New refuge areas on smart motorways

New refuge areas on smart motorways

Author
Discussion

grumpy52

Original Poster:

5,717 posts

173 months

Monday 18th December 2023
quotequote all
New orange colour refuge areas are to be built on most smart motorways it has been announced.
Are these the refuge areas that should have been built in the original specification for the motorways ?
Despite what everyone else says about smart motorways the highways people maintain that smart motorways are safer than those with a hard shoulder.
It's also never mentioned how many breakdown/recovery operatives are injured or killed at the side of the road.
Having been on the wrong end of a medical incident on a smart section of the M25 and actually being in a refuge area the amount of vehicles and people sent to assist and the closure of two of four lanes gives a clue to how dangerous the people working on motorways think it is .
I had a fast response paramedic, a crewed ambulance, a police patrol car , a traffic officer car , a fire engine, a highways agency fend off/ incident truck .

Mr Tidy

24,327 posts

134 months

Thursday 28th December 2023
quotequote all
I'm not sure it is a good thing.

The "Smart" M3 by me has a proper refuge every 1.6 miles, but if you can't limp to one of those you're going to stop in a live lane!

I'd rather be stuck on an old-fashioned hard shoulder.

But I'm glad medical attention was good. thumbup

CloudStuff

3,848 posts

111 months

Thursday 28th December 2023
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
I'm not sure it is a good thing.

The "Smart" M3 by me has a proper refuge every 1.6 miles, but if you can't limp to one of those you're going to stop in a live lane!

I'd rather be stuck on an old-fashioned hard shoulder.

But I'm glad medical attention was good. thumbup
It remains an awful idea, and a deadly one. Lives depend on underpaid call centre staff.

FiF

45,528 posts

258 months

Thursday 28th December 2023
quotequote all
To answer the original question, yes these are the safety areas which should have been built, they were included at much more frequent intervals in the original design which was approved for roll out before the original experiment had been completed and fully reported.

That design and operating mode has since been repeatedly changed and modified to the point that confusion arises.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be modifications as things are learnt, but it seems that all the modifications have been driven by cost savings often to the detriment of safety.

Finally it really pisses people off including me when National Highways and their previous corporate identities continue to trot out their very Selective message that these are safer than normal motorways. This completely ignores their very own figures that in the case of stopped vehicle incidents all lane running smart motorways exhibit 3 times the rate of fatal or serious injury collisions than managed motorways which have variable speeds but retain a lane as a hard shoulder. It's also nearly double the rate of conventional motorways with a hard shoulder but no variable speeds.

Smint

1,984 posts

42 months

Monday 22nd January
quotequote all
Might have been an idea to rebuild lengthen and add more refuges whilst the contraflow and machinery was still in place, this refuge improvement thing was announced whilst many miles were still under construction.

Next time they recruit agents and planners a good place to find them would be Japan, where such things are rebuilt in record time.

What difference does an orange painted refuge make when there's a wall of trucks in front as you're plodding along hoping to reach the refuge with a rapidly deflating tyre or dying engine with another truck jammed up your chuff, you can't see the blasted refuge until you're almost on it...hopefully countdown signage to the refuge is part of the alterations.

Big Rat

340 posts

53 months

Monday 22nd January
quotequote all
About 1300hrs today I joined the M5 at Junction 21 at Weston-Super-Mare Travelled North towards Bristol perhaps a mile or so and saw 15 to 20 cars on the hard shoulder all had between 1 and 4 tyres fully deflated…. Guess some kind of nail/screw/bolt spillage around junction 21 ….. one can only imagine if this had occurred a few miles further North on the ‘dumb’ sorry ‘smart ‘section ….

Mr Tidy

24,327 posts

134 months

Monday 22nd January
quotequote all
That's exactly the sort of scenario that scares me sh*tless!

Ian Geary

4,732 posts

199 months

Tuesday 6th February
quotequote all
My wife's car conked out on the M23 smart section a few weeks ago.

Some fuel pressure blip made the ECU shut the engine down immediately.

I had just gone past a refuge, and didn't have the momentum to coast uphill to the next one

It was not a pleasant feeling tbh. Traffic was light and it was 30 mins before dusk, but the amount of cars only swerving round until within 3 or 4 car lengths was worrying.

Luckily I stopped just after the highways depot before the Gatwick turn, and they had 3 trucks out with 5 minutes to fend off traffic.

But that was a long 5 minutes.


I can't conceive how anyone would think smart motorways aren't way more dangerous than a dedicated hard shoulder.

But I also appreciate the sheer cost of buying and building land to widen the motorways (especially bridges and over passes) which simply wasn't palatable to voters during the austerity years.

Working "smarter" not harder with the existing land was no doubt tempting to the accountants working for Highways England (or whatever they're called this week)

Ian Geary

4,732 posts

199 months

Tuesday 20th February
quotequote all
Hot tip: avoid M23 south bound. All traffic is currently held whilst my bike is recovered.

Cut out just as I passed a refuge, and I couldn't push it 1 mile uphill to the next one


Luckily I could get to the barrier (through all the crap) so dozy vehicles didn't hit me.

Took about 8 mins for a warning to go up on the signs - after I called 999.

grumpy52

Original Poster:

5,717 posts

173 months

Tuesday 20th February
quotequote all
With modern surveillance software one would think that a warning could be programmed into the camera system to warn the control room of something out of the ordinary.
Oh silly me that would require our government to invest in a computer system that actually works.

anyoldcardave

768 posts

74 months

Monday 25th March
quotequote all
The most dangerous thing about the is foreign trucks using them for Tacho breaks, then dragging 44 tonnes into a live lane, kin idiots.


anyoldcardave

768 posts

74 months

Monday 25th March
quotequote all
The most dangerous thing about the is foreign trucks using them for Tacho breaks, then dragging 44 tonnes into a live lane, kin idiots.


markiii

3,843 posts

201 months

Monday 25th March
quotequote all
Maybe they could link them all together, this new long linked refuge area could be given a snappy name, like........ Hard Shoulder

Altitude

68 posts

9 months

Wednesday 27th March
quotequote all
To answer a few of the points here. They are orange to try and make it more obvious that they are for emrgencies, which should hopefully reduce the number of people using them for tacho breaks, a nap or the like.

There is automated technology in place to alert the control rooms, it also sets some basic warning signs before it's confirmed by a human.

Ultimately, smart motorways are what happens when a government tells the highways to increase the number of lanes, but won't give them money to actually build more lanes.

grumpy52

Original Poster:

5,717 posts

173 months

Wednesday 27th March
quotequote all
Government computer technology?
If it works it will be the first government system that does within 3 years of installation.

Greenbot35

190 posts

100 months

Saturday 30th March
quotequote all
I had a blowout on a smart motorway, I can honestly say its the scariest thing to happen in 20 years of driving. You have a split second to react the other 4 lanes have no idea whats wrong or how to react. I'm surprised my van wasn't hit as it seemed every other car left it until 20 meters before swerving round it.