E90 M3

[E90_M3Ross]

Thanks chaps. On diagnostics they got an error with light control, but "on deeper scan" it disappeared. If this garage can't solve it I'll just take it to an indy. I'm getting really fked off with it now

Just so annoying as everything was working absolutely fine before all of the work, and now it isn't. Full beams are amazing, but can't really drive around with those all the time

[E90_M3Ross]

sdh2903 said:

Did you say the arm for the sensor was replaced? Or were you meaning the suspension arm has been replaced?

The suspension arm. It was OEM direct from BMW so I assume that isn't the cause.

[E90_M3Ross]

TheDoggingFather said:

Definitely worth checking the part numbers to ensure BMW supplied the right one.

The garage who fitted it said it was the same as the one that came off, so I have to assume it's right. If it was wrong, I'd have thought that it wouldn't fit right?

I'd also assume that those with adaptive lights would be the same, considering the adaptive/cornering function is related to steering input, rather than ride height.

Edit - it couldn't be because the car is riding a bit lower? I wouldn't have thought so, but worth checking.

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Tuesday 20th February 21:53

[E90_M3Ross]

If I don't hear anything by about 4pm tomorrow I'll give them a message and see what the situation is. If still not sorted I'll tell them not to worry about it and I'll book it with the BMW specialist. Because of my ankle and not being able to get to my running group I have almost no real need for the car now, so I can happily (well, begrudgingly, really) leave it with them for some time.

But yes, I can't imagine it's anything too complicated.

Either that, or it is a headlights issue and KYCS are fobbing me off

[E90_M3Ross]

BenS94 said:

I don't know why, but I have a terrible feeling that KYCS are fobbing you off...

It does make you wonder. The question is, WTF do I do about it.

Let's say I go to the indy who can't suss it out. Where then? If they did swap the lights out and are telling the truth, it isn't the headlights. However, what I will say, I got a phone call from them saying they'd swapped my lights out 50 mins after it was dropped off. Time enough to remove the bumper? Possibly.

I did pay online using Amex, so there is the option of a dispute.

They sent me a couple of videos of the headlights trying to do their "up/down" procedure on start up and it's hard to tell so I took a couple of screenshots on my phone and, in my opinion, the beam cut-offs do look a bit different but it's a close call, so I'm more inclined to think they're telling the truth. On both sets of lights the "up/down" procedure was the same - i.e. a tiny bit of movement, something I don't think they could replicate. The fact that the sharpness of the beam looks different suggests they are different lights.

I have it in writing on my phone them saying it isn't the headlights, so I think they would be very stupid as it'd be a very simple dispute. If it was an internal issue with the headlights, the issue would have to be present on both headlights, not just one. That is also suggesting it is a more "global" issue (wiring, software/calibration, axle sensors, modules etc).

I've made a folder in google drive - see here

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZkW9zjUlO9...

I have named the files accordingly. Let me know what you think.

[E90_M3Ross]

I messaged KYCS asking if they were 100% sure it wasn't the actual headlights and said I will take to an indy who will have a look, but obviously I won't be too happy if they say it is an issue with the lights....Fair play to them they phoned back and said they're adamant it isn't the headlights but if I want to they're more than happy to have the car back up and I could leave it there for a few days whilst they try to suss it out.

That puts my mind at rest a bit that they aren't telling porkies and thus less likely to be a headlights issue.

The saga continues.

[E90_M3Ross]

Leon R said:

What a nightmare with these lights.

I hate chasing ghosts so I feel your pain.

Yes, it's a bit frustrating to say the least. The fact kycs have offered to take the car back and keep means I'm more confident they did indeed check with other lights (which hadn't been tampered with). This rules out the headlights.

Based on that, it really can't be anything too complicated. I read on a Skoda forum someone had similar with both lights being stupidly low and a software recalibration fixed it. I'm hoping for the same.

Question though - are the motors internal or external to the lights? I'm inclined to think they're OK because they do move up/down a tiny bit on start up, and the fact that it's both headlights, not just one.

[E90_M3Ross]

Leon R said:

The servos themselves that control the up down and side to side movement click into place on the lights (they are made of white plastic and look like a +).

Have they been ruled out already?

No, but likewise I'd have thought kycs would have spotted that, and it'd be pretty bad luck for it to be both sides.

Willber said:

I'd imagine they're internal.

Have you had it on proper BMW diagnostic software to recalibrate them?

That would be a logical next step for me I think. You can see a bit of movement in the videos you linked, so the motors work and perhaps they just needs their 'zero' position setting or something?

Ive just replaced the headlights on my e-class but they only needed manual adjustment rather than diagnostic.

I did have an issue a while ago where one light would go up and down but the other wouldn't, that was caused by a low battery which i dont think will be the case for you.

That's the next step, it's now booked in with my local indy for Monday morning. I have told them the situation and told them I hope it's just a recalibration.

I'll be picking it back up later today or tomorrow.

I'm sure we'll get there!

[E90_M3Ross]

Court_S said:

What an absolute ball ache.

Hopefully it’s a simple fix - I assume that it did the up and down dance before the lights were changed.

Yes. The most noticeable thing is how short the beam is on dipped beam, it doesn't light up very far ahead and now the lights can "bounce" which is a clear indicator the levelling system isn't working.

Something I can't quite remember exactly but basically if the headlight is set to its lowest position the self levelling cannot function properly. If the headlights themselves are not the issue, then it really cannot be anything too complex and I'm hoping that my BMW specialist with ISTA will be able to sort it. If they can't, I am at a loss as to where to go from there!

[E90_M3Ross]

Can someone just confirm for me that the plastic servo thing is in the headlight (ie when they swapped my headlights, this would effectively have been swapped too)?

Seen at 4mins

https://youtu.be/INTR5guk5jQ?si=NnK4Wq_x9TIGZB4N

I'm pretty sure that by swapping the headlights this would rule this is out as an issue but just double checking.

Cheers.

[E90_M3Ross]

W9LL95 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

Can someone just confirm for me that the plastic servo thing is in the headlight (ie when they swapped my headlights, this would effectively have been swapped too)?

Seen at 4mins

https://youtu.be/INTR5guk5jQ?si=NnK4Wq_x9TIGZB4N

I'm pretty sure that by swapping the headlights this would rule this is out as an issue but just double checking.

Cheers.

Can confirm it's inside the headlights. I've taken mine apart to install LED rings. I also swapped my 335i to the M3 front arms which required swapping the levelling sensor (if you haven't already) which was very easy if you fancied tackling it.

Thanks very much for confirming this. That rules that out as an issue then. The front suspension arm is new, as is the front axle height sensor for the lights. The rear sensor is old, but my garage said it looks fine and I'm not convinced it's a hardware issue now, I think it's a software/set up issue and I'm really hoping my indy can fix it.

I don't need the car over the weekend so I may drop it off Friday lunchtime if they'll let me, that'll be easier than tackling rush hour Monday morning.

[E90_M3Ross]

d_a_n1979 said:

Sensors can look fine Ross but can be fuber inside and sometimes don’t like being messed with,

This happened on my Jap import E39 touring; swapped them both out and all was well again with the self levelling xenon’s etc…

Could be worth getting a replacement for the rear one too and seeing what that does for peace of mind…

Thanks Dan, will suggest to my indy when I drop it off.

Cheers.

[E90_M3Ross]

So I picked the car up earlier. Chap who's been dealing with the car is pretty sure it has to be a software issue, but can't understand why. He said if 100% it isn't the lights, it must be software. ISTA has a headlight calibration function, whereas their coding machine does not. It has a light "test" which they tried, and it just moved the headlights up and down a tiny amount, exactly like in the video I got from KYCS.

The indy it is going to I have only used once for a minor job. I am always wary about taking my car somewhere I don't know, but they seem OK so far and have good online reviews. Monday will be a good test for them My garage asked me to tell them what the fix is (when it's done) as they're very baffled by it!

Usually removing and replacing the height sensors doesn't require coding. The same for removing the headlights and replacing. Perhaps doing both at the same time, and having the lights removed for what must have been about 6-7 weeks and then replacing means the car "forgot" its settings or something, I have no idea.

If my indy can't fix it I shall be extremely fked off and fed up, but I'm (fairly) confident they'll be able to.

[E90_M3Ross]

Well maybe it's just the rear axle sensor

What seems strange to me is that KYCS are saying it's not the headlights, as they've swapped them over. That doesn't leave much else aside wiring, rear axle sensor or module (unlikely, I think).

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Thursday 22 February 14:10

[E90_M3Ross]

pmorg4 said:

It's unlikely, but not impossible, that the new front level sensor is faulty. Hence why it's well worth plugging in to the correct software, as you can take live readings front and rear while you move the suspension, then activate each headlight individually and methodically eliminate each component.

Good luck, sounds like it's been a total nightmare trying to get to the bottom of this.

Found this I can't imagine it's much different

https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threa...

That suggests to me that it could be a software issue

I really don't think it's the new front sensor being faulty..... What are the odds of the original sensor being faulty AND the new sensor being faulty? Very low, I'd say.

Edit - yeah it's been a mare, but at least going to Birmingham and back and to various garages it's been getting some use the car feels really good, really planted and it's running well.... Just these fecking lights!

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Thursday 22 February 14:18

[E90_M3Ross]

My headlights aren't adaptive/swivelling, so it's just up/down.

Garage have also said they swapped the front and rear sensors and still no luck either, before switching them back again.

[E90_M3Ross]

That is for the adaptive headlights, which are different to mine.

[E90_M3Ross]

pmorg4 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

That is for the adaptive headlights, which are different to mine.

Ah, I didn't realise yours aren't AHL. However I think the same principle applies to the levelling for non-AHL xenons.

We shall see. Xenon systems are largely the same throughout, I have read 2 forums (Skoda and now that Merc one) where they had similar issues resolved by software calibration, so it seems reasonable to hope that may work.

Whilst you say calibration isn't possible, it is, there is a calibration function in ISTA. Either way, if it isn't the headlights then I'm sure the indy can fix it. If it is the headlights it'll be a royal pain, as it's back to Birmingham.

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Thursday 22 February 14:41

[E90_M3Ross]

Alignment report too. Quite a few changes since it had all settled.

[E90_M3Ross]

RicksAlfas said:

I was putting the headlights back on my old Alfa and it made me think of this palaver. Three self tappers each and that's it.
Hope you get it sorted Ross!

Hopefully the indy will be able to sort it. I don't need the car over the weekend, and to save the hassle of Monday morning rush hour I'm going to drop it off this afternoon.