BMW E39 M5 touring build #2
Discussion
Sf_Manta said:
BSSBMW said:
Sf_Manta said:
Absolutely glorious work there.
Any plans for some choice upgrades to refine the package overall? or just a refreshed OEM setup?
Thanks!Any plans for some choice upgrades to refine the package overall? or just a refreshed OEM setup?
Pretty much the same recipe as last time so Bilstein shocks, EIbach front springs and a thicker rear anti roll bar. Eibach bars are NLA so unless a used one turns up (or a pair) I will prob end up forking out for a Dinan one.
Either way, absolutely loving the attention to detail.
Would you know how much work it is to put a S54B32 into a 330i Touring per chance? Mechanically i know it fits, but how much of a ball ache is it with getting the wiring / coding done?
RE an S54 into an E46 330i, very straight forward with minimal wiring alterations and a little coding.
Edited by BSSBMW on Thursday 9th March 15:32
Managed to get some time on the build this weekend.
Finished off the brake pipes above the rear axle using new pipes bent to shape using the originals as a template then tidied up the pressure accumulators for the self levelling rear suspension before bolting those up with new fittings.
Manual pedal box bolted in before making a start on.......
..... the wiring! The M5 saloon body loom (minus the audio and sat nav loom) laid out to begin the harvest.
Mid way through extracting specific wires by cutting the loom tape open and de-pining the wire from the terminal on relevant connector.
Some of the harvested wires with their relevant wiring diagrams.
One of the main points where the some of the wires pass through from behind the dashboard into the E-box in the engine bay. Wires were threaded through the rubber grommet.
The gap in the hole in the previous pic is covered with a plastic panel which needed to be swapped out with the M5 specific one as the M5 uses an E-box fan as seen in the pic, to keep the MSS52 DME (engine ECU) cool.
Next stage with the wiring will be to remove the dashboard, route them to their relevant points such as the switch panel for the sport button, clutch switch for the cruise control, instrument cluster, plus a few other points then tape the cables into the existing loom.
Finished off the brake pipes above the rear axle using new pipes bent to shape using the originals as a template then tidied up the pressure accumulators for the self levelling rear suspension before bolting those up with new fittings.
Manual pedal box bolted in before making a start on.......
..... the wiring! The M5 saloon body loom (minus the audio and sat nav loom) laid out to begin the harvest.
Mid way through extracting specific wires by cutting the loom tape open and de-pining the wire from the terminal on relevant connector.
Some of the harvested wires with their relevant wiring diagrams.
One of the main points where the some of the wires pass through from behind the dashboard into the E-box in the engine bay. Wires were threaded through the rubber grommet.
The gap in the hole in the previous pic is covered with a plastic panel which needed to be swapped out with the M5 specific one as the M5 uses an E-box fan as seen in the pic, to keep the MSS52 DME (engine ECU) cool.
Next stage with the wiring will be to remove the dashboard, route them to their relevant points such as the switch panel for the sport button, clutch switch for the cruise control, instrument cluster, plus a few other points then tape the cables into the existing loom.
bolidemichael said:
It's quite something to be confident in tackling both mechanicals and electricals.
Barry, I mentioned this thread to the marketing guys at OH when I saw them today at the Sunday Service. They'll be inviting some RC owners to display their vehicles at the PH25 event in Bicester, so if you're around it may be worth submitting an application, if you haven't already done so.
Ticket bought and application submitted so lets see!Barry, I mentioned this thread to the marketing guys at OH when I saw them today at the Sunday Service. They'll be inviting some RC owners to display their vehicles at the PH25 event in Bicester, so if you're around it may be worth submitting an application, if you haven't already done so.
More weekend progress......
Carrying on with the wiring changes meant the upper dashboard needed to come out to run the additional wiring into the existing loom taping it all in with the correct Tessa tape.
With the dash out and the steering column stripped down, the ignition lock barrel housing needed to be swapped over as on the automatic cars, there is a start interlock cable (visible in the first pic) that prevents the key from being removed unless it is in Park. Simply removing the cable isn't enough as the cable has a sprung loaded pin to push a lever in the housing to release the key. After drilling out the sheer bolts, it was swapped over for the manual spec lock barrel housing.
If you look closely you can see the right housing has a threaded hole for the cable and the left housing has a blind hole.
Dash top back in, the M5 instrument cluster was fitted in place. Keith from AK speedo had done the business before hand sorting the usual dead pixels.
Waiting in the wings were the M5 front seats in black nappa heritage leather. These had received some restoration work from Barker restorations as they were looking a bit tired when pulled from the donor M5.
All four doors received new membranes. A common water ingress point on the E39 (and other BMW's) due to either the butyl tape which holds them on coming unstuck due to age or by some beastly action where someone has been in there replacing a window reg or central locking actuator.
Someone had been in both rear doors I suspect the try and reseal them due to the first reason but they had used some sealant that was a nightmare to get off the door before I could reapply fresh butyl tape. Each rear door took over an hour to clean where as the unmolested fronts only took 10 min to remove the 20 year old butyl tape.
A lucky score was a nice upgrade for this project......
..... but before we get to that, for anyone that knows E39's will appreciate this pic. For those that don't, the door cads can suffer from water damage from the aforementioned membrane issues. A set of door cards were found of which none had any water ingress damage being a black mouldy mess of weakened card.
The door cards were of the complete leather variety, ie a fully leather trimmed panel bar the door top. Complete leather was an expensive option on the M5 so it was nice to find a complete set with its accompanying parts.
Those parts being the whole lower dashboard and centre console.
M5 specific switch pack with the all important SPORT button.
An overall snap of of the interior progress with one of the seats fitted.
One aspect not mentioned so far in the post is the wood. Ah BMW wood!
To many, any attempt at wood in anything other than a big slab across the dash and door tops in a Rolls or Jag is just not going to cut it. Many types of "wood" have been offered in BMW's over the years including the E39 in general.
On the M5 a wood veneer called Buryere was offered and was only available on the M5 which comprised of the usual dash, door strips and gear lever surround plus the gear knob and hand brake lever.
The donor M5 was specced with this trim which is relatively rare compared to the more common M5 specific titan shadow trim but the previous owner had started to replace the wood with the very common silver trim from a lesser M sport model.
Sadly whoever removed the wood had damaged a few pieces resulting a some cracks and bent pieces. A heat gun managed to straighten out the bent parts so I will have to hunt to replace the cracked parts as they are all NLA from BMW.
Carrying on with the wiring changes meant the upper dashboard needed to come out to run the additional wiring into the existing loom taping it all in with the correct Tessa tape.
With the dash out and the steering column stripped down, the ignition lock barrel housing needed to be swapped over as on the automatic cars, there is a start interlock cable (visible in the first pic) that prevents the key from being removed unless it is in Park. Simply removing the cable isn't enough as the cable has a sprung loaded pin to push a lever in the housing to release the key. After drilling out the sheer bolts, it was swapped over for the manual spec lock barrel housing.
If you look closely you can see the right housing has a threaded hole for the cable and the left housing has a blind hole.
Dash top back in, the M5 instrument cluster was fitted in place. Keith from AK speedo had done the business before hand sorting the usual dead pixels.
Waiting in the wings were the M5 front seats in black nappa heritage leather. These had received some restoration work from Barker restorations as they were looking a bit tired when pulled from the donor M5.
All four doors received new membranes. A common water ingress point on the E39 (and other BMW's) due to either the butyl tape which holds them on coming unstuck due to age or by some beastly action where someone has been in there replacing a window reg or central locking actuator.
Someone had been in both rear doors I suspect the try and reseal them due to the first reason but they had used some sealant that was a nightmare to get off the door before I could reapply fresh butyl tape. Each rear door took over an hour to clean where as the unmolested fronts only took 10 min to remove the 20 year old butyl tape.
A lucky score was a nice upgrade for this project......
..... but before we get to that, for anyone that knows E39's will appreciate this pic. For those that don't, the door cads can suffer from water damage from the aforementioned membrane issues. A set of door cards were found of which none had any water ingress damage being a black mouldy mess of weakened card.
The door cards were of the complete leather variety, ie a fully leather trimmed panel bar the door top. Complete leather was an expensive option on the M5 so it was nice to find a complete set with its accompanying parts.
Those parts being the whole lower dashboard and centre console.
M5 specific switch pack with the all important SPORT button.
An overall snap of of the interior progress with one of the seats fitted.
One aspect not mentioned so far in the post is the wood. Ah BMW wood!
To many, any attempt at wood in anything other than a big slab across the dash and door tops in a Rolls or Jag is just not going to cut it. Many types of "wood" have been offered in BMW's over the years including the E39 in general.
On the M5 a wood veneer called Buryere was offered and was only available on the M5 which comprised of the usual dash, door strips and gear lever surround plus the gear knob and hand brake lever.
The donor M5 was specced with this trim which is relatively rare compared to the more common M5 specific titan shadow trim but the previous owner had started to replace the wood with the very common silver trim from a lesser M sport model.
Sadly whoever removed the wood had damaged a few pieces resulting a some cracks and bent pieces. A heat gun managed to straighten out the bent parts so I will have to hunt to replace the cracked parts as they are all NLA from BMW.
Edited by BSSBMW on Sunday 19th March 23:28
Edited by BSSBMW on Sunday 19th March 23:29
Chunkychucky said:
Epic, love seeing these updates! Just when I think it can't get any better, Heritage leather too so no Ostrich 
Still working on a bank I can rob to buy this one when it's finished given I missed the first one!
Agreed, I much prefer the Heritage leather as well. Caramel would be lovely the black works with the grey.Still working on a bank I can rob to buy this one when it's finished given I missed the first one!
CB 987 said:
Barry,
This is looking fantastic, I am big fan of the wood trim in this. I swapped out the aluminium trim in previous E39 for wood, personally I much prefer it.
The extended leather is a subtle but great touch. Do you have a plan for the rear seat yet? Will you re-trim the touring rear in a heritage style to match the fronts and swap the headrests over?
Looking forward to hopefully seeing it in the flesh when it’s completed.
Cheers.
I have the M5 rear head rests to go in and will be getting the rear bench trimmed to match.This is looking fantastic, I am big fan of the wood trim in this. I swapped out the aluminium trim in previous E39 for wood, personally I much prefer it.
The extended leather is a subtle but great touch. Do you have a plan for the rear seat yet? Will you re-trim the touring rear in a heritage style to match the fronts and swap the headrests over?
Looking forward to hopefully seeing it in the flesh when it’s completed.
Cheers.
More weekend progress.
The inside of the car is pretty much back together minus the rear seat. The Load shackles have been left off as I need to gain access later on to where the rear air springs connect and also as the plastic load sill cover is looking decidedly tires so will be replaced with a new one.
All of the wiring and electrical components for the audio and nav and back where they belong. As with the green M5T, I've retained the self levelling rear air suspension so the compressor now fits in the section in front of the battery tray. The eagle eyed will spot a hydraulic unit resting just in front, this is the pump for the powered tailgate, a feature the green car didn't have so I need to make a bracket for this plus one for the SLS control unit.
Various new parts piling up getting ready for the major mechanical work.
The remaining M5 fuel supply system fitted up with all new pipework and filter.
A couple of other remaining bits of wiring were finished off in the engine bay in preparation for the engine installation.
Until next weeks update!
The inside of the car is pretty much back together minus the rear seat. The Load shackles have been left off as I need to gain access later on to where the rear air springs connect and also as the plastic load sill cover is looking decidedly tires so will be replaced with a new one.
All of the wiring and electrical components for the audio and nav and back where they belong. As with the green M5T, I've retained the self levelling rear air suspension so the compressor now fits in the section in front of the battery tray. The eagle eyed will spot a hydraulic unit resting just in front, this is the pump for the powered tailgate, a feature the green car didn't have so I need to make a bracket for this plus one for the SLS control unit.
Various new parts piling up getting ready for the major mechanical work.
The remaining M5 fuel supply system fitted up with all new pipework and filter.
A couple of other remaining bits of wiring were finished off in the engine bay in preparation for the engine installation.
Until next weeks update!
This weekend saw an important stage in the build.
The M5 front subframe and anti roll bar had been blasted and painted not long after the donor car was stripped so these were finally put to use. Built up with new engine mounts, new powerflex ARB bushes, new shackles, all new PAS hoses along with the steering box checked and adjusted, all in preparation to take an important part of the car.
The refurbished cam covers that had been vapour blasted and painted were fitted to the engine before being bolted to the subframe.
Old plugs out and fresh set of NGK's fitted.
The following morning the clutch, flywheel and gearbox were bolted up then the ignition coils and covers in preparation for the "marriage".
The all important new cooling system expansion tank to replace the nasty yellowed old one.
Marriage complete! One S62B50 mated to the touring shell.
Now I guess there are many of you thinking "what no engine work before it went in?" Well no not exactly and there is reasoning behind that......
Prior to removal from the M5, the engine (and various other things) were checked and tested. Concentrating on the engine, the fault memory was read from the car upon arrival with only a bank 2 post cat O2 sensor fault stored. Spark plugs were then removed and the bores inspected for scoring to which none was found so compression and cylinder leakage tests were carried out with no issues found thankfully. Plugs refitted then VANOS test conducted which passed so after that a short road test was conducted "on a private road" to make sure the gearbox was ok and the recently replaced clutch and flywheel were without issues.
This all correlated to the good history record for the car which despite being a rusty old barnacle, it was a well serviced and non abused barnacle!
Now I could have gone down the route of replacing some of the usual suspects such as the timing chains and guides, rod bearings, VANOS seals etc etc but I am keen so see how far engines can last without being opened up for repairs and I find high milers endearing, high mileage to me is a badge of honour not something to be scorned or looked down upon!
I was once tempted by a circa 450k mile E36 320i coupe that was on its third service book!
The S62B50 is, unlike some of the newer offerings from BMW, capable of big mileage without major surgery. There are a few examples here in the UK with 300k+ miles and in the states some with 400-500k miles claiming to be without major engine work!
So lets see how this one goes.... if it all goes terribly wrong I'll just pull it out then rebuild the engine. I have a bunch of new parts for the S62 on the shelf already.
The M5 front subframe and anti roll bar had been blasted and painted not long after the donor car was stripped so these were finally put to use. Built up with new engine mounts, new powerflex ARB bushes, new shackles, all new PAS hoses along with the steering box checked and adjusted, all in preparation to take an important part of the car.
The refurbished cam covers that had been vapour blasted and painted were fitted to the engine before being bolted to the subframe.
Old plugs out and fresh set of NGK's fitted.
The following morning the clutch, flywheel and gearbox were bolted up then the ignition coils and covers in preparation for the "marriage".
The all important new cooling system expansion tank to replace the nasty yellowed old one.
Marriage complete! One S62B50 mated to the touring shell.
Now I guess there are many of you thinking "what no engine work before it went in?" Well no not exactly and there is reasoning behind that......
Prior to removal from the M5, the engine (and various other things) were checked and tested. Concentrating on the engine, the fault memory was read from the car upon arrival with only a bank 2 post cat O2 sensor fault stored. Spark plugs were then removed and the bores inspected for scoring to which none was found so compression and cylinder leakage tests were carried out with no issues found thankfully. Plugs refitted then VANOS test conducted which passed so after that a short road test was conducted "on a private road" to make sure the gearbox was ok and the recently replaced clutch and flywheel were without issues.
This all correlated to the good history record for the car which despite being a rusty old barnacle, it was a well serviced and non abused barnacle!
Now I could have gone down the route of replacing some of the usual suspects such as the timing chains and guides, rod bearings, VANOS seals etc etc but I am keen so see how far engines can last without being opened up for repairs and I find high milers endearing, high mileage to me is a badge of honour not something to be scorned or looked down upon!
I was once tempted by a circa 450k mile E36 320i coupe that was on its third service book!
The S62B50 is, unlike some of the newer offerings from BMW, capable of big mileage without major surgery. There are a few examples here in the UK with 300k+ miles and in the states some with 400-500k miles claiming to be without major engine work!
So lets see how this one goes.... if it all goes terribly wrong I'll just pull it out then rebuild the engine. I have a bunch of new parts for the S62 on the shelf already.
bolidemichael said:
I love the care and management of high mileage engines, too.
Powerflex bushes... I'm assuming that this is a brand and not OEM? If so, why the preference?
Also, as this is a working garage -- do you take the car off the ramp after you've finished the weekend work on it, or are you just trying up a ramp for the duration?
The Powerflex bushes are just polyurethane bushes which I also used on the last build for the ARB's. They are one of the few bushes on a car that wont effect the compliance but will help firm the roll stiffness slightly. When you buy a set of upgraded roll bars from the likes of Eibach, H&R etc they always come with polly buhses.Powerflex bushes... I'm assuming that this is a brand and not OEM? If so, why the preference?
Also, as this is a working garage -- do you take the car off the ramp after you've finished the weekend work on it, or are you just trying up a ramp for the duration?
Every Monday morning the car gets pushed out of the workshop and pushed back in on Friday/Saturday so it needs to be in a state where it will roll come Monday.
helix402 said:
Off topic-but IMHO-the best BMW engine for high mileage is the M57. I’ve run a modified one to over 250k. My second best is the original non vanos M50.
They are indeed a solid engine, one of the best BMW have made although I have seen a couple with big (250-300k) miles where the chain has stretched and started to rub through the lower timing cover.daver1184 said:
My N52B30 is on 248k and counting...
Certainly one of the better N** petrol engines from BMW.E90_M3Ross said:
Tough call but I think the old M30 is a very good lump for reliability.
I-am-the-reverend said:
M30 was what, E28 era? They were known for camshaft wear, cracked heads, head gaskets etc. Fixed a few of those back in the day!
The golden era for BMW reliability was the 1990's with the E34 etc, the 24 valve M50 etc.
Nice work on the Touring. It'll be a lovely thing when done.
Bang on RE the M30 (and M20).The golden era for BMW reliability was the 1990's with the E34 etc, the 24 valve M50 etc.
Nice work on the Touring. It'll be a lovely thing when done.
Edited by I-am-the-reverend on Thursday 6th April 15:25
Indeed, I would concur that peak BMW for engine robustness is the early 90's, the M50 non vanos being best and as previously mentioned, I was tempted by a 450k mile E36 320i still on its original engine and third service book!
The S14 and an S38B36 are also near bulletproof.
Easter weekend allowed some more time on the build.
The original M5 brake callipers were quite corroded so I had them blasted and painted before reassembling them with new pistons, seals, slider mounts and nipples.
When the engine and box went in with the front subframe, all four suspension arms were replaced with new. Next up was to replace the all the tired and corroded original M5 shock absorber and coil spring hardware with new genuine top mounts, Bilstein B8's, Eibach pro kit springs, new drop links and track rod ends to go on the centre drag link that had recently been replaced on the M5 so that was cleaned and reused.
All bolted up along with callipers, new genuine discs and pads plus some HEL braided brake hoses.
Next up was replacing all the gear linkage bushes and joints to tighten up the worn linkage and at the same time, a change from the original M5 shift lever to the short shift from an E60 545i, a well known upgrade used on the E39 M5 and E46 M3.
Often, some people replace just the shift lever without refreshing all the joints and bushes when fitting a shorter shifter on all sorts of BMW's so they dont get the full benefit of the change.
E60 545i shifter vs the E39 M5 one.
The engine bay is pretty much complete with the plenum and both intakes fitted as well as the remote oil filter housing and PAS system fully plumbed in,
With some fluids in, it was time for its first start with the S62 in the touring shell! It fired up straight away but I only ran it for a few seconds as the exhaust was not fitted.
The original M5 brake callipers were quite corroded so I had them blasted and painted before reassembling them with new pistons, seals, slider mounts and nipples.
When the engine and box went in with the front subframe, all four suspension arms were replaced with new. Next up was to replace the all the tired and corroded original M5 shock absorber and coil spring hardware with new genuine top mounts, Bilstein B8's, Eibach pro kit springs, new drop links and track rod ends to go on the centre drag link that had recently been replaced on the M5 so that was cleaned and reused.
All bolted up along with callipers, new genuine discs and pads plus some HEL braided brake hoses.
Next up was replacing all the gear linkage bushes and joints to tighten up the worn linkage and at the same time, a change from the original M5 shift lever to the short shift from an E60 545i, a well known upgrade used on the E39 M5 and E46 M3.
Often, some people replace just the shift lever without refreshing all the joints and bushes when fitting a shorter shifter on all sorts of BMW's so they dont get the full benefit of the change.
E60 545i shifter vs the E39 M5 one.
The engine bay is pretty much complete with the plenum and both intakes fitted as well as the remote oil filter housing and PAS system fully plumbed in,
With some fluids in, it was time for its first start with the S62 in the touring shell! It fired up straight away but I only ran it for a few seconds as the exhaust was not fitted.
Edited by BSSBMW on Monday 10th April 20:23
tvrfan007 said:
bolidemichael said:
BSSBMW said:
Easter weekend allowed some more time on the build.
The original M5 brake callipers were quite corroded so I had them blasted and painted before reassembling them with new pistons, seals, slider mounts and nipples.
In case you're unaware, this is known as knolling. The original M5 brake callipers were quite corroded so I had them blasted and painted before reassembling them with new pistons, seals, slider mounts and nipples.
And Meh! I just call it laying parts out for a photo!
More "knolling" this weekend in preparation for building up the rear axle.
2x new drive shafts and bolts
Rebuild LSD
2x Bilstein B6 shock absorbers
4 x subframe rubber mounts
3x differential rubber mounts
All four upper arms
2x intergral links
2x lower ball joints
2x wheel bearings
Rebuilt brake callipers
Genuine BMW pads and discs
Custom HEL braided brake lines to allow M5 callipers on touring hubs
New chassis brake bars and tunnel brace
2x new Arnott Air springs (not in picture)
That lot essentially means every bit that wears out on the rear of the car has been replaced bar one thing not mentioned but more on that in a minute.
The rear axle built up and ready to go in. The eagle eyed among you will notice that the rear anti roll bar and its drop links are missing. I have been trying to find an Eibach adjustable rear anti roll bar like what I used on the last M5T build but I've drawn a blank so an new M5 rear bar, bushes and drop links have been ordered.
[/url]A close up of the touring rear subframe modification to clear the M5 LSD back plate. Essentially the M5 saloon rear subframe is copied
in that the centre sectioned is removed and four strengthening tabs are welded on.
We are getting to the stage where some nice shiny bits can be bolted on. The staggered set of style 65 M5 wheels were sent to Lepsons for refurbishment in the original shadow chrome finish then shod with a fresh set pf Michelin PS4 tyres plus some new badges ready to bolt up.
Pressing on this weekend has meant some good progress has been made!
The M5 rear anti roll bar turned up from Germany so that along with new bushes, steel E36 M3 ARB bush shackles (E39 alloy ones often break) and new drop links make up all the hardware related to the bar.
With the rear anti roll bar fitted up and the M5 chassis braces, that finished off the rear axle and meant the M5's quad exhaust could be fitted which completed the underside.
Hunter four wheel alignment completed after the rear self leveling suspension was calibrated.
With everything checked and double checked it was time for its maiden voyage! A short drive to the local petrol station to fill the tank before going back on the alignment rig to tweak it. No dramas but took it easy to begin with as the brakes are all new as is the LSD internals.
A big milestone reached today!
The M5 rear anti roll bar turned up from Germany so that along with new bushes, steel E36 M3 ARB bush shackles (E39 alloy ones often break) and new drop links make up all the hardware related to the bar.
With the rear anti roll bar fitted up and the M5 chassis braces, that finished off the rear axle and meant the M5's quad exhaust could be fitted which completed the underside.
Hunter four wheel alignment completed after the rear self leveling suspension was calibrated.
With everything checked and double checked it was time for its maiden voyage! A short drive to the local petrol station to fill the tank before going back on the alignment rig to tweak it. No dramas but took it easy to begin with as the brakes are all new as is the LSD internals.
A big milestone reached today!
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