Monaco & overtaking.
Discussion
: oldfogeymode:
Did I miss it? Perhaps it happened when I nipped out to make a cuppa...but I can't remember seeing any overtaking today, nor any threat of an overtaking move...I'm sure someone's going to tell me I'm wrong, 'cos according to the pre-race chat this was the most exciting race of the season!
Oh yes...and how often must Martin Brundle interview 'stars' on the grid who openly admit they've never been to a GP before - does he think we're interested?
: /oldfogeymode:
>>> Edited by wolosp on Sunday 1st June 19:11
Did I miss it? Perhaps it happened when I nipped out to make a cuppa...but I can't remember seeing any overtaking today, nor any threat of an overtaking move...I'm sure someone's going to tell me I'm wrong, 'cos according to the pre-race chat this was the most exciting race of the season!
Oh yes...and how often must Martin Brundle interview 'stars' on the grid who openly admit they've never been to a GP before - does he think we're interested?
: /oldfogeymode:
>>> Edited by wolosp on Sunday 1st June 19:11
IMHO Monaco is a complete waste of time and a pointless race on the calendar. Bernie spoke about "no race being safe" in respect to Silverstone a couple of years back. Well I guess he meant all circuits except Monaco. I do not care about the spectacle of the place, the stars etc.... it's just a huge PR excercise to get the big sponsors along. Well why don't they just have a big PR day instead, drive the celebs and sponsors around instead of the race. It would be a damn sight better entertainment.
Monaco is impossible to overtake on because there are no straights long enough or sequence or corners to allow any outbraking.
It's dangerous, the pit exit is scary. You had an instance in the race where Ralph Firman (rightly) pulled over on the pit straight to allow Raikkonen through, except if a car was coming out of the pits at the same time (because the circuit is pathetically narrow) he would have hit the rear and his car would have taken off. And because the catch fencing is too low around the cicuit his car would have gone over it into the crowd.....sorry "beautiful people" who don't know a McLaren from a MacDonalds.
It was and always has been over the last 10 years "The epitome of boredom".
And yes I did watch it apart from the last few laps because the Superbikes 2nd race was about to start.
If you want to see overtaking watch them (James Toseland in race one from Gravel on 1st corner to 3rd in race) and a British 1,2,3 in race 2 Toseland taking his first win, or even MotorGP.
(I know no one reads postings over 2 lines long but I got carried away)
Monaco 
I asked Bernie if they were going to drop Monaco from the calendar, this was his response.
JonRB said: There is seldom, if ever, any overtaking at Monaco. That doesn't really matter in this special case though. I think Monaco, more than any circuit, manages to convey the awesome acceleration and cornering abilities of the cars. I wouldn't miss the Monaco GP for anything.
I am sorry but do not agree JonRB, "manages to convey the awesome acceleration and cornering abilities of the cars". This may be a prestige race but it is so boring. Cannot see how Spa is axed over this race, does not make sense. Formula 1 is meant to be the pinacle of motor racing, so that has to include overtaking, not an impression of the A3 at Hindhead.
Yes Jon, I know Monaco isn't an easy track to pass on, but isn't it a bit sad when even though the points have been amended to 'reward' second place, that Schumacher didn't give Raikkonen some hassle (who after all was in last year's car) when there was the chance to have been equal first in the championship table if he had passed him. (I think I have done my maths right)
>> Edited by wolosp on Sunday 1st June 19:39
>> Edited by wolosp on Sunday 1st June 19:39
I agree it wasn't the best race, but Monaco still holds a very special place in my heart. But that's probably because it holds memories like the titanic tussle between Senna and Mansell in 1992 to name but one.
It is a race that has so much heritage that it would be an aweful shame to lose it from the calendar.
Schuey didn't seem to be on top form today. He turned up the wick and was closing on Montoya and Raikkonen in the last few laps but it was somewhat late by then. Not sure why he chose to do so when he had little or no chance of gaining 2nd place but it certainly wasn't the actions of someone who had given up / couldn't be arsed.
It is a race that has so much heritage that it would be an aweful shame to lose it from the calendar.
Schuey didn't seem to be on top form today. He turned up the wick and was closing on Montoya and Raikkonen in the last few laps but it was somewhat late by then. Not sure why he chose to do so when he had little or no chance of gaining 2nd place but it certainly wasn't the actions of someone who had given up / couldn't be arsed.
I too would not like it to be removed from the calendar, and in my opinion there is absolutely no chance of it ever being dropped as long as it brings in the money...and the celebs - you may have detected my disdain for celebs, unlike some other GPs..perhaps even Silverstone?. But I would like to see some determined racing, like...as you have said...in the old days.
Monaco may be an anachronism but it's necessary for the commercial viability of F1, attracting sponsors like a magnet. It's also the one track where the GP and the racing are shaded by the location. You could get parachuted onto part of any other circuit, and unless you are a bit of an anorak, would be hard pressed to know where you were. Anyone with a passing interest could recognise Monaco. I rather like the fact that it's different, and the new rules worked well here I thought.
I agree with Dicky, F1 must include overtaking, or it becomes a farce. IMHO to pass somebody whilst in the pits is not what racing is about. I have to feel very sorry for Ralf, leading from pole position until first pit stops, then in 4th. It becomes a lottery as to who has a clear track during the pit 'windows'. Boring, boring, boring.
A definite boring waste of time, the one lap qualifying wasn’t as a good as it was hyped up to be drivers were generally putting in conservative laps as they didn’t want to bin the car in a banzi lap (there were a few exceptions) then the 78 lap procession interfered with only by pitstops. The circuit should be dropped and newer circuits offered in it’s place. It is there as a PR exercise and nothing more, times are a changing in F1 are they Mr Brundle? err… me thinks not
Irrespective of the poor racing, Monaco can not be dropped from the F1 calendar simply because of the enormous revenue it brings into the sport (I use the work 'sport' advisedly as it is more of a business than a sport these days).
It is THE event of year for the various sponsors who invest millions and millions of pounds in the various teams. It is an economic reality that Monoco is far too important to lose.
And anyway, as I said in a previous post, it has so much heritage and emotional value, it is so much part of F1, that it would be an qwful shame to lose it.
It is THE event of year for the various sponsors who invest millions and millions of pounds in the various teams. It is an economic reality that Monoco is far too important to lose.
And anyway, as I said in a previous post, it has so much heritage and emotional value, it is so much part of F1, that it would be an qwful shame to lose it.
If it considered to be an important contract-signing, promotional, glitsy event, keep it in the calendar by all means...but as a non championship event (like the Race of the Champions back in the 60's / 70's), I'm sure all the drivers would still turn up to talk about the great battles of the past during their after-dinner speeches.
...edited for spealling error!
>> Edited by wolosp on Monday 2nd June 09:57
...edited for spealling error!
>> Edited by wolosp on Monday 2nd June 09:57
Would the sport lose much by losing some of the sponsors? IMHO not, as it would make the playing field more level for the teams. I read somewhere that Minardi has a budget of $35M compared to Ferrari with $600M. This is hardly a level playing field, so, to me anything that reduces the disparacy in the budgets should be welcomed.
Perhaps there should be rule that no one team can have more than, say, 15-18% of the total available to all teams, the remainder to be divided up between the less wealthy teams.
Perhaps there should be rule that no one team can have more than, say, 15-18% of the total available to all teams, the remainder to be divided up between the less wealthy teams.
kevinday said: Would the sport lose much by losing some of the sponsors? IMHO not, as it would make the playing field more level for the teams. I read somewhere that Minardi has a budget of $35M compared to Ferrari with $600M. This is hardly a level playing field, so, to me anything that reduces the disparacy in the budgets should be welcomed.
Perhaps there should be rule that no one team can have more than, say, 15-18% of the total available to all teams, the remainder to be divided up between the less wealthy teams.
Nice idea but how would it be policed?
Money is important but it's more about what you do with what you've got rather than simply how much you've got - Jaguar, BAR and Toyota being prime examples. And least we not forget, Ferrari have always had "limitless" budgets available yet it took them a quarter of a century to get it right.
I'm certain that you could throw half a billion each at the poorest performing teams and it'd make hardly any difference to the grids.
kevinday said: Would the sport lose much by losing some of the sponsors? IMHO not, as it would make the playing field more level for the teams. I read somewhere that Minardi has a budget of $35M compared to Ferrari with $600M. This is hardly a level playing field, so, to me anything that reduces the disparacy in the budgets should be welcomed.
Perhaps there should be rule that no one team can have more than, say, 15-18% of the total available to all teams, the remainder to be divided up between the less wealthy teams.
Nice idea but how would it be policed?
Money is important but it's more about what you do with what you've got rather than simply how much you've got - Jaguar, BAR and Toyota being prime examples. And least we not forget, Ferrari have always had "limitless" budgets available yet it took them a quarter of a century to get it right.
I'm certain that you could throw half a billion each at the poorest performing teams and it'd make hardly any difference to the grids.
kevinday said: I agree with Dicky, F1 must include overtaking, or it becomes a farce. IMHO to pass somebody whilst in the pits is not what racing is about. I have to feel very sorry for Ralf, leading from pole position until first pit stops, then in 4th. It becomes a lottery as to who has a clear track during the pit 'windows'. Boring, boring, boring.
Agreed on all points, but Ralf might have done better had he not insisted on higher tyre pressures than Montoya (check Montoya's lap times as soon as Ralf pitted). Running off the track and stopping short of colliding with the armco probably did his race no good either.
I have made up my mind to stop watching F1 endless times. Why do I keep going back for more.
Superflid said: .......
...........
I have made up my mind to stop watching F1 endless times. Why do I keep going back for more.
Probably for the same reason I haven't. There isn't any alternative that is easily accessible (I don't/won't have sky).
Several seasons, I have not bothered with one or more races, but every time I go back.
I wish I had the time/money to go to GT/Tuscan/anything else....
May finally (try and) give up, if things don't get more interesting.
Sparks
Probably right Sparks.
I've decided to make a bigger effort this year to get to more different tracks. A bit spoilt being between Donington and Mallory, makes it too easy.
Managed to get to Silverstone on bank hol monday, well worth it if just for the noise from the Group C monsters.
Oulton Park is next on the list, just have to decide what to watch.
Just seen your thread re Pug temp gauge. I had a 306 Diesel from new, had the same thing happen within weeks (In the Scottish Highlands!!!!). Long story short - "They all do that Sir". Never did get it to play up when the dealer had it.......
Airbag warning light will probably start flashing soon, I'm on my second Pug with the same problem.
Again a "non-problem", just French electrics.
>> Edited by Superflid on Monday 2nd June 17:22
I've decided to make a bigger effort this year to get to more different tracks. A bit spoilt being between Donington and Mallory, makes it too easy.
Managed to get to Silverstone on bank hol monday, well worth it if just for the noise from the Group C monsters.
Oulton Park is next on the list, just have to decide what to watch.
Just seen your thread re Pug temp gauge. I had a 306 Diesel from new, had the same thing happen within weeks (In the Scottish Highlands!!!!). Long story short - "They all do that Sir". Never did get it to play up when the dealer had it.......
Airbag warning light will probably start flashing soon, I'm on my second Pug with the same problem.
Again a "non-problem", just French electrics.
>> Edited by Superflid on Monday 2nd June 17:22
Was sat watching the clio cup on sky tele a few days ago. We are talking nose to tail action, 3 abreast into conerns, oversteer, understeer, 3 wheeling....the lot
It made me think what is wrong with F1?
Here is my theory:
The cars are too fast.
OK, you are nose to tail into a bend and the first person out nails the power a car lenghts beofore you do. Therefore he will always be going quicker down the straight and you have to catch him in the braking zone. In formula one, a cars lenght extra acceleration is a lot and the shite electronics that control the traction out of the conrner means there is no variation in this.
I know this is a crude theory an bases alot around the theory that most cars the same but its just my 2p's worth.
Anyone got any other reasons why we dont see overtaking? Would like to hear them......
It made me think what is wrong with F1?
Here is my theory:
The cars are too fast.
OK, you are nose to tail into a bend and the first person out nails the power a car lenghts beofore you do. Therefore he will always be going quicker down the straight and you have to catch him in the braking zone. In formula one, a cars lenght extra acceleration is a lot and the shite electronics that control the traction out of the conrner means there is no variation in this.
I know this is a crude theory an bases alot around the theory that most cars the same but its just my 2p's worth.
Anyone got any other reasons why we dont see overtaking? Would like to hear them......
Robp, you are probably right, though maybe the electronics are the main culprit. Also the aerodynamic package does not help, to follow too closely means loss of downforce and an off in the middle of a corner. Reduce aerodynamic aid and cars can follow closer, thus allowing a 'slingshot' maneouver (sp?, its too early 
) down the straights.
) down the straights.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff