Fisher Fury, impuse buy!
Discussion
Zephyr Speedshop said:
I do need to pull the gearbox as something sounds very loud with the clutch engaged at idle. But goes away when depressed. I'm wondering what the setup looks like and if it has a pilot bearing ? As I doubt the lancia crank would have but the longitudinal 131 box probably needs one?
As the owner of many old Fiats, most of them do this and will continue doing it for many years with no ill effects, thrust bearing probably? I wouldn't be worried about it
Didge3 said:
Zephyr Speedshop said:
I do need to pull the gearbox as something sounds very loud with the clutch engaged at idle. But goes away when depressed. I'm wondering what the setup looks like and if it has a pilot bearing ? As I doubt the lancia crank would have but the longitudinal 131 box probably needs one?
As the owner of many old Fiats, most of them do this and will continue doing it for many years with no ill effects, thrust bearing probably? I wouldn't be worried about it
Still can't decide on cams, guess it comes down to what piper say works in my head. As there cams are for the normal flow direction. I think the cams are interchangeable between my head and earlier ones. As the profiles are the same for each cam. The pulleys are the difference. But really I'll need vernier pulleys which I can't find for the reverse flow head.
The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
Zephyr Speedshop said:
Still can't decide on cams, guess it comes down to what piper say works in my head. As there cams are for the normal flow direction. I think the cams are interchangeable between my head and earlier ones. As the profiles are the same for each cam. The pulleys are the difference. But really I'll need vernier pulleys which I can't find for the reverse flow head.
The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
To get the best out of a aggressive cam you'll probably wanna up the compression too, any plans to do that? The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
Not to spam your thread too much...
The FIAT:
The engine on it's previous carbs (it's now running downdraft carbs for better air intake).
I just checked oil specs : the Penrite HPR50 we use in the FIAT is a 40-70 weight pure mineral oil.
Probably extreme for the UK, but when you're racing up a mountain in 40+ C, engine temps get pretty high.
The FIAT:
The engine on it's previous carbs (it's now running downdraft carbs for better air intake).
I just checked oil specs : the Penrite HPR50 we use in the FIAT is a 40-70 weight pure mineral oil.
Probably extreme for the UK, but when you're racing up a mountain in 40+ C, engine temps get pretty high.
Yazza54 said:
Zephyr Speedshop said:
Still can't decide on cams, guess it comes down to what piper say works in my head. As there cams are for the normal flow direction. I think the cams are interchangeable between my head and earlier ones. As the profiles are the same for each cam. The pulleys are the difference. But really I'll need vernier pulleys which I can't find for the reverse flow head.
The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
To get the best out of a aggressive cam you'll probably wanna up the compression too, any plans to do that? The other factor is the cam specs.
My current cam is 10.03mm lift and 276 duration.
Ultimate roast 10.40 and 288
Rally 11.18 and 290. ( Have to buy new no regrind option)
I'm not sure how much gain there will be with ultimate road ? And rally I think will still be ok on the road.
My logic, is I have to go in and do the valves springs to make it safe/ capable over 7k. So may as well stab a cam in it while it's apart.
My thoughts at the moment are.
Valve springs
Cam (ultimate road).
Vernier Pulleys
Electric ignition
Omex 600
And let it rev until it rolls over or hits 8k, ? (Still not convinced on that
)Or
Valve springs
Standard cam
ITBS
Vernier Pulleys (maybe)
Electric ignition
Omex 600.
Depending on what happens where it all goes, I guess the future would then be either. 2.0 bottomend or high comp pistons and ported head.
To put my cams into perspective. Pipers fast road cam is 9.80mm and 280 duration. I'm not smart enough to know of that's better than my standard 10.03 and 276. My guess is there would be very little if anything in it. .I can see the ultimate road cam having some gains. But not a huge amount.
I should add that I think the biggest gains will be moving to the standalone. And electric ignition. .so it can all be mapped. .and let it rev
Edited by Zephyr Speedshop on Thursday 19th October 09:35
AW111 said:
Not to spam your thread too much...
The FIAT:
The engine on it's previous carbs (it's now running downdraft carbs for better air intake).
I just checked oil specs : the Penrite HPR50 we use in the FIAT is a 40-70 weight pure mineral oil.
Probably extreme for the UK, but when you're racing up a mountain in 40+ C, engine temps get pretty high.
Spam away I love to see cars that get used! The FIAT:
The engine on it's previous carbs (it's now running downdraft carbs for better air intake).
I just checked oil specs : the Penrite HPR50 we use in the FIAT is a 40-70 weight pure mineral oil.
Probably extreme for the UK, but when you're racing up a mountain in 40+ C, engine temps get pretty high.
A finger in the air from distant memories of Lotus & Fiat Twinks. Anything more than around 260 will need decent exhaust & a choke per cylinder.
Once the lift goes up then pistons need machining for clearance. And from experience don't just accept what the cam manufacturers tell you. The head could have been skimmed in the past, after market valves etc. This normally gets expensive with dummy builds, mucking around with plasticine etc.
To take advantage of more lift & certainly more overlap you'll need head work. Also as the overlap increases your dynamic compression ratio reduces so yes you'll need higher compression. Once you do that things get tighter & your engine build needs to be 110%
Unfortunately Guy Croft has passed away as he was the guru for these. Not sure if Middle Barton do twinks they certainly do the smaller Fiats.
Interesting build here may give you a guide. https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?t...
Once the lift goes up then pistons need machining for clearance. And from experience don't just accept what the cam manufacturers tell you. The head could have been skimmed in the past, after market valves etc. This normally gets expensive with dummy builds, mucking around with plasticine etc.
To take advantage of more lift & certainly more overlap you'll need head work. Also as the overlap increases your dynamic compression ratio reduces so yes you'll need higher compression. Once you do that things get tighter & your engine build needs to be 110%
Unfortunately Guy Croft has passed away as he was the guru for these. Not sure if Middle Barton do twinks they certainly do the smaller Fiats.
Interesting build here may give you a guide. https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?t...
Im really enjoying this thread, well done and keep up the great work!
I selected Piper Ultimate Fast Road cams, Piper double springs and vernier pulleys, 123 electronic ignition, mild porting, Abarth style exhaust manifold and twin 40 IDF's. About 1.5kg relieved from the fly wheel.
The engine is super responsive and sounds fantastic. It does love to rev, torque peaks just after 6k. Roger from Classic Engine Workshop built this brilliant engine for me and can't recommend highly enough. Was involved throughout the whole process and we spent lots of time assessing various options.
I selected Piper Ultimate Fast Road cams, Piper double springs and vernier pulleys, 123 electronic ignition, mild porting, Abarth style exhaust manifold and twin 40 IDF's. About 1.5kg relieved from the fly wheel.
The engine is super responsive and sounds fantastic. It does love to rev, torque peaks just after 6k. Roger from Classic Engine Workshop built this brilliant engine for me and can't recommend highly enough. Was involved throughout the whole process and we spent lots of time assessing various options.
BS9ider said:
Im really enjoying this thread, well done and keep up the great work!
I selected Piper Ultimate Fast Road cams, Piper double springs and vernier pulleys, 123 electronic ignition, mild porting, Abarth style exhaust manifold and twin 40 IDF's. About 1.5kg relieved from the fly wheel.
The engine is super responsive and sounds fantastic. It does love to rev, torque peaks just after 6k. Roger from Classic Engine Workshop built this brilliant engine for me and can't recommend highly enough. Was involved throughout the whole process and we spent lots of time assessing various options.
That's very very nice, what capacity is it and what power is she making? I selected Piper Ultimate Fast Road cams, Piper double springs and vernier pulleys, 123 electronic ignition, mild porting, Abarth style exhaust manifold and twin 40 IDF's. About 1.5kg relieved from the fly wheel.
The engine is super responsive and sounds fantastic. It does love to rev, torque peaks just after 6k. Roger from Classic Engine Workshop built this brilliant engine for me and can't recommend highly enough. Was involved throughout the whole process and we spent lots of time assessing various options.
BS9ider said:
Thank you, 1756. Varies between 115-130 bhp depending on dyno, air temp and air filter, bonnet up or down etc. It's built with the standard 124 euro compression ratio pistons (9.8).
That's interesting as. 130 is where I'd hope to be but. Maybe not considering the work you've put in. And how lazy I'm going to be tr7v8 said:
A finger in the air from distant memories of Lotus & Fiat Twinks. Anything more than around 260 will need decent exhaust & a choke per cylinder.
Once the lift goes up then pistons need machining for clearance. And from experience don't just accept what the cam manufacturers tell you. The head could have been skimmed in the past, after market valves etc. This normally gets expensive with dummy builds, mucking around with plasticine etc.
To take advantage of more lift & certainly more overlap you'll need head work. Also as the overlap increases your dynamic compression ratio reduces so yes you'll need higher compression. Once you do that things get tighter & your engine build needs to be 110%
Unfortunately Guy Croft has passed away as he was the guru for these. Not sure if Middle Barton do twinks they certainly do the smaller Fiats.
Interesting build here may give you a guide. https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?t...
You make some valid points. I'm pretty confident the ultimate road cams will be ok. But will definitely need to make sure it clears. They could also be problematic later with high comp pistons. Once the lift goes up then pistons need machining for clearance. And from experience don't just accept what the cam manufacturers tell you. The head could have been skimmed in the past, after market valves etc. This normally gets expensive with dummy builds, mucking around with plasticine etc.
To take advantage of more lift & certainly more overlap you'll need head work. Also as the overlap increases your dynamic compression ratio reduces so yes you'll need higher compression. Once you do that things get tighter & your engine build needs to be 110%
Unfortunately Guy Croft has passed away as he was the guru for these. Not sure if Middle Barton do twinks they certainly do the smaller Fiats.
Interesting build here may give you a guide. https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?t...
I'm thinking I just go for the valvespings. And maybe itbs. See what we can do with it For now. I'm desperate to get rid of the old loom and sort the coolant hoses out it's a dogs dinner
I've realized tonight the itbs will be very close to the steering column.
Starting to think a mx5 NB2 with vvt might be easier! Especially the price of a crashed or rusty complete car. Be almost a free engine and box by the time I sold off the bits worth having And scrapped the shell. My land lord probably loses he's absolute s
t if I did that at work tho. noticed a properly weird issue today, the speedo while now loosely accurate , it still occasionally goes off on one and struggles at lower speeds?
however i noticed today its effected by the tacho. it moves with the tacho if you rev it. so tonight i had a poke around and the sensor is grounded to the chassis, so i connected that the the gauges sensor ground. and moved the gauge ground to ta separate one. and disconnected the canbus (all the gauges have it linked no idea why there isnt one) absolutely no different. even bypassed the loom to the sensor feed encase it was earthing or getting interference
i can only assume there is some sort of earthing of the tacho feed or ignition to the chassis. im going to just leave for now. and investigate more wen i re wire the engine loom
however i noticed today its effected by the tacho. it moves with the tacho if you rev it. so tonight i had a poke around and the sensor is grounded to the chassis, so i connected that the the gauges sensor ground. and moved the gauge ground to ta separate one. and disconnected the canbus (all the gauges have it linked no idea why there isnt one) absolutely no different. even bypassed the loom to the sensor feed encase it was earthing or getting interference
i can only assume there is some sort of earthing of the tacho feed or ignition to the chassis. im going to just leave for now. and investigate more wen i re wire the engine loom
Parts are starting to show up! the question is when do a start ripping it apart?
Base diy loom and Ford coil pack !
I was an absolute loser today and bagged these very cool Old lance cam covers off a chap I know who's always got old stuff.
Gave them a beating with the wire brush and some parts wash. They need blasting really but they will do for now.
They look way cooler though. Once I tidy up the wiring and hoses. Will really set it off l. Especially once I paint them and polish the logos .
Base diy loom and Ford coil pack !
I was an absolute loser today and bagged these very cool Old lance cam covers off a chap I know who's always got old stuff.
Gave them a beating with the wire brush and some parts wash. They need blasting really but they will do for now.
They look way cooler though. Once I tidy up the wiring and hoses. Will really set it off l. Especially once I paint them and polish the logos .
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