New Autobahn better than HS2

[Jumpingjackflash]

I travelled from Falkirk to Swindon yesterday and returned today. The motorway was shocking. From Tebay to Swindon I must have averaged 50mph. Same with return journey. Road works all the way and the sections without road works the congestion was terrible. I was thinking that the government would be better building a new section of motorway or autobahn rather than waste money of HS2 that only reduces traveling time by thirty minutes. A new autobahn in a 150mph car you could do Edinburgh to London 3 hours lol.

[Truckosaurus]

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

[Krikkit]

Truckosaurus said:

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

But they've never marketed it as that, which is a huge mistake

[vaud]

Truckosaurus said:

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

Also it is lower CO2 impact, and oddly you can work on a train for many jobs, so it's also productive time.

(I use East Coast and Eurotunnel in preference to flying or driving)

[alscar]

In 18 years time or whenever it is actually open I imagine it will be for goods trains only.
I’ve no idea what a motorway costs per mile to build.
You can already travel by train to Birmingham and work.

[Tlandcruiser]

Krikkit said:

But they've never marketed it as that, which is a huge mistake

Yes they did and do market it as such, it was the media that ran away with the benefit being faster journey times.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

I dunno what kind of work you do but I can’t do mine (office based) on a train. Too loud, uncomfortablem, busy, cramped. You get 5 minutes into a thought and then something distracts you and it’s all lost/gone.

[MissChief]

Krikkit said:

Truckosaurus said:

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

But they've never marketed it as that, which is a huge mistake

All trains are supposed to take cars off the roads but when even a shortish journey is more than even a full tank of fuel for most they’ll drive instead. Selling off public transport, and indeed all public utilities was one of the most egregious decisions Thatcher ever made, at least in long term impact.

[alscar]

Tlandcruiser said:

Yes they did and do market it as such, it was the media that ran away with the benefit being faster journey times.

The whole exercise is a huge mistake.
Given its early termination not now being at Euston , overall journey times will be much longer than originally stated.
The aftermath of Covid and new wfh regimes have destroyed any chance that the passenger numbers could ever work.
It’s not even going to be HS rail as that’s too expensive apparently.
Whatever the cost ends up being ( there appears little or no control on budgets ) appears of little or no concern.

[911hope]

Tlandcruiser said:

Yes they did and do market it as such, it was the media that ran away with the benefit being faster journey times.

Branded as high speed 2.

Anything else they say is not heard.

[Trif]

And then people will move further away from where they work and socialise, more people will take up jobs further away from where they currently live and work and more people will drive. How long do you think that nice new empty motorway will stay empty for? How much do you think it will cost to build, including the cost of displacing people along the route? How many who aren't displaced will happily accept the constant noise of 150mph cars? The question should be, how can we get the monotonous journeys away from cars, leaving the roads available for the exception journeys.

[Fusion777]

The M6 does get rammed, but at least going north to south you've got the option of the M1/A1 plus a few different variants- A66, M42, M69, A43/A34, A46, M40, M5 etc.

East to west links seem worse in the UK.

[768]

alscar said:

In 18 years time or whenever it is actually open I imagine it will be for goods trains only.
I’ve no idea what a motorway costs per mile to build.
You can already travel by train to Birmingham and work.

Quick Google suggests your normal motorway is roughly 1/10th of the HS2 cost per mile, maybe a bit less, maybe a lot more if you start raising it up or digging down. So for the cost of HS2 you could have a ballpark 50% more motorway capacity across Britain. Which sounds extraordinary, so maybe my numbers are off, a lot.

[alscar]

768 said:

Quick Google suggests your normal motorway is roughly 1/10th of the HS2 cost per mile, maybe a bit less, maybe a lot more if you start raising it up or digging down. So for the cost of HS2 you could have a ballpark 50% more motorway capacity across Britain. Which sounds extraordinary, so maybe my numbers are off, a lot.

I’ve no idea of whether a motorway would need more width than HS2 or not - I suspect more - so of course you’d also have to factor in even more disruption to houses along the way and costs of compensation.
I’m not 100% convinced HS2 will still happen but it will make a lovely cycle path if it doesn’t.

[FMOB]

Krikkit said:

Truckosaurus said:

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

But they've never marketed it as that, which is a huge mistake

Trouble will be that everyone sitting in their vehicle stuck in the traffic jam will be thinking if everyone else just used the bloomin train my journey would great.

[stuthemong]

vaud said:

Truckosaurus said:

HS2 isn't about making the journey quicker, it is adding capacity so more trains can run - therefore reducing traffic on the roads. (In theory).

Also it is lower CO2 impact, and oddly you can work on a train for many jobs, so it's also productive time.

(I use East Coast and Eurotunnel in preference to flying or driving)

I truly expect that by the time hs2 is up and running well have self-driving e-cars that can automatically form close formation driving road trains, largely negating any benefit of the train line….

[911hope]

Fusion777 said:

The M6 does get rammed, but at least going north to south you've got the option of the M1/A1 plus a few different variants- A66, M42, M69, A43/A34, A46, M40, M5 etc.

East to west links seem worse in the UK.

And much worse for rail east west.

Noteworthy that only large infrastructure projects that happen are London-centric.

[vaud]

stuthe said:

I truly expect that by the time hs2 is up and running well have self-driving e-cars that can automatically form close formation driving road trains, largely negating any benefit of the train line….

Possibly, but I still like to be served some nice food as well. Plus trains will always be more efficient to deliver you into a city center. I'm pro cars... but sometimes train is a better option.