If you tow a race car, read this.

[pawsmcgraw]

A word of caution for all you PH's that tow your track day cars or any vehicle.I have been prosecuted by the Ministry of Transport and the police for towing an empty trailor."going with the intention of breaking the law"The plate on the trailer,a car transporter said 2500kgs and the vehicle pulling it had a 1700kgs max.Now i know not to overload the vehicle as i was only going to be collecting a bare shell(400kgs)so i thought i was ok.Not so.I now realise that most people who tow are over loaded and as a side issue,your insurance is invalid for everything in you train weight.This was all news to me and i did'nt have a leg to stand on as they had the stamped plate rivited to the trailer.Most vehicle towing weights are low for breaked trailers and i'll give you a previous example of mine.My 02 Toyota Hilux pick up will tow 1750kgs braked.My trailer weighed in over 600kgs plus big winch,and a Ford escort on the back weighing 1290kgs.Add to that my fuel in vehicle,tool boxes,spare wheels and tyres,passenger,jerry cans full and all the extra stuff on the truck i was over loaded by half a ton.
I now tow with something bigger(3.5ton towing cap)but i always go on the weigh bridge and get a ticket now to be safe.I have really investigated this since and there are so many ways to break the law its scarey.The thing the Ministry like is the distribution of weight.If you don't get the car distribution correct you can be way over the limit and you would never know(weight per axle has to be right and weight on tow bar has to be exact)
Its only since this happened to me that i've been back and forth from the weigh bridge trying different scenario's and nearly every time i am overloaded with a Hilux.Its such a precise juggling act,if an average car is only 7"further forward on the trailer i'm OL.Also some other info thats important,the tyres on a trailer must be capable of carrying the plate weight of the trailer.Car tyres will not do if your pulling more than an average car,van tyres only.No emergency cord/chain is an instant fine as is a defective trailer brake.Its an expensive minefield and a big grey area out there and i hope for their own good people check their figures before towing.

There's no law to stop you putting a new weight plate on the trailer,say 1000kgs,as long as you don't put more than that on it!

[spnracing]

Interesting stuff.

A couple of points - I don't think this is a 'grey' area - the law is quite clear and ignorance of it shouldn't be an excuse.

But saying that I would have never have thought the police or CPS would prosecute if you towed an EMPTY trailer - even if the potential weight it could carry is over the towing vehicles limit? You may have no intention to tow anything - for example if you're just moving the trailer from one place to another. Or you may always tow something very light and use a big trailer because (1) its safer and (2) you may have another bigger tow vehicle to use at other times.

For the last two seasons I've used a 2.0 Mondeo to tow my Golf - towing weight 1400KG, Golf, 800KG, trailer approximately 350-400KG. By the time I'd loaded fuel, tyres, tools, spares etc I was very close if not over the limit and I know it was a risk. My new tow car has a braked limit of 1800KG and I've now got a lighter trailer too.

Yes, moving the car forwards not only risks breaking the law. The recommended weight on the couplings/tow bar that I have is 60KG. Basically you should be able to lift the coupling WITH the car still strapped on.

[pawsmcgraw]

the law isn't clear on a couple of things.The whole company towing and the 3.5gvtw law and tachos come into consideration.Try defining what a company is in a court.Also,the words Land Rover crop up in the legal blurb which was written in the seventies and still exsists today.You can tow 4ton with a LR according to the law yet does that mean a Freelander?err no,but it does not say that.There were many details in my case that were unclear and needed detailed,legal speak to be clarified,to which i'm still not clear.Had i been in a 110,petrol LR with no rear windows or seats i would not have been done!I know what was the safer on the day.I now make a point of looking at what everyone uses at race meetings and at service stations.I think about 75% of set ups are illegal and i dare say most of the drivers don't realise.

[spoonman]

This is really scary – and I'm sure I must've broken the law countless times. Getting done for an empty trailer is ridiculous compared to towing a 1250kg Cosworth with a two-litre Mondeo and a hired trailer, which I'll admit to. It's not exactly a regular thing, mind you.

But my girlfriend often uses the same Mondeo to tow a trailer containing a bloody big horse – which must surely be over the limit, and certainly feels much less stable than towing a car.

I guess we need a new towing vehicle. So what's the best way of finding out allowable weights without getting a manual for each potential vehicle?

Out of interest, I've been looking to buy a lightweight car trailer (preferably second-hand). Can anyone recommend a dealer or website?

[360]

If you look in the back of autosport or motorsport news there are normaly a few for sale more so at this time of year.I got ours from brian james trailers near silverstone there website is www.brianjames.co.uk and last time i looked i think they had some offers on hope this helps

[Graham.J]

This is one of those times when I'm glad I own a Westfield, very interesting read though.

IIRC Brian James Trailers are really expensive, your best bet is to look in your local ads and on findit.co.uk etc etc. also try searching google as some racing websites sell them.

Graham

[filmidget]

Were you actually found guilty Paw's? (if you don't mind me asking?)

Seems odd to say the least... So if your trailer was plated at 1000kg, but your tow vehicle rated at permissible 1700kg, would that not be the same thing!?!

And surely if you had a particular load in mind, how can they *prove* that you intended to break the law by overloading!?!

Isn't that like convicting me for 'going equiped' (or whatever the phrase) for carry a crowbar in my car, even though I can prove that I require it for my work?

Worries me as I have a half share in a quite small, light trailer, that is plated higher than my tow car. Does this mean I can't even tow the thing to my mates house? (the other half-owner)

Cheers, Phil

[cotty]

"going with the intention of breaking the law"

Considering that a lot of PH members have cars capable of twice the legal speed limit could they not use the same argument about cars.

[pawsmcgraw]

Well in court they state that the plate is the deciding factor as to wether is was legal.The words "intention of breaking the law came up in my case"Im not a legal expert and the bottom line was they were determined to see me wrong.Perhaps my arrogance shot me in the foot.Yes,i did get nicked,and recieved 6 points and a 450£ fine and there was nothing else i'm not telling you!
Interesting that a horse is mentioned.My wife has horses and if you go to the weigh bridge with a big horse you will be very suprised.She has a cyldsdale and with the horse box it also puts me over the limit with the Hilux(big horse mind)
I purposly run a LandCruiser now aswell because its the only legal way i can tow what i need to.I did think about a 7.5ton truck but as i run my own business i would need to have a tacho(which i think is bullshit as its for personal use)but the advice i saught says otherwise.Its this factor of deciding if your a company/business or if it is masking the real your using it.In hindsight i think i was unlucky as it was a ministry check point for hgv's and it was empty as i approached so perhaps they were wanting something to do.Just for your info i was caught in Essex,near Saffron Walden.You cannot win against these people and god knows what would have happened if i'd had a colision!Perhaps no one would have noticed the weights if i had.

[RUF 3]

The other point of law which most people (police included) tend to forget is the Train Weight of the vehicle and trailer combination. If it is over 3500kg the towing vehicle must be fitted with a sealed and calibrated tachograph which must be used in accordance with the regulations, whether or not the trailer is loaded. The law is based on what the vehicle is capable of rather than what it is doing at the time. If this type of combination is used in connection with a business then it comes under Goods Vehicle Operators Licencing. It becomes worse if you hold an Operators Licence because by not specifying this vehicle on the Licence you then risk action against your existing licence. Luckily with a single seater I can keep the weight down with my trailer. I have had a couple of debates at the side of the road in the past but fortunately a life in road haulage and as a transport consultant usually gives me the edge over the police. Not with disrespect to them, of course, as I only have an intimate knowledge of a small section of the mass of legislation they have to try to cope with. Be very careful with trailers as they are a subject which seem from time to time to attract lots of attention and can easily bring several charges from one incident. I would have to look it up, but in the past if the trailer was less than 750 kg it was not taken into account for weight purposes. Part of the overall problem is the poor state a lot of trailers are in. Mine has Bridgestone tyres, brakes that work, front and rear corner marker lights, side marker lights, Fog lights etc. Apart from the fact that I would not want to tow a very expensive racing car on four old remoulds and dodgy brakes, the police tend not to bother too much if it all looks the part and lights work, number plates match etc.

[pawsmcgraw]

RUF 3 said: The other point of law which most people (police included) tend to forget is the Train Weight of the vehicle and trailer combination. If it is over 3500kg the towing vehicle must be fitted with a sealed and calibrated tachograph which must be used in accordance with the regulations, whether or not the trailer is loaded. The law is based on what the vehicle is capable of rather than what it is doing at the time. If this type of combination is used in connection with a business then it comes under Goods Vehicle Operators Licencing. It becomes worse if you hold an Operators Licence because by not specifying this vehicle on the Licence you then risk action against your existing licence. Luckily with a single seater I can keep the weight down with my trailer. I have had a couple of debates at the side of the road in the past but fortunately a life in road haulage and as a transport consultant usually gives me the edge over the police. Not with disrespect to them, of course, as I only have an intimate knowledge of a small section of the mass of legislation they have to try to cope with. Be very careful with trailers as they are a subject which seem from time to time to attract lots of attention and can easily bring several charges from one incident. I would have to look it up, but in the past if the trailer was less than 750 kg it was not taken into account for weight purposes. Part of the overall problem is the poor state a lot of trailers are in. Mine has Bridgestone tyres, brakes that work, front and rear corner marker lights, side marker lights, Fog lights etc. Apart from the fact that I would not want to tow a very expensive racing car on four old remoulds and dodgy brakes, the police tend not to bother too much if it all looks the part and lights work, number plates match etc.

Totally agree with everything your saying,but my trailer was bought new, and looked mint.I guess they just had me singled out,but the "offence" happened after the Selby crash verdict was given so i wonder if it refreshed peoples minds!
The 750kg rule is true,but if your trailer weighs 700kg you can still only carry 50kgs in it.
One thing for sure is that i'm alot wiser to the pitfalls and now when i venture out with the car transporter i carry all the paperwork.

[superflid]

RUF 3 said: The other point of law which most people (police included) tend to forget is the Train Weight of the vehicle and trailer combination. If it is over 3500kg the towing vehicle must be fitted with a sealed and calibrated tachograph which must be used in accordance with the regulations, whether or not the trailer is loaded

Wouldn't this put a fair few caravanners over the limit? Could put a few out off the road......