BMW M52 Defender 110
Discussion
dukeofbork said:
I’ve been trying to not just do the m57 as i was thinking of the m52 but this is twisting my arm
The M52 was lovely to be honest, if I hadn't have broken (again) I would have certainly still have it.Tbh, in a soft top 90 that setup would have been an absolute riot!!!
Hopefully though the M57 and autobox will be completely different in a postive way!
So it's all together, moving and MOT booked for Monday morning.
I've done a few miles round locally to give it a bit of a gentle run in...
Obviously got caught out by loose hoses and popping intercooler hoses but no fundamental disasters.
It's supposedly a remap upto around 290hp and 600nm... With the 8hp constantly jumping around it actually felt quite weak as it was always flapping around. However, put in manual mode and in 5th... Geeeeeee wizz.. definitely feels the power and much much more muscular than the old M52.
Problem, I always loved the brakes with the M52, they seemed to have lots of bite and plenty of power and best of all...the pedal feel was gorgeous..
It's judder central and definitely felt overwhelmed!
Hopefully they clear up a touch, I was looking to replace the drums on the rear in the future with discs, but may have to prioritize that!
Few photos.. still plenty little bits to sort..
I've done a few miles round locally to give it a bit of a gentle run in...
Obviously got caught out by loose hoses and popping intercooler hoses but no fundamental disasters.
It's supposedly a remap upto around 290hp and 600nm... With the 8hp constantly jumping around it actually felt quite weak as it was always flapping around. However, put in manual mode and in 5th... Geeeeeee wizz.. definitely feels the power and much much more muscular than the old M52.
Problem, I always loved the brakes with the M52, they seemed to have lots of bite and plenty of power and best of all...the pedal feel was gorgeous..
It's judder central and definitely felt overwhelmed!
Hopefully they clear up a touch, I was looking to replace the drums on the rear in the future with discs, but may have to prioritize that!
Few photos.. still plenty little bits to sort..
Howitzer said:
That’s a really nice conversion, I didn’t realise anyone had done the 8hp yet, dropping the revs right down when at a cruise would be a really nice bonus on a cruise.
That's the plan, haven't got it upto 60/70 yet but would hope it's very refreshing and calm at that sort of speed.Plus, with the premade loom available the 8hp was actually an easier option for me than a 6hp..
CornedBeef said:
Great thread OP, very interesting to see. Has it got the modern 8HP shifter in the cabin? Must look funny in between the old defender interior.
Yup, it has an F series shifter internally, I'm building up a big centre console unit, to get the shifter to a nice ergnomic position (as positioned) which also does the sequenquial shifting in manual mode etc.. Its all very much WIP, but will wrap / cover in leatherette or something similar. Other benifit of chunky centre console is it allows space for lots of insulation around centre console which is where most of the noise comes in, in my experience![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/7xj4qmaf.jpg[/img]|https://thumbsnap.com/7xj4qmaf[/url] <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/yeUr7K3E" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/yeUr7K3E.jpg)
Theres also a little display unit I've got which shows gear, trans temp, drive mode which tbh, is very handy with the 8 gears jumping around. Again, display WIP
Problem time:
Its decided to bork itself the evening before MOT, seem to have lost communication with gearbox, and my little display thing has gone down. Either their both fried somehow, or there is some weirdness going on that I can't understand as all the wiring appears correct so I have no idea at the moment. The CANtcu wont connect to laptop either which is worrying as its always jumped straight onto it.
Anyway, I'm sure its something simple, and minor but better to find this niggle on the drive than miles from home![url]
Ok, well it wasn't something simple.
Not entirely sure what had happened, but the CANTCU unit died, as did my littel display, there was a notable burning smell from the display, and when opened up it had alot of melting solder etc (not good obviously).
Either way, replacements fitted and back in the game.
MOT passed this morning so can finally start getting some miles on this.
Couple of issues - No1, the glass fuses which remain in the centre are causing carange, and will need to be repalced for a modern blade fuse arangmewnt. This has been on my list for ages, but never got round to it.
Cooling. Its 'just' on a basic TD5 rad, but it seems to be borderline on cooling. It could be the viscous as dead (came with M57 engine) but even when travelling the air atleast isnt enough to cool. I'll investiage if this is actually locking up (i've never heard it lock) as this could be an easy win.
There doesn't seem to be any medium ground on aftermarket rads for defenders, its either cheap, or £££. TBH, the defender rad is considerably smaller than the old X5 Rad, but I would have thought the 3 or 5 series rad can't be equally as massive..
Not entirely sure what had happened, but the CANTCU unit died, as did my littel display, there was a notable burning smell from the display, and when opened up it had alot of melting solder etc (not good obviously).
Either way, replacements fitted and back in the game.
MOT passed this morning so can finally start getting some miles on this.
Couple of issues - No1, the glass fuses which remain in the centre are causing carange, and will need to be repalced for a modern blade fuse arangmewnt. This has been on my list for ages, but never got round to it.
Cooling. Its 'just' on a basic TD5 rad, but it seems to be borderline on cooling. It could be the viscous as dead (came with M57 engine) but even when travelling the air atleast isnt enough to cool. I'll investiage if this is actually locking up (i've never heard it lock) as this could be an easy win.
There doesn't seem to be any medium ground on aftermarket rads for defenders, its either cheap, or £££. TBH, the defender rad is considerably smaller than the old X5 Rad, but I would have thought the 3 or 5 series rad can't be equally as massive..
AnduHowman said:
Great work!
What made you go for the 8 speed rather than the 6? I have been doing some reading to put an M57 and 6HP from my old X5 into my 200tdi 90 and the 6HP seems to be almost off the shelf now?
How did you manage the positioning of the mounts for everything?
Thanks and good luck with it!
Age, and complexity. As in the 8 speed was simpler to be put in than the 6 speed at the time (it now looks like off the shelf looms are available), plus the 6 speed that came with the engine is also circa 20years old.What made you go for the 8 speed rather than the 6? I have been doing some reading to put an M57 and 6HP from my old X5 into my 200tdi 90 and the 6HP seems to be almost off the shelf now?
How did you manage the positioning of the mounts for everything?
Thanks and good luck with it!
I'm focusing on temps at the moment when driving, so haven't really battered it flat out but as noted before, it is changing quite alot but I guess its trying to keep in the peak RPM efficiency point... But it is very, very smooth to be fair to it!
Putting a few miles on it, 1 thing is for certain it needs a lower geared transfer box. It's got a 1.2 that I wanted to start with and hope it was acceptable, it's ok... But a 1.0 would be a lot better and would really make the most of the 8 speed box
Cooling... Put a new viscous unit on, and it's still warmer than I'd like going up small hills. Supposedly 100c is running temp in this era diesel, but seems to me a small window of everythings ok, to crap, stop.. id guess 115c would be too much?
Cooling... Put a new viscous unit on, and it's still warmer than I'd like going up small hills. Supposedly 100c is running temp in this era diesel, but seems to me a small window of everythings ok, to crap, stop.. id guess 115c would be too much?
Big day... ordered a custom made big, big radiator.
Think should be something like 100mm thick, with roughly the same dims of the TD5 unit.
BHM compak radiators in Kenilworth are making it, and seem to have a really good reputation and was pleasnetly old school when I had a look around.
This should hopefully overcome the cooling issues.
I'm also going to go ahead with a 1.003 transfer box, fitted with an Ashcroft ATB and other strengthening goodies.
Found quite a bit of play in the transfer box, and also didn't 'sound' too good when just rotating the props sat on the drive.
Hopefully both items will be here in the next few weeks, so can get them fitted up well before summer vacations.
Been booting a bit more off roundabouts recently as got a bit more confident with it... 3rd gear wheelslip appears easily possible, so the ATB definetly seems a good idea.
Had a bit of clear out, and air out of all the camping bits at the weekend as it was actually nice, and properly found the love for the stupid money pit again!
Think should be something like 100mm thick, with roughly the same dims of the TD5 unit.
BHM compak radiators in Kenilworth are making it, and seem to have a really good reputation and was pleasnetly old school when I had a look around.
This should hopefully overcome the cooling issues.
I'm also going to go ahead with a 1.003 transfer box, fitted with an Ashcroft ATB and other strengthening goodies.
Found quite a bit of play in the transfer box, and also didn't 'sound' too good when just rotating the props sat on the drive.
Hopefully both items will be here in the next few weeks, so can get them fitted up well before summer vacations.
Been booting a bit more off roundabouts recently as got a bit more confident with it... 3rd gear wheelslip appears easily possible, so the ATB definetly seems a good idea.
Had a bit of clear out, and air out of all the camping bits at the weekend as it was actually nice, and properly found the love for the stupid money pit again!
I'd fitted a new viscous unit and still wasn't confident it was locking up, whether it was some issue with the shroud, or something else not sure but certainally wasn't howling away like it should have been.
So dug the old electric fans out of the shed that were fitted with the M52, think they are off a Citreon, or Peugot by the do shift a hell of alot of air.
In terms of activating the fans, i've found out that I can use the CANtcu controller to do this, which is brilliant!
Can program an exact temp for the fans to come on, including a 10 second delay or so incase the temp is bouncing up and down around the figure etc..
Also, can add in the second fan at a higher temp for additional cooling. Need to nail it all down, but an added benefit that I didn't realise CANtcu would allow. Furthermore, I can also control the reversing light via CANtcu aswell... Brillaint!
Back to the front of the car, fitting a large chunky thick radiator and the electric fans would have been pretty damn tight... Thankfully Land Rover had this covered with the 'Air con grill' that pushes the front section out slightly futher. This should be plenty of space to fit it all in, and got a couple of headlight surrounds and new grill with the purchase. The new panel is black, but tbh, its near enough...
Hopefully transferbox and new radiator is ready to rock next week..
So dug the old electric fans out of the shed that were fitted with the M52, think they are off a Citreon, or Peugot by the do shift a hell of alot of air.
In terms of activating the fans, i've found out that I can use the CANtcu controller to do this, which is brilliant!
Can program an exact temp for the fans to come on, including a 10 second delay or so incase the temp is bouncing up and down around the figure etc..
Also, can add in the second fan at a higher temp for additional cooling. Need to nail it all down, but an added benefit that I didn't realise CANtcu would allow. Furthermore, I can also control the reversing light via CANtcu aswell... Brillaint!
Back to the front of the car, fitting a large chunky thick radiator and the electric fans would have been pretty damn tight... Thankfully Land Rover had this covered with the 'Air con grill' that pushes the front section out slightly futher. This should be plenty of space to fit it all in, and got a couple of headlight surrounds and new grill with the purchase. The new panel is black, but tbh, its near enough...
Hopefully transferbox and new radiator is ready to rock next week..
New transfer box is fitted.
A 1.003 final ratio, Ashcroft ATB and other hardned goodies should make it pretty resiliant to the M57, though potentially could just push something else to break. Also put a larger sump on it to give it a bit of extra cooling.
Regarding cooling, new radiator has been collected, its about 3 times the thickness of the standard TD5 rad which a much better core, this should hopefully do the job. Was built by B H M Compak Radiators in Kenilworth who seem to get a very good reputation, so I have a decent amount of faith in it.
Its a pretty crappy photo, but I've made a basic frame off the slam panel support to carry the gearbox oil cooler
Now just to squeeze it all back in, and get some miles on it swifto!
Whilst its been off the road for a few weeks I've finally changed the steering shaft from the 200TDI one to a later TD5 one - There was play on the splines that I could never get rid of, so hopefully this feel pretty much brand new on the steering
Noticing oil in the intercooler and intercooler pipework, breif reading suggests some maybe normal though slightly concerning..
A 1.003 final ratio, Ashcroft ATB and other hardned goodies should make it pretty resiliant to the M57, though potentially could just push something else to break. Also put a larger sump on it to give it a bit of extra cooling.
Regarding cooling, new radiator has been collected, its about 3 times the thickness of the standard TD5 rad which a much better core, this should hopefully do the job. Was built by B H M Compak Radiators in Kenilworth who seem to get a very good reputation, so I have a decent amount of faith in it.
Its a pretty crappy photo, but I've made a basic frame off the slam panel support to carry the gearbox oil cooler
Now just to squeeze it all back in, and get some miles on it swifto!
Whilst its been off the road for a few weeks I've finally changed the steering shaft from the 200TDI one to a later TD5 one - There was play on the splines that I could never get rid of, so hopefully this feel pretty much brand new on the steering
Noticing oil in the intercooler and intercooler pipework, breif reading suggests some maybe normal though slightly concerning..
Jhonno said:
TADTS
Every turbo diesel I've taken turbo pipework off has had this to some extent..
I figured it would be, tbh I haven't thought toooo much about it but the only spot it could be coming from is the turbo seals?Every turbo diesel I've taken turbo pipework off has had this to some extent..
Haven't noticed ploooms of smoke when booting it, but 'some' on startup from cold start but its got no CAT, no DPF so its expected to be slightly "claggy" on startup imo...
Edit: Had another look at the pipes and intercooler, I 'thought' that one side of the intercooler was almost black / covered in oil after a few hundred miles, but upon another look its spotless (Must have been a trick of the light!)...
Edited by tommobot on Thursday 6th June 11:11
All back together, much tighter than I had hoped but it all fits (ooo err)
Contemplating cutting a strip along the top of the bonnet and fitting mesh behind to allow for airflow into the top of the radiator, as its above the slam panel.
The bonnet is already bastardised, so no problem cutting it up, just don't want it to look crap - Thoughts welcome!
Contemplating cutting a strip along the top of the bonnet and fitting mesh behind to allow for airflow into the top of the radiator, as its above the slam panel.
The bonnet is already bastardised, so no problem cutting it up, just don't want it to look crap - Thoughts welcome!
Initial impressions with the 1.0 LT230 - Friggin perfect!
It completely changes the car with the 8HP gearbox, and is almost perfectly matched together.
With the 1.2 box, first gear was pointless and I pretty much always started in second.
Its now perfectly shifting through the gears, and barely gets into 8th until 65 / 70 at best... Which is essentially making it an overdrive to my mind and utlizing all of the 8 gears to the max.
With the ATB its also tightened everything up a treat.
Cooling; seems better, but still appears to be hotter than I would prefer.
Will get a little video of it in the next few days..
It completely changes the car with the 8HP gearbox, and is almost perfectly matched together.
With the 1.2 box, first gear was pointless and I pretty much always started in second.
Its now perfectly shifting through the gears, and barely gets into 8th until 65 / 70 at best... Which is essentially making it an overdrive to my mind and utlizing all of the 8 gears to the max.
With the ATB its also tightened everything up a treat.
Cooling; seems better, but still appears to be hotter than I would prefer.
Will get a little video of it in the next few days..
Couple more hundred miles covered, and really do seem to be gelling with engine and gearbox setup.
Took it up to Yorkshire to LRbits who fitted the lifting roof as the solar panel had failed and was being replaced under warranty, not at all a problem with LRbits and cannot fault their service at all and the certainally do go the extra mile!
Pretty much a 320 mile round trip and didn't miss a beat and few little bits learnt regarding the cooling.
Trundling along at 70 in 8th its sitting a about 1500rpm, although its got acres of torque to pull itself up all the hills in 8th, the temps do start to rise. I know its pretty obvious in all honesty, but knocking it down into 6th and the temperature flys down so good to see the appears to be plenty of contigency with the rad.
Also, more impressively seems to be roughly 30mpg, potentially more which is what I was aiming for.
Couple of obligitory photos below, a quick video of a little scoot upto speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alj2DDoZI0I
Next up, fixing a couple of small fluid leaks that I haven't quite pinpointed..
Took it up to Yorkshire to LRbits who fitted the lifting roof as the solar panel had failed and was being replaced under warranty, not at all a problem with LRbits and cannot fault their service at all and the certainally do go the extra mile!
Pretty much a 320 mile round trip and didn't miss a beat and few little bits learnt regarding the cooling.
Trundling along at 70 in 8th its sitting a about 1500rpm, although its got acres of torque to pull itself up all the hills in 8th, the temps do start to rise. I know its pretty obvious in all honesty, but knocking it down into 6th and the temperature flys down so good to see the appears to be plenty of contigency with the rad.
Also, more impressively seems to be roughly 30mpg, potentially more which is what I was aiming for.
Couple of obligitory photos below, a quick video of a little scoot upto speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alj2DDoZI0I
Next up, fixing a couple of small fluid leaks that I haven't quite pinpointed..
Jhonno said:
What temp is it actually running at? Or getting hot too? These are supposed to run at 94/95 degrees..
Its pretty much running at about 94c under minimal load, with 98c-102c at motorway speeds.Depending on where you read, this is maybe a touch tooo high but the temps were atleast 10c higher with the previous rad so very happy with the rad / electric fan setup!
Tbh, it could be airflow struggling to get out..
It's got an open vent on the side, and one a top of the wing.
Luckily, one of the twin fans upfront failed on a run up the M6 over the weekend... unplugged and left the higher temp one active. Kept a close eye on temps, and tbh it behaved exactly the same without the fan, so can assume the low speed fan was cutting in wayyy to low, and wasn't even doing anything anyway.
Will adjust the fan cut in temps via CANtcu (absolute godsend!)
I've found a chap on eBay selling what appears to be a twin spal arrangement that is OEM fitment on evora's for a very good price which appears around same size as TD5 rad.
Should be here this week, and get fitted and tested before heading before Italy
It's got an open vent on the side, and one a top of the wing.
Luckily, one of the twin fans upfront failed on a run up the M6 over the weekend... unplugged and left the higher temp one active. Kept a close eye on temps, and tbh it behaved exactly the same without the fan, so can assume the low speed fan was cutting in wayyy to low, and wasn't even doing anything anyway.
Will adjust the fan cut in temps via CANtcu (absolute godsend!)
I've found a chap on eBay selling what appears to be a twin spal arrangement that is OEM fitment on evora's for a very good price which appears around same size as TD5 rad.
Should be here this week, and get fitted and tested before heading before Italy
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