Potholes seen as the biggest safety issue on Britain's roads
Discussion
"New research conducted by the UK’s leading independent road safety charity, IAM RoadSmart, has revealed that motorists still see potholes as the biggest safety issue on Britain’s roads even compared to speeding, road rage, congestion or drink and drug driving."
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/media-policy/media-en...
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/media-policy/media-en...
They're a huge danger to cyclists:- I've nearly been thrown off my bike a few times in Central London by potholes, and that's on a regular folding cycle with chunky tyres.
https://road.cc/content/news/268773-1-cyclist-week...
I can think of a number of potholes that I've been through in a car that would cause severe injury to those on two wheels.
Furthermore, as the report notes - Those swerving to avoid potholes or other surface damage / degradation, espeically on country routes can pose a hazards both to oncoming and overtaking traffic.
They often tend to be inconveniently positioned; I can think of a number of surface imperfections that lie directly on the crest of corners, perfectly placed to destabilise cars making their way around.
Considering they're entirely within control (There is no behavioural factor etc.), they'd seem like a very easy win.
https://road.cc/content/news/268773-1-cyclist-week...
I can think of a number of potholes that I've been through in a car that would cause severe injury to those on two wheels.
Furthermore, as the report notes - Those swerving to avoid potholes or other surface damage / degradation, espeically on country routes can pose a hazards both to oncoming and overtaking traffic.
They often tend to be inconveniently positioned; I can think of a number of surface imperfections that lie directly on the crest of corners, perfectly placed to destabilise cars making their way around.
Considering they're entirely within control (There is no behavioural factor etc.), they'd seem like a very easy win.
I've just received my car back after two replacement alloy wheels.
The front nearside was significantly buckled, from what in retrospect I guess may have been a collapsed drain.
I would applaud more investment in upkeep and maintenance of the existing roads, as opposed to 'safety' equipment.
The front nearside was significantly buckled, from what in retrospect I guess may have been a collapsed drain.
I would applaud more investment in upkeep and maintenance of the existing roads, as opposed to 'safety' equipment.
Hol said:
That wouldn’t have been my first choice.
I wonder what the initial and control questions were?
‘Which do you think is the more dangerous
A) Road rage
B) Speeding
C) driving over potholes during a nuclear explosion.
Potholes it is then..
Control question would have been : 'Are you a middle aged white man, with a British passport and irrational anger issues because for the last twenty years you e been told you can say those bad things to women and Pedro at work any more?' I wonder what the initial and control questions were?
‘Which do you think is the more dangerous
A) Road rage
B) Speeding
C) driving over potholes during a nuclear explosion.
Potholes it is then..
The bizarre thing about them then claiming that potholes are the biggest danger is that that is the one road issue that you can chose to almost entirely get rid of by choosing the right car and tyres. But instead they'll get a wide, annuity spec German car with rubber band tyres that isn't able to traverse a a mouse hole without attempting to set up a benefits claim to the local authority.
DonkeyApple said:
The bizarre thing about them then claiming that potholes are the biggest danger is that that is the one road issue that you can chose to almost entirely get rid of by choosing the right car and tyres.
And for those on two wheels? Everyone gets a free full suspension mountain bike with fat tyres?I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh f
k" with suspension in the softest mode.Haltamer said:
And for those on two wheels? Everyone gets a free full suspension mountain bike with fat tyres?
I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh fk" with suspension in the softest mode.
There always have been though. But we used to drive cars almost a foot narrower that meant we weren't anywhere near the gutter and also had lane space to steer around holes, plus we had high profile tyres and softer suspension that helped soften the blows. I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh f
k" with suspension in the softest mode.I still drive the same cars I was driving 30 years ago and on the same roads and find no real change and no issues. Conversely, I have modern cars that are wider, have harder suspension and rubber band tyres and have lost a couple of wheel over the years.
The long and short is that it's not all down to there being loads of potholes but also down to having wide cars that can't avoid them and aren't able to cope with them.
And ultimately, when ranked against drunk drivers, road ragers there's zero logical comparison.
Maybe the people asked were drunk road ragers blaming potholes because the foreigners had all gone home.
Haltamer said:
And for those on two wheels? Everyone gets a free full suspension mountain bike with fat tyres?
I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh fk" with suspension in the softest mode.
Still not the biggest danger whichever way you cut it. I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh f
k" with suspension in the softest mode.The thing about potholes is that, following IAM teaching, hitting them is entirely down to your own negligence. If it is big enough to damage your vehicle then it is big enough to see in time and take avoiding action. That doesn't make them dangerous at all, it is the driving that is dangerous.
It seems a really odd thing for the IAM to single out as it undermines their approach to driving, the concept that a driver can be 'advanced' and always capable of improvement.
It seems a really odd thing for the IAM to single out as it undermines their approach to driving, the concept that a driver can be 'advanced' and always capable of improvement.
agent006 said:
The thing about potholes is that, following IAM teaching, hitting them is entirely down to your own negligence. If it is big enough to damage your vehicle then it is big enough to see in time and take avoiding action
These people have never driven on wet country roads then when potholes are hidden under water ..swisstoni said:
Also, if something happens to be coming the other way at just the wrong time when you spot the pothole, there can be no avoiding them unless you prefer a head-on.
The joy of TVRs being that they are narrow enough to be able to manoeuvre within your own lane. Never found them to be a significant issue with Tivs. Especially as you're always alert to them given what's going to break if you don't avoid them. Does remind me though that I used the Griff to go and look at a house in Highgate and didn't bother with the viewing as the road surface when you left Camden council and entered Brent was so bad I knew I was never going to move there!
DonkeyApple said:
Haltamer said:
And for those on two wheels? Everyone gets a free full suspension mountain bike with fat tyres?
I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh fk" with suspension in the softest mode.
There always have been though. But we used to drive cars almost a foot narrower that meant we weren't anywhere near the gutter and also had lane space to steer around holes, plus we had high profile tyres and softer suspension that helped soften the blows. I've dropped 2" from my wheel size and there's still potholes that make you go "Oh f
k" with suspension in the softest mode.I still drive the same cars I was driving 30 years ago and on the same roads and find no real change and no issues. Conversely, I have modern cars that are wider, have harder suspension and rubber band tyres and have lost a couple of wheel over the years.
The long and short is that it's not all down to there being loads of potholes but also down to having wide cars that can't avoid them and aren't able to cope with them.
And ultimately, when ranked against drunk drivers, road ragers there's zero logical comparison.
Maybe the people asked were drunk road ragers blaming potholes because the foreigners had all gone home.
The potential incentives for the road work contractor's doing quick but less durable patch repairs could also be a factor.
Whilst I am sure drunk drivers and road rage are more serious hazards I have never encountered drunk driver to my knowledge and its rare that I see road rage but I do have to avoid potholes regularly so they would be more of a concern.
This is a typical press release with a punchy headline which is just about true if you want to put a certain slant on things.
We’ll never know what the original questions were that elicited the response.
But their point is still pretty strong. Roads continue to worsen and govts dribble out small patch up budgets.
To repair UK roads properly to ‘good’ condition would cost £11b and, coincidentally, take 11 years to achieve.
We’ll never know what the original questions were that elicited the response.
But their point is still pretty strong. Roads continue to worsen and govts dribble out small patch up budgets.
To repair UK roads properly to ‘good’ condition would cost £11b and, coincidentally, take 11 years to achieve.
I wouldn't argue that overall potholes are the biggest danger on the road. According to the annual report compiled from police assessments of accidents, driver inattention is far and away the biggest cause of accidents - even fatal ones. However, as a cyclist, I would say that potholes are easily the biggest cause of accidents to bikers. The number of occasions when cyclists in the club have fallen off has increased massively recently - and mostly it is a direct or indirect result of potholes. This has resulted in hospitalisation of a number of riders in our small club in the last year or so - including me.
In an attempt to decipher the survey data I visited the IAM Roadsmart link in OP's post.
The link presents a table with percentages and the following survey question: 'How much of a problem are potholes compared to three years ago?'
It makes no sense to report the answer to this question as a percentage, so I did a bit more digging.
2021's IAM Roadsmart press release includes this statement: 'Regionally, eight in ten (81 per cent) motorists in the South East considered potholes to be a bigger road safety issue than three years ago, compared with around six in ten in London (61 per cent) and the North East (64 per cent).'
Aha! The percentages appear to refer to the proportion of survey participants who responded saying that potholes are a bigger problem today compared with three years ago. Note to IAM RoadSmart: if you're presenting survey data in a press release, be clear about what the data refer to.
If the question was 'Are potholes a bigger road safety issue than three years ago?' then it is leading and results need to be treated with care.
If the question was 'How much of a problem are potholes compared to three years ago?' offering a balanced choice of possible responses ranging from 'Much more of a problem' to 'Much less of a problem', then the results appear legitimate.
Without seeing the questionnaire it's impossible to say for sure.
The link presents a table with percentages and the following survey question: 'How much of a problem are potholes compared to three years ago?'
It makes no sense to report the answer to this question as a percentage, so I did a bit more digging.
2021's IAM Roadsmart press release includes this statement: 'Regionally, eight in ten (81 per cent) motorists in the South East considered potholes to be a bigger road safety issue than three years ago, compared with around six in ten in London (61 per cent) and the North East (64 per cent).'
Aha! The percentages appear to refer to the proportion of survey participants who responded saying that potholes are a bigger problem today compared with three years ago. Note to IAM RoadSmart: if you're presenting survey data in a press release, be clear about what the data refer to.
If the question was 'Are potholes a bigger road safety issue than three years ago?' then it is leading and results need to be treated with care.
If the question was 'How much of a problem are potholes compared to three years ago?' offering a balanced choice of possible responses ranging from 'Much more of a problem' to 'Much less of a problem', then the results appear legitimate.
Without seeing the questionnaire it's impossible to say for sure.
I have complained numerous times about specific potholes and lack of proper repairs , especially one sorted a few weeks ago and now as bad as ever as it was not fixed properly just patched (Botched up repair ) and the reply I got was the council are aware of it and are monitoring the situation and if it gets worse they will consider repair.
I think they have a get out clause so if anyone complains or damages cvehicle if the council are aware of it the driver , rider etc cannot claim.
I won't start moaning about our local roads or I will be here all night as they are shocking .
I think they have a get out clause so if anyone complains or damages cvehicle if the council are aware of it the driver , rider etc cannot claim.
I won't start moaning about our local roads or I will be here all night as they are shocking .
I reported a series of potholes at 3 O'Clock on a roundabout after seeing a motorbike in front of me nearly become a cropper. For cars it's uncomfortable as you drop in and move sideways. For those with 2 wheels it's more treacherous, especially in the dark or the road is wet as you lose contrast. The reply was it had been logged before (on their map people had logged it at 12 O'Clock).
Potholes are not really an issue here in North Wales. When we first moved here I was quite amazed at the frequency of road repairs. Unhappily, I still had to travel down to Kent for a few years, where the country roads were quite pot-holed. As for Scotland - atrociously poor country roads! Nottingham is very bad for the square edged speed bumps, and they are my most annoying road issue.
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