Roundabout, left hand lane for right turn, follow the crowd?
Discussion
My Daughter, a reasonably new driver has this double roundabout on her commute on the way home.
roundabouts
On the 1st roundabout as taught, she goes around in the right hand lane, however everyone else uses the left hand lane. I've seen the dashcam footage and every car in the left hand lane was doing that right turn.
As the road on exit is a dual carriage way, she manages to exit ok, but has to join it on the right hand lane because of all the cars going around in the left lane.
The problem then is that she has to get into the left lane to get onto the A1(M), which is tricky because there is only a short distance to do it, the left lane is busy, the cars in it are happy to undertake, and its dark.
Would it be safer for her just to follow the crowd and go around in the left lane ?
roundabouts
On the 1st roundabout as taught, she goes around in the right hand lane, however everyone else uses the left hand lane. I've seen the dashcam footage and every car in the left hand lane was doing that right turn.
As the road on exit is a dual carriage way, she manages to exit ok, but has to join it on the right hand lane because of all the cars going around in the left lane.
The problem then is that she has to get into the left lane to get onto the A1(M), which is tricky because there is only a short distance to do it, the left lane is busy, the cars in it are happy to undertake, and its dark.
Would it be safer for her just to follow the crowd and go around in the left lane ?
I remember that roundabout from when I lived nearby anout 5 years ago. Both lanes were used but people used the left lane because of the traffic build up from the A1M to Hatfield.
The legalities of it are a bit odd but I would follow the crowd with this one, it makes for an easier, stress free life. People in this instance expect cars from the left lane.
The legalities of it are a bit odd but I would follow the crowd with this one, it makes for an easier, stress free life. People in this instance expect cars from the left lane.
I can't see any signs that normal roundabout discipline doesn't apply. I'd personally use the right hand lane as you should. In the event of a collision, your daughter being in the correct lane might make some difference. At the end of the day, she goes onto another roundabout so if she can't move over safely then just go around it and take the exit.
As far as safety goes, I can't say. It only takes someone not local to the area to use the correct lane and cause a collision with your daughter if she decided to follow the others and it all goes pear shaped.
As far as safety goes, I can't say. It only takes someone not local to the area to use the correct lane and cause a collision with your daughter if she decided to follow the others and it all goes pear shaped.
Judging by your map, yes it would probably be best to stay left and go all the way round (as recommended to cyclists, and horse riders too). As in any roundabout with two lanes into, on, and off, there may be places where traffic will attempt to cross in front of you to align themselves for a next exit (as indeed she currently needs to do). Many roundabouts have their own local customs due to traffic flows - which may also vary at different times of day, or weekend, or season.
The Highway Code scenario, is not always true to local traffic volume flow, and both the blue and green cars may in all likelihood go 270 degrees round.
She should do what is safest, and convenient for all. Just watch out for traffic cutting in front of her at the straight-ahead exit. Signal as appropriate, and be sure her car and the signal is in a position to be seen.
ETA. Looking further ahead at her exit road, there are two lanes, which become three at the traffic lights on the next roundabout. There is the opportunity to head for the centre of those three lanes and take that as the (two-lane) entry onto the A1(M). She should see if that works better.
The Highway Code scenario, is not always true to local traffic volume flow, and both the blue and green cars may in all likelihood go 270 degrees round.
She should do what is safest, and convenient for all. Just watch out for traffic cutting in front of her at the straight-ahead exit. Signal as appropriate, and be sure her car and the signal is in a position to be seen.
ETA. Looking further ahead at her exit road, there are two lanes, which become three at the traffic lights on the next roundabout. There is the opportunity to head for the centre of those three lanes and take that as the (two-lane) entry onto the A1(M). She should see if that works better.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Tuesday 12th November 14:32
I use that Rbout every day, in that direction, except I am going north up the a1 at the second one.
Approaching the first roundabout, anyone who wants to go left can use a separate left filter lane. The straight-on exit from the roundabout is the entrance to Glaxo, which is rarely used. Therefore traffic has evolved to use both lanes of Gunnelswood road to turn right towards the A1 - that's where 90% of the cars are going so it would be daft to have an enormous queue in the right hand lane and nothing in the left hand lane.
Approach rbout 1 in left hand lane, exit onto A602 in left hand lane, watch out for people filtering onto A602 from the left. The only issue is people entering
right lane of rbout 1 and exiting onto left lane of A602.
It would make a lot more sense if the council painted some big white arrows on the road on the approach.
Approaching the first roundabout, anyone who wants to go left can use a separate left filter lane. The straight-on exit from the roundabout is the entrance to Glaxo, which is rarely used. Therefore traffic has evolved to use both lanes of Gunnelswood road to turn right towards the A1 - that's where 90% of the cars are going so it would be daft to have an enormous queue in the right hand lane and nothing in the left hand lane.
Approach rbout 1 in left hand lane, exit onto A602 in left hand lane, watch out for people filtering onto A602 from the left. The only issue is people entering
right lane of rbout 1 and exiting onto left lane of A602.
It would make a lot more sense if the council painted some big white arrows on the road on the approach.
Are there lane markings which she may be missing to say that both lanes can go right? I only say this as there's one in my local area and with heavy traffic flow or unfamiliarity with the area someone could easily misread or miss the road markings altogether. Might be worth having a drive there at a time of zero traffic to understand and road markings on the floor which may otherwise be covered by traffic.
I use this roundabout on occasion and it is a bit odd. There is nothing instructing users to use both lanes for right turn, but I seem to recall you can take the right-hand lane onto the s/b A1 at roundabout 2.
I don't recall ever coming into conflict as (unusually for Stevenage) people tend to treat it with caution rather than ambling or booting it into conflict.
I don't recall ever coming into conflict as (unusually for Stevenage) people tend to treat it with caution rather than ambling or booting it into conflict.
My Daughter did have a slight conflict which is what sort of led me to bring this up.
She left the 1st roundabout with a reasonable lead on a Mercedes (about 4 car lengths), accelerated a little to increase the gap even more and then went to to move left to the left lane only to find the Mercedes had also accelerated into her blind spot, He beeped her, drew parallel with her, gave her a dirty look, and then shot off past her and also passed the exit she was aiming for leaving her shaken for the rest of the journey.
She left the 1st roundabout with a reasonable lead on a Mercedes (about 4 car lengths), accelerated a little to increase the gap even more and then went to to move left to the left lane only to find the Mercedes had also accelerated into her blind spot, He beeped her, drew parallel with her, gave her a dirty look, and then shot off past her and also passed the exit she was aiming for leaving her shaken for the rest of the journey.
I use that regularly and often take the left as the queue is shorter, if you are in the left lane the car on the right should expect you to turn with them. The tricky bit is slotting in when you have turned right as the lanes don't quite work if you are in the left lane.
A1 "widening" planned in April 2020, going to be hell at these junctions whilst this work goes on so tell her it should all slow down a lot in 6 months.
A1 "widening" planned in April 2020, going to be hell at these junctions whilst this work goes on so tell her it should all slow down a lot in 6 months.
donkmeister said:
I seem to recall you can take the right-hand lane onto the s/b A1 at roundabout 2.
Funnily enough I ended up needing to drive that way this morning and can confirm that if you end up in the right lane you need to change lane before the next r/b (ie the quoted bit is wrong)I hope your daughter finds something that works for her, the way it's used is wrong but I doubt that's going to change. As someone said above it would be better if the council made it official.
I used to find this roundabout a bit of a strange too. Straight on is for Knebworth House and the hotel only, so 99% of people will be heading for A1 North. There's also room for two cars side by side on the North bound slip. If people are driving sensibly, it usually works for both lanes. However, sometimes you'll meet an idiot who'll take offence at you for being in the "fast lane", "overtaking them" or whatever.
I used to keep left as that's what most people did. Though sometimes I used the right lane if I felt like making progress down the slip.
90% of the time, if going North, I'd avoid this round-a-bout by driving out of town past the hospital, up the B197 via Jacks Hill. Then join the A1 at JCT 9 (Baldock/Letchworth).
I used to keep left as that's what most people did. Though sometimes I used the right lane if I felt like making progress down the slip.
90% of the time, if going North, I'd avoid this round-a-bout by driving out of town past the hospital, up the B197 via Jacks Hill. Then join the A1 at JCT 9 (Baldock/Letchworth).
stevedh said:
My Daughter, a reasonably new driver has this double roundabout on her commute on the way home.
roundabouts
On the 1st roundabout as taught, she goes around in the right hand lane, however everyone else uses the left hand lane. I've seen the dashcam footage and every car in the left hand lane was doing that right turn.
As the road on exit is a dual carriage way, she manages to exit ok, but has to join it on the right hand lane because of all the cars going around in the left lane.
The problem then is that she has to get into the left lane to get onto the A1(M), which is tricky because there is only a short distance to do it, the left lane is busy, the cars in it are happy to undertake, and its dark.
Would it be safer for her just to follow the crowd and go around in the left lane ?
I use that roundabout quite often, for me if she is turning left at the A1 junction to go south down to WGC then she has a choice of two lanes as the road widens out into three and both nearside lanes offer a route left, lane one being exclusively left so there is no need to cut into that lane once past the first roundabout, I would imagine the issue she has is in heavy traffic the cars in the left hand lane filter into both lanes as it splits in two, leaving her hanging now in the 3rd lane, if that happens just go all the way round the roundabout and down the slip. roundabouts
On the 1st roundabout as taught, she goes around in the right hand lane, however everyone else uses the left hand lane. I've seen the dashcam footage and every car in the left hand lane was doing that right turn.
As the road on exit is a dual carriage way, she manages to exit ok, but has to join it on the right hand lane because of all the cars going around in the left lane.
The problem then is that she has to get into the left lane to get onto the A1(M), which is tricky because there is only a short distance to do it, the left lane is busy, the cars in it are happy to undertake, and its dark.
Would it be safer for her just to follow the crowd and go around in the left lane ?
Personally I would never use the left lane to turn right. If anything should ever happen, your daughter would have a hard job in terms of insurance, and perhaps even the law. Remember at school when lots of kids broke the rules and you thought it was ok, then the teacher walked in, everyone sat down and you were left standing?
Personally I would follow the Highway Code to turn right from the right hand lane, then make sure I got my left indicator on at the correct time (when passing the centre of the straight on exit), left it on, and didn't do anything aggressive at all - so hang back and wait to be let in. I would also write a letter to the local council to suggest some road markings.
Personally I would follow the Highway Code to turn right from the right hand lane, then make sure I got my left indicator on at the correct time (when passing the centre of the straight on exit), left it on, and didn't do anything aggressive at all - so hang back and wait to be let in. I would also write a letter to the local council to suggest some road markings.
stevedh said:
My Daughter did have a slight conflict which is what sort of led me to bring this up.
She left the 1st roundabout with a reasonable lead on a Mercedes (about 4 car lengths), accelerated a little to increase the gap even more and then went to to move left to the left lane only to find the Mercedes had also accelerated into her blind spot, He beeped her, drew parallel with her, gave her a dirty look, and then shot off past her and also passed the exit she was aiming for leaving her shaken for the rest of the journey.
She has to shrug those things off. I would have indicated and pulled left when the Merc was still visible in left mirror. (I am not sure about the ‘only to find’ bit, that sounds like being caught unaware that the Merc had moved closer)She left the 1st roundabout with a reasonable lead on a Mercedes (about 4 car lengths), accelerated a little to increase the gap even more and then went to to move left to the left lane only to find the Mercedes had also accelerated into her blind spot, He beeped her, drew parallel with her, gave her a dirty look, and then shot off past her and also passed the exit she was aiming for leaving her shaken for the rest of the journey.
Pica-Pica said:
She has to shrug those things off. I would have indicated and pulled left when the Merc was still visible in left mirror. (I am not sure about the ‘only to find’ bit, that sounds like being caught unaware that the Merc had moved closer)
She hasn't been driving long and it was dark, but she should probably have kept better track of the Merc.Checking the footage again, she has a reasonable head start on entering the roundabout, accelerates a bit in an attempt to increase her lead and is probably looking forward at this time. By the time she goes to leave on the 3rd exit and check her side mirror,the Merc had caught up with her and was already in her blind spot so she didn't see anything in her side mirror and assumed the left lane was clear.. Also she was already indicating left to leave the roundabout so her intention to change lane just after leaving the roundabout wouldn't have been clear.
Anyway valuable lesson for her on taking account of undertakers, and why she should never do it herself.
Edited by stevedh on Thursday 14th November 11:40
One of the issues is the straight on exit is to GSK and nothing else, so local through traffic at busy times knows this and also knows that they need to be in the left hand lane on exit to go down the A1 hence most people go in lane one, on a double laned double exit lane roundabout turning right from the left hand lane is going to happen and you should as a driver be aware, people are not going to queue up on the inside only to move across once they have exited as at busy times all the road gets used.
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