Who is lying - Highways England, or RAC ?

Who is lying - Highways England, or RAC ?

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Jon39

Original Poster:

13,375 posts

150 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all


HIGHWAYS ENGLAND

Highways England has consistently maintained that smart motorways are "as safe as, or safer than, conventional motorways".

A Highways England spokesperson said: “Our key objective has always been that any stretch of road that is converted to a smart motorway, is at least as safe as it was before conversion, and in terms of fatality rates,


RAC

Explained: how the RAC deals with smart motorway breakdowns.

Drivers who break down in a live running lane of a smart motorway, the RAC can only attend once Highways England has made the scene as safe as possible through the closure of lanes with the red X signs and the attendance of Highways England Traffic Officers or police officers, to provide protection for both our patrols and customers.

..........................


Two opposing opinions.
They cannot both be correct.


Dingu

4,363 posts

37 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
They can both be correct though surely as they are using different measurement?

Highways appear to be using fatality rate as a measure whereas the RAC are making their own determination that it isn’t safe. Presumably based upon not wanting to risk injury or a collision to their employees as well as not wanting worse.

Evanivitch

22,075 posts

129 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Dingu said:
They can both be correct though surely as they are using different measurement?

Highways appear to be using fatality rate as a measure whereas the RAC are making their own determination that it isn’t safe. Presumably based upon not wanting to risk injury or a collision to their employees as well as not wanting worse.
This.

The question is, what does a HE or police car offer in protection that a RAC van doesn't? Do they just leave their vehicle unoccupied as a crash barrier? Do they have more lights?

jfdi

1,140 posts

182 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
If the RAC attended smart motorway breakdowns the same as they would for a hard shoulder breakdown then the smart motorway fatality rate would increase thus proving Highways England wrong.
Changing a tyre on a very wide hard shoulder with most of the car in the grass was terrifying with HGVs roaring past. I certainly wouldn't want to be doing it on "closed lane". Have you seen how much attention the average person pays when driving?

Jon39

Original Poster:

13,375 posts

150 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all

Dingu said:
They can both be correct though surely, as they are using different measurement?

Highways appear to be using fatality rate as a measure whereas the RAC are making their own determination that it isn’t safe. Presumably based upon not wanting to risk injury or a collision to their employees as well as not wanting worse.

The question though should be overall safety, not splitting the different consequential outcomes of crashes.

You appear to be suggesting, that being dead is no more likely on a smart motorway, but life changing injuries can be ignored
Have you tried living with almost total paralysis ?

Perhaps you might have been reassured by the highways authority comment, where they state every centimetre of a smart motorway is continually being closely monitored. That supposedly enables them to instantly warn every following driver heading towards a vehicle that stopped a moment ago.


Except when they get bored and fool around with the cameras.











RazerSauber

2,548 posts

67 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Without knowing statistics, could it be that HE declare them less likely to have an accident, safer for road workers, safer for those who are stranded in live lanes and safer for people pulling out of the laybys due to closed lanes, whereas the RAC are looking at breakdown operatives in live lanes being in increased danger?

I suppose it would change based on what type of Smart Motorway each organisation is referring too, as well. Controlled, Dynamic and ALR will all pose various different benefits and threats.

boyse7en

7,115 posts

172 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

Dingu said:
They can both be correct though surely, as they are using different measurement?

Highways appear to be using fatality rate as a measure whereas the RAC are making their own determination that it isn’t safe. Presumably based upon not wanting to risk injury or a collision to their employees as well as not wanting worse.

The question though should be overall safety, not splitting the different consequential outcomes of crashes.

You appear to be suggesting, that being dead is no more likely on a smart motorway, but life changing injuries can be ignored
Have you tried living with almost total paralysis ?

Perhaps you might have been reassured by the highways authority comment, where they state every centimetre of a smart motorway is continually being closely monitored. That supposedly enables them to instantly warn every following driver heading towards a vehicle that stopped a moment ago.


Except when they get bored and fool around with the cameras.
It's not splitting hairs, both statements can be correct.
How you then apply weighting to those statements becomes a matter of opinion

ingenieur

4,216 posts

188 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
It's bizarre that it's even a debate.

Having nowhere to go if you can't do 70mph (for whatever reason) while everything else around you is doing 70mph is obviously extremely dangerous. Only a total idiot would try to tell you it's okay because there's a camera.

Dingu

4,363 posts

37 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

Dingu said:
They can both be correct though surely, as they are using different measurement?

Highways appear to be using fatality rate as a measure whereas the RAC are making their own determination that it isn’t safe. Presumably based upon not wanting to risk injury or a collision to their employees as well as not wanting worse.

The question though should be overall safety, not splitting the different consequential outcomes of crashes.

You appear to be suggesting, that being dead is no more likely on a smart motorway, but life changing injuries can be ignored
Have you tried living with almost total paralysis ?

Perhaps you might have been reassured by the highways authority comment, where they state every centimetre of a smart motorway is continually being closely monitored. That supposedly enables them to instantly warn every following driver heading towards a vehicle that stopped a moment ago.


Except when they get bored and fool around with the cameras.







I didn’t suggest anything, I took what was in your post and essentially stated that your conclusion that only one could be true is wrong.

If you wish to generally discuss the dangerousness of smart motorways I’m pretty sure there is an existing thread.

Collectingbrass

2,393 posts

202 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Jon39 said:


HIGHWAYS ENGLAND

Highways England has consistently maintained that smart motorways are "as safe as, or safer than, conventional motorways".

A Highways England spokesperson said: “Our key objective has always been that any stretch of road that is converted to a smart motorway, is at least as safe as it was before conversion, and in terms of fatality rates,


RAC

Explained: how the RAC deals with smart motorway breakdowns.

Drivers who break down in a live running lane of a smart motorway, the RAC can only attend once Highways England has made the scene as safe as possible through the closure of lanes with the red X signs and the attendance of Highways England Traffic Officers or police officers, to provide protection for both our patrols and customers.

..........................


Two opposing opinions.
They cannot both be correct.
They can. The HE statement will be on the basis of accident rates overall, the RAC statement is the age old standard operating procedure for vehicle recovery in *any* live lane on *any* high speed roadway - including "old" standard motorways, dual carriageways and "new" smart motorways.