RE: British GTs Admit Tuscans
Monday 18th November 2002
British GTs Admit Tuscans
Two Tuscan Challenge cars may now enter the British GT Championship
Discussion
That's a good move. However, the Tuscan Challenge races are sprint races and something different to a one or more hour race. So, the competing cars have to be bullet proof. Still, I like the idea. It's certainly one of the cheapest ways into GT racing. I hope that TVR will still lease engines even if the old Tuscans prove to be faster than the new T440s. Hey PW, the old Tuscan iron are TVRs after all.
BTW, who is Mr. Nobody in comment no 2. Whoever it is, he's undermining your site, Ted.
>> Edited by hansgerd on Monday 18th November 20:45
BTW, who is Mr. Nobody in comment no 2. Whoever it is, he's undermining your site, Ted.
>> Edited by hansgerd on Monday 18th November 20:45
Now we have the chance to show just how quick a challenge Tuscan modified to GT spec can go, it's going to suprise a few people, but there are only going to be two cars allowed to race, and the option goes to the teams that came 1st and 2nd in the 2002 Tuscan Challenge, CDL, and Hawthorns Motorsport. If they don't take up the option then as I understand it, it's offered down the line. Somehow I don't see it being turned down, as a "new" TVR would cost a lot more to buy, prepare, and run. 
That's a good move. However, the Tuscan Challenge races are sprint races and something different to a one or more hour race. So, the competing cars have to be bullet proof.
All of last season the car suffered only one real mechanical failure, and the two seater has now done numerous track days and has been all but bullet proof. I doubt that the cars would have any problems lasting for an 1 1/2 race
Ouch. Not tedious, just honest asking why.
I haven't got a problem with the cars entering, they are as fast as a GT(O) car and they are certainly cheaper initially - I have a problem with them not finishing and the impact that then has on both the championship (as in why bother having a Brit Championship if there only ever a handful of cars finishing) and the potential imapct on the oft-quoted TVR reliability perception.
In fact now that I think about it Ted, your comment has pi$$ed me off. I'm not going to put a negative spin on TVR, christ I've supported them privately and from a business perspective more than most on this site, and know far more about the inside workings than to some extent I care to, but if historically they can't provide a prudent spare engine back-up support in GT, how are they going to manage to provide enough support for the 2003 TuscanR's, the potential T350's and now Tuscan challenge engines (as well as the old Cerbera)?
Maybe an alternataive step (if the challenge series is to continue as a standalone) is to permit the Chimaera's with hard-top (like Malaysia) into the Cup class ? but then that would be a car that is in it's dotage rather than adolescence (bit like the challenge cars).
Don't smack me down quite so off-handedly.
I haven't got a problem with the cars entering, they are as fast as a GT(O) car and they are certainly cheaper initially - I have a problem with them not finishing and the impact that then has on both the championship (as in why bother having a Brit Championship if there only ever a handful of cars finishing) and the potential imapct on the oft-quoted TVR reliability perception.
In fact now that I think about it Ted, your comment has pi$$ed me off. I'm not going to put a negative spin on TVR, christ I've supported them privately and from a business perspective more than most on this site, and know far more about the inside workings than to some extent I care to, but if historically they can't provide a prudent spare engine back-up support in GT, how are they going to manage to provide enough support for the 2003 TuscanR's, the potential T350's and now Tuscan challenge engines (as well as the old Cerbera)?
Maybe an alternataive step (if the challenge series is to continue as a standalone) is to permit the Chimaera's with hard-top (like Malaysia) into the Cup class ? but then that would be a car that is in it's dotage rather than adolescence (bit like the challenge cars).
Don't smack me down quite so off-handedly.
Constructive argument is always welcome.
Contributing the 'unreliability' argument with a simple throwaway remark added nothing.
The same accusation could have been (and was) levelled at the Speed 6 engines. You've been very close to the development necessary there. If you think the AJP's will prove less reliable than the much maligned Speed 6 then let us know why.
Contributing the 'unreliability' argument with a simple throwaway remark added nothing.
The same accusation could have been (and was) levelled at the Speed 6 engines. You've been very close to the development necessary there. If you think the AJP's will prove less reliable than the much maligned Speed 6 then let us know why.
Guys, still in Australia, and waiting for Ted to post something about our success over here...
however...
Beast is raising the point that the reality of a Tuscan Challenge car finishing 75 minutes of racing is very low at the moment. When we first raced the Cerbera, we started with Tuscan components. It didn't take long for us to realise that they didn't last very long....so all you guys wanting to get out there and go GT racing in a Tuscan, get lots of coolers and oil pumps, and strengthen everything in the drivetrain!
And Ted, you were pretty dismissive....Beast has extensive knowledge of what goes on, and you kicked him squarely in the swingers!
His comments are based on experience, not romance. We all want this to succeed however, and if any prospective Challenge car owner wants to ring me about how to make his car last the distance, call me.
I may have a different car now, but my heart is still in Blackpool.
Martin
however...
Beast is raising the point that the reality of a Tuscan Challenge car finishing 75 minutes of racing is very low at the moment. When we first raced the Cerbera, we started with Tuscan components. It didn't take long for us to realise that they didn't last very long....so all you guys wanting to get out there and go GT racing in a Tuscan, get lots of coolers and oil pumps, and strengthen everything in the drivetrain!
And Ted, you were pretty dismissive....Beast has extensive knowledge of what goes on, and you kicked him squarely in the swingers!
His comments are based on experience, not romance. We all want this to succeed however, and if any prospective Challenge car owner wants to ring me about how to make his car last the distance, call me.
I may have a different car now, but my heart is still in Blackpool.
Martin
My comments were based upon the off handed nature of the comment. Beast has got a lot of experience to draw on and could have offered something more constructive. We get far too many people on here making idle 'reliability' comments. If you've got something to say then say it. Flippant remarks are of no interest to anyone.
Martin - you've elaborated making good points and contributing something valuable.
I haven't kicked him in the goollies. I've just highlighted what I thought was an unconstructive comment from someone who had a lot more to contribute.
Martin - you've elaborated making good points and contributing something valuable.
I haven't kicked him in the goollies. I've just highlighted what I thought was an unconstructive comment from someone who had a lot more to contribute.
This is one of the better chat sessions for me. Knackers are de-sensitised after so much abuse.
However, here are my current constructive comments (or "a strategy paper")
1. Sell what you race, racing improves the breed (brand identification). Irrespective of what your perception of Porsche is, they are right on the nail with the 911.
2. Don't be so blinkered as to think that your product is better than the rest of the automotive world (also known as "buy in your drivetrain")
3. Meet the widest homologation spectrum (also know as "the global market-place opens up for you")
4. Controversial this one. Do not compete as a factory-backed outfit (unless prototype programme) because you WILL piss your customers off.
5. Remember that age & treachery will always triumph over youth and ability (The new Short motto, care of David Brent)
6. This is really unfair, but such another great Brent quote, I've got to include it. (Possibly applicable to all of our favourite manufacturer). "Put the key of despair into the lock of apathy. Turn the knob of mediocrity slowly and open the gates of despondency - welcome to a day in............".
Executive summary
A 911 or an American V8,....though through my rose-tinted spectacles I'd love to see TVR make me eat my words
However, here are my current constructive comments (or "a strategy paper")
1. Sell what you race, racing improves the breed (brand identification). Irrespective of what your perception of Porsche is, they are right on the nail with the 911.
2. Don't be so blinkered as to think that your product is better than the rest of the automotive world (also known as "buy in your drivetrain")
3. Meet the widest homologation spectrum (also know as "the global market-place opens up for you")
4. Controversial this one. Do not compete as a factory-backed outfit (unless prototype programme) because you WILL piss your customers off.
5. Remember that age & treachery will always triumph over youth and ability (The new Short motto, care of David Brent)
6. This is really unfair, but such another great Brent quote, I've got to include it. (Possibly applicable to all of our favourite manufacturer). "Put the key of despair into the lock of apathy. Turn the knob of mediocrity slowly and open the gates of despondency - welcome to a day in............".
Executive summary
A 911 or an American V8,....though through my rose-tinted spectacles I'd love to see TVR make me eat my words
beast said: This is one of the better chat sessions for me. Knackers are de-sensitised after so much abuse.
"Put the key of despair into the lock of apathy. Turn the knob of mediocrity slowly and open the gates of despondency - welcome to a day in............".
umm..... oh dear i guess next you want to add, and to those you who knock an informed point of view: "don't throw mud as all your doing is losing ground"
sorry but leave Americanisms off the site please !! >> Edited by d_drinks on Tuesday 19th November 15:07
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