1998 Mercedes-Benz CL420 (C140)
Discussion
honevo said:
Nice car honevo. Thanks for your post regarding springs. They're a bloody pain.
The way I see it I have two options:
1. Take a punt on my 2015 invoice and order the same part number, in the hope it is correct and accurate (or equivalent from Autodoc for a 6-cylinder saloon). The pair is £100 with discount from CP4L.
2. Ask the garage to cut the springs I have (he mentioned it but I don't think he was overly keen on the idea).
I'll call the garage and sound him out first.
Do you know what SACHS part number you had fitted? Thanks
Springs never settle in my experience and I have had to replace them on every MB I have had. They're correct or not at the time of fitment.
The SACHS rear springs I had fitted seem OK, if anything a touch lower but acceptable.
Rear springs are NLS from MB for mine so probably for yours if you have 2 red paint marks.
The SACHS rear springs I had fitted seem OK, if anything a touch lower but acceptable.
Rear springs are NLS from MB for mine so probably for yours if you have 2 red paint marks.
I think the main issue is that there are only two part numbers still available from MB and the lack of information of the specifications. Compare my earlier post on the list of front spring part numbers; they're all dead bar two. AMG springs? Forget it, all NLS.
What annoys me most is that I have the colour codes on the original springs and MB can match them but there are way over height. Perhaps something changed in the manufacture, but I don't know.
I am slowly accepting that a 23-year-old car which sold in low numbers has limited parts from MB. However what grates is that I have the colour codes and instead of MB saying they're NLS and sort yourself out, it has supplied wrong height springs under the 'that's all that is left' excuse. w
kers.
The shims is an interesting angle but the difference between maximum and minimum is 18mm. I am way over that margin.
What annoys me most is that I have the colour codes on the original springs and MB can match them but there are way over height. Perhaps something changed in the manufacture, but I don't know.
I am slowly accepting that a 23-year-old car which sold in low numbers has limited parts from MB. However what grates is that I have the colour codes and instead of MB saying they're NLS and sort yourself out, it has supplied wrong height springs under the 'that's all that is left' excuse. w
kers.The shims is an interesting angle but the difference between maximum and minimum is 18mm. I am way over that margin.
Stegel said:
I would certainly look at spring pads. I’ve ordered a few types from Autodoc (Meyle) as I have new (MB) springs for my A124 and envisage trouble getting it sitting right. I haven’t measured them but there is substantial difference thinnest to thickest. The springs sit part way between the pivot point of the arm and the wheel which means the effect of pad change on ride height is greater than actual pad thickness, so I reckon 18mm pad difference equates to a multiple of that in ride height.
Thanks Stegel, I was not aware of that but it makes sense so something more to ponder. I would really like to pay the garage just one more time as the labour costs add up each time he removes the springs. Plus I think he's tiring of me though he accepts it's definitely a lot higher.
Stegel said:
The pads are £3ish on Autodoc, probably not much more from MB, but as you allude to swapping multiple times is not quite as straightforward as buying every pad variation. I think the important first move is to check how many pips are on the pads already on the car - it’s a blind alley if they are already the thinnest single pip pads.
Yes, a fair point. I used an unofficial points calculator here http://www.catcar.info/mercedes/?lang=en&l=Y2x... and if I totted-up correctly I should have the thickest shims (or 2nd thickest). Shims are £12 each from MB.
honevo I think yours is sitting a bit higher than mine. I forgot to take a picture after the SACHS springs were fitted and I am now on MB springs. The part number on my bill for the SACHS springs is not 997025 and isn't returned in any internet searching so I have no idea from where the garage sourced them.
I'll take a picture today as I want to measure the height as it is now, just in case I am fortunate enough to not have the thinnest shims already.
I'll take a picture today as I want to measure the height as it is now, just in case I am fortunate enough to not have the thinnest shims already.
I took it out for a three-figure blast down to Whitchurch and back. The battery is low as it cranked over slowly but it caught first turn. I measured the height of the SACHS springs still in the boot and they are 497mm.
I didn't know if one could find out what shim is fitted without removing the springs but it's remarkably easy. Run your finger across the shim at the top of the spring and one can feel the 'bumps'. I have three therefore my shims are 18mm. I could fit the 8mm shim and thus I should drop by 20mm, which I think should be OK and more cost-effective.
The height from the top of the arch to the middle of the wheel is 405mm
I didn't know if one could find out what shim is fitted without removing the springs but it's remarkably easy. Run your finger across the shim at the top of the spring and one can feel the 'bumps'. I have three therefore my shims are 18mm. I could fit the 8mm shim and thus I should drop by 20mm, which I think should be OK and more cost-effective.
The height from the top of the arch to the middle of the wheel is 405mm
Edited by tobinen on Saturday 17th April 13:23
Hello, from eBay seller carpartsinmotion. I just entered the MB part number and these came up. I don't think you can run without the shims as they cushion the top of the spring to the body.
I am booked in 18 May. My garage says it is a tricky job as the springs are large but I chatted to him yesterday and he says he's now used to it, or at least less stressed about it.
I am booked in 18 May. My garage says it is a tricky job as the springs are large but I chatted to him yesterday and he says he's now used to it, or at least less stressed about it.
Yes I ordered 8mm shims (1 bump) as stated earlier to replace 18mm shims (3 bumps). You need to feel your current shims to check what you have now. See my earlier post below:
tobinen said:
I didn't know if one could find out what shim is fitted without removing the springs but it's remarkably easy. Run your finger across the shim at the top of the spring and one can feel the 'bumps'. I have three therefore my shims are 18mm.
It's better but not as it was before all this palaver. I will take a picture later. Overall it's just about acceptable and given another £240 has left my wallet my resolve is waning. The garage also missed my request to check the alignment as it still pulls to the left. It's booked in next week for that.
I wonder if it's time for a change..?
I wonder if it's time for a change..?
Back to the SACHS springs and 8mm Febi shims
Well it's not all good news. In fact one might say it's 50% good/bad news. I picked it up and it looked better - not as it was before all this caper but just about acceptable and I could live with it. When I returned home I wandered around it and thought the other side didn't look quite right.
Out with the tape measure and sure enough the left side is 10mm higher than the right. I swore loudly in my head.
Thus it is booked in next week for the left spring height issue and alignment.
I will take some snaps later. To be continued...
Well it's not all good news. In fact one might say it's 50% good/bad news. I picked it up and it looked better - not as it was before all this caper but just about acceptable and I could live with it. When I returned home I wandered around it and thought the other side didn't look quite right.
Out with the tape measure and sure enough the left side is 10mm higher than the right. I swore loudly in my head.
Thus it is booked in next week for the left spring height issue and alignment.
I will take some snaps later. To be continued...
I took it out for an evening blast, put some fuel in it and had another check. I either made a mistake measuring or something has changed as now both springs are at 380mm, so 25mm lower than MB springs and 18mm shims. I don't think it looks too bad and at some angles it's pretty much there. In a perfect world I'd want another 10mm but I've had my fill of front springs for now.
It's job done unless I really want to risk another pair of front springs with the associated labour. It also had a treat of £10 worth of Romanian love
Sadly I scraped the Romanians' workshop door on the way out. FML etc.
It's job done unless I really want to risk another pair of front springs with the associated labour. It also had a treat of £10 worth of Romanian love
Sadly I scraped the Romanians' workshop door on the way out. FML etc.
Whilst chatting with Stegel and BM at the end of the Scramble I mentioned my climate control wasn't as cool as it had been. Stegel mentioned the diagnostic feature so off the internet I go. It blows cold air but never seems to keep the cabin cool on sunny days. I usually have to set at 19° or 20°C
My outside temperature gauge is faulty so it's bound to be a new sensor. £72 from MB and cheaper than most eBay sellers so that's to be ordered.
The right display has lost the two left vertical bars which is annoying.
Into the fault codes by switching on the ignition, set one side to LO and the other to HI. Press REST and recirc together and hold for 5 seconds.
One stored code for internal temperature sensor (b1227) and one for external temperature sensor (b1226). The codes start at b1226 so it is not b1225
I cleared the codes, switched the ignition off and on and only the outside temperature sensor error remained, which ties in with the above.
But if it's high then my logic would be that it should want to keep the car cold.
With the engine running and then set back to 19°C one presses REST for 5 seconds and it goes in to the live values. The pertinent ones are:
1 = internal temperature
2 = outside temperature
4 = right heat exchanger sensor
After a few minutes it settled down to a steady blow when the value of 1 = 23°C. The value of 2 = 20. If 2 = 20 then it must be taking the outside temperature from a different sensor and not the one from the gauge in the clocks. Hmm, the cabin still felt too warm
I incorrectly thought that the internal temperature sensor is in the centre vents below the parking sensor display but when I held my finger over it the value of 1 did not change.
Looking up in the roof console there is another tiny grille and holding my finger over that increased the value of 1 quite quickly to 30°C if I held it there. Removing my finger saw the value drop back down to 23°C.
I usually have my centre vents pointing upwards so I wondered if the sensor was reading the cool air and thus not making an effort to keep the cabin cooler. I moved the vents to point lower and sure enough the fan speed increased slightly and cooler air came out.
After a while 1 = 25°C and stayed there but with an increased flow of cooler air from the vents. I changed the control to 18°C and the value of 1 = 24°C. 17°C and the value of 1 = 23°C.
Is the system designed to have a 6°C difference between the control setting and the internal temperature? I don't know but it was consistent. Test results therefore are to try it with the vents pointing lower.
Just as I called it a day the right dash/door vent started throwing out very hot air which confused me. The value of 4 = 73, 78 or 79°C. I switched it off and went in for dinner.
My outside temperature gauge is faulty so it's bound to be a new sensor. £72 from MB and cheaper than most eBay sellers so that's to be ordered.
The right display has lost the two left vertical bars which is annoying.
Into the fault codes by switching on the ignition, set one side to LO and the other to HI. Press REST and recirc together and hold for 5 seconds.
One stored code for internal temperature sensor (b1227) and one for external temperature sensor (b1226). The codes start at b1226 so it is not b1225
I cleared the codes, switched the ignition off and on and only the outside temperature sensor error remained, which ties in with the above.
But if it's high then my logic would be that it should want to keep the car cold.
With the engine running and then set back to 19°C one presses REST for 5 seconds and it goes in to the live values. The pertinent ones are:
1 = internal temperature
2 = outside temperature
4 = right heat exchanger sensor
After a few minutes it settled down to a steady blow when the value of 1 = 23°C. The value of 2 = 20. If 2 = 20 then it must be taking the outside temperature from a different sensor and not the one from the gauge in the clocks. Hmm, the cabin still felt too warm
I incorrectly thought that the internal temperature sensor is in the centre vents below the parking sensor display but when I held my finger over it the value of 1 did not change.
Looking up in the roof console there is another tiny grille and holding my finger over that increased the value of 1 quite quickly to 30°C if I held it there. Removing my finger saw the value drop back down to 23°C.
I usually have my centre vents pointing upwards so I wondered if the sensor was reading the cool air and thus not making an effort to keep the cabin cooler. I moved the vents to point lower and sure enough the fan speed increased slightly and cooler air came out.
After a while 1 = 25°C and stayed there but with an increased flow of cooler air from the vents. I changed the control to 18°C and the value of 1 = 24°C. 17°C and the value of 1 = 23°C.
Is the system designed to have a 6°C difference between the control setting and the internal temperature? I don't know but it was consistent. Test results therefore are to try it with the vents pointing lower.
Just as I called it a day the right dash/door vent started throwing out very hot air which confused me. The value of 4 = 73, 78 or 79°C. I switched it off and went in for dinner.
Edited by tobinen on Monday 7th June 19:44
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