimes when warm, which maybe points to engine mounts (worth doing when the gearbox is off?), but the cold behaviour points to injectors in my head.
As it were.
Oh, and I've grabbed a NOS cruise control stalk from Starpartz for £50 delivered. Looks like the harnesses are available at not-stupid cost, just just the ECU and ancillaries (brake light switch, some kind of speedo signal?) to go with that project.
Oh, and I need to change the central air vent for one I've got waiting, as soon as the wrinkle paint arrives. Which means pulling the cluster (got the hooks, but may decide to change the bulbs while out) and the passenger airbag. Not a job I'm hugely looking forward to, but needs to be done!
I changed the oil and filter a few months (a few hundred miles, at the 2020 & dodgy gearbox rate) ago, and they were also changed last year. I am trying to take it gently with the car, 3k rpm changes notwithstanding.
I've had a couple of chats with my local MB parts department recently. Rear loadspace seals are £120odd at the moment so, when the gearbox work is done, I'll look to get the seals. I don't think the ledges are terrible but they will need to be done as there looks to be minor leakage on both sides, and one 2" crusty section of metal inside one of the seals.
MB no longer make the gearbox wiring harnesses - not much of a surprise - but they may be on the list to get redone on my car at some point. I suspect they may not be in the best condition but - touch wood - seem to be working fine. Being disturbed during the box change might change that, though.
I've bought a few manuals & videos from MercedesSource over the weekend, which gave so far proven helpful. One realisation is that, as far as I can tell, mg car is missing half its blower casing! I know my Man has put a shield over something, I think the fan motor, because it was open to the elements. And I've had water ingress problems at the front. Given the state of the scuttle plastics and with the other observations in mind, that seems to be the missing link. I think the part number might be 0008300252 but MB came up with a blank on that, so I may check in with them when I collect the parts I have on order.
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