If you was in charge of TOCA... what would you change?
Discussion
The biggest issue is long term. What happens when manufacturers are only selling electric vehicles? Mostly SUVs. Does the BTCC become an all-electric racing series? Or ‘silhouette’ racing, with an ICE engine in a racing car chassis, but given a recognisable road car body? First thing I would do is make sure touring car organisations across Europe and around the world are seriously discussing this.
Beyond the end of ICE, I think BTCC and TCR UK need to become a unified racing series that crowds want to watch.
Basically, I would be considering what happens after touring car racing as we know it has come to an end.
Short term, I think the BTCC is pretty healthy. Maybe for 3 meetings a year I would move the reverse grid race from race 3 to race 2. The entire grid would be revered based on the results of race 1. The grid for race 3 would be based on the results of race 2.
Beyond the end of ICE, I think BTCC and TCR UK need to become a unified racing series that crowds want to watch.
Basically, I would be considering what happens after touring car racing as we know it has come to an end.
Short term, I think the BTCC is pretty healthy. Maybe for 3 meetings a year I would move the reverse grid race from race 3 to race 2. The entire grid would be revered based on the results of race 1. The grid for race 3 would be based on the results of race 2.
Majority of the cars do have engines from the manufacturers range. I don't know where this idea that they don't comes from.
On the whole the main BTCC package is pretty good as is IMO. What needs to happen is a change to the support races. I would like to see a different club series get a chance on the bill at each meeting.
The support races should all be tin top based for me and not faster than the BTCC cars.
On the whole the main BTCC package is pretty good as is IMO. What needs to happen is a change to the support races. I would like to see a different club series get a chance on the bill at each meeting.
The support races should all be tin top based for me and not faster than the BTCC cars.
Edited by GlobalRacer on Tuesday 4th June 16:14
Sebring440 said:
Milkyway said:
Scenario;
Alan Gow has decided to retire from his TOCA role.
You have been given the honour of being his successor.
What changes would you implement... both short & long term.
Fitst of all, so get the thread rolling, what changes would you implement?Alan Gow has decided to retire from his TOCA role.
You have been given the honour of being his successor.
What changes would you implement... both short & long term.
For the BTCC, I would use the Legends form of qualifying.
A FA Cup style draw... Driver v Grid position.
Televised live on ITV4.
Totally random, so a bad race one won't impact on race two.
Race three grid, based on the points haul from the previous two races.
The Teams would know on the Saturday afternoon their hybrid allocation for the first two races.
The cars... Must be a production based shell.
Definitely a junior series... TBA
No F4... tin tops only.
Retain a mix of support series though... for a bit of variety.
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 4th June 16:24
I’ve watched, mainly on TV, since the great days of the ‘80s with Murray Walker commentating, and think Alan Gow’s stewardship has been pretty good.
Whenever I’ve been to a live event it has always provided an accessible and entertaining day out with a good blend of mainly close racing, and really does put F1’s self-importance into perspective.
Whilst the BTCC is the main event, I really enjoy the support races - the Porsches are good, Juniors were brilliant (what happened between Gow and Tomlinson?) and a decent level single-seater series is essential IMO.
Would also enjoy a retro/classic series.
All the motorsport most people would ever need.
Also think that the current commentary teams bring the right level of enthusiasm and quality to the TV screens.
Whenever I’ve been to a live event it has always provided an accessible and entertaining day out with a good blend of mainly close racing, and really does put F1’s self-importance into perspective.
Whilst the BTCC is the main event, I really enjoy the support races - the Porsches are good, Juniors were brilliant (what happened between Gow and Tomlinson?) and a decent level single-seater series is essential IMO.
Would also enjoy a retro/classic series.
All the motorsport most people would ever need.
Also think that the current commentary teams bring the right level of enthusiasm and quality to the TV screens.
The future of the BTCC is a good question. As mentioned above, most new cars are now hybrids or EVs, and there's fewer 'car' bodystyles being made everything is becoming a crossover/fake-SUV.
You might end up with a grid of Kia Sportages vs Ford Kugas with control engines in the near future.
I wonder if the switch to electricity might mean brands have to step up their marketing as that will be the only differentiator between brands, so might start spending money on racing again.
DTM, faced with similar challenges, has switched to being a GT series.
You might end up with a grid of Kia Sportages vs Ford Kugas with control engines in the near future.
I wonder if the switch to electricity might mean brands have to step up their marketing as that will be the only differentiator between brands, so might start spending money on racing again.
DTM, faced with similar challenges, has switched to being a GT series.
I'd add a street race somewhere in the UK at the expense of Brands Indy
and possibly and airfield temporary course somewhere in the UK where there isn't a current racing facility, at the expense of Donny GP
I might consider a race abroad.
I'd move back to group A style cars, class structure, power to weight. And you can run anything you want.
and possibly and airfield temporary course somewhere in the UK where there isn't a current racing facility, at the expense of Donny GP
I might consider a race abroad.
I'd move back to group A style cars, class structure, power to weight. And you can run anything you want.
Milkyway said:
For the BTCC, I would use the Legends form of qualifying.
A FA Cup style draw... Driver v Grid position.
Could be an idea, but let's get used to the current (new) qualifying format first, it's only just started.A FA Cup style draw... Driver v Grid position.
Milkyway said:
Televised live on ITV4.
If ITV could get a sponsor to cover Saturday afternoon TV, but you can watch it on your TV now via YouTube.Milkyway said:
Race three grid, based on the points haul from the previous two races.
A lot of series use a form of reverse grid; it's to mix up results. Without it you'd end up like World Touring cars used to be a few years back, with the championship being decided after three or four meetings. No one wants that, especially the TV sponsors that actually enable the series to be televised.Milkyway said:
The cars... Must be a production based shell.
Well, you've got that already.Milkyway said:
Definitely a junior series...
As you are well aware, that on the cards and currently being developed.Milkyway said:
No F4... tin tops only...
Why? F4's a great series.Milkyway said:
Retain a mix of support series though... for a bit of variety.
Well, you've got that already.Short term -
- Get the grid size up. It feels like half a field this year.
- Add some variety into the circuits. Coventry held competitive motorsport (against the clock) on their ring road this weekend. There is talk of World Rallycross holding a round in Coventry in 2025. No reason why BTCC couldn't be back on the streets of the UK again. Although anything other than an endless rotation of the same circuits would be nice.
- Stop using hybrid as a success penalty. Use it as a 'push to pass' Indycar style boost with a limited number of deployments per race. Go back to the good old fashioned success ballast.
- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
Long Term -
- introduce a new technical structure that allows for innovation, and different types of performance, without resulting in a monster cost arms race. I'd suggest dividing the car up into areas (brakes, suspension, aero, engine, weight, etc.) and having two sets of rules (a more prescriptive set and a less prescriptive set) for each area and allowing teams to play a 'joker' in one area where they can use the less prescriptive set of rules to find performance in that area. It'd need careful balancing & monitoring to ensure that it remained pretty even over the course of a lap whichever route you went down, but the way each car made their time was different. One car might be a straight line hero ... another a demon on the brakes ... a third corners like a housefly. Think of the Ford Galaxie vs original Mini battles in the historics ... they have very similar lap times, but make their speed in very different ways.
- Get the grid size up. It feels like half a field this year.
- Add some variety into the circuits. Coventry held competitive motorsport (against the clock) on their ring road this weekend. There is talk of World Rallycross holding a round in Coventry in 2025. No reason why BTCC couldn't be back on the streets of the UK again. Although anything other than an endless rotation of the same circuits would be nice.
- Stop using hybrid as a success penalty. Use it as a 'push to pass' Indycar style boost with a limited number of deployments per race. Go back to the good old fashioned success ballast.
- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
Long Term -
- introduce a new technical structure that allows for innovation, and different types of performance, without resulting in a monster cost arms race. I'd suggest dividing the car up into areas (brakes, suspension, aero, engine, weight, etc.) and having two sets of rules (a more prescriptive set and a less prescriptive set) for each area and allowing teams to play a 'joker' in one area where they can use the less prescriptive set of rules to find performance in that area. It'd need careful balancing & monitoring to ensure that it remained pretty even over the course of a lap whichever route you went down, but the way each car made their time was different. One car might be a straight line hero ... another a demon on the brakes ... a third corners like a housefly. Think of the Ford Galaxie vs original Mini battles in the historics ... they have very similar lap times, but make their speed in very different ways.
Have those calling for the return of Super Tourers been following the CTCRC’s efforts? It’s a monumental undertaking keeping the cars fit and race prepared through a season. I think the right idea has been had with the creation of Super Touring Power, the second iteration of which is at Brands Hatch on the 29th/30th June- I’ll be racing there provided I can get an engine fitted in time. Probably the best chance at putting a respectable ST grid together, as a one off event there is almost a year’s notice to source and prepare cars and no struggling to replace that bespoke part that broke at the last race etc. The CTCRC are clearly on TOCA’s radar with the Pre66 being on the support bill at Croft, sadly I just don’t think Super Tourers will ever be practical as a regular support series
I think they got burnt a bit last time they used the Oulton Park International layout as people said it added no more overtaking opportunities than on the Island Circuit layout. Also because it is longer, the cars went past the fans less. Would it be possible to bypass Hislops and go straight on to Knickerbrook or would that be too dangerous? You have more time to overtake going over Hilltop that way.
I loved the Super Tourers and that era but again, because of the costs involved I can't imagine they would go near it. I do agree a classic BTCC support race series would be a great draw though.
As mentioned previously I do think Alan Gow has done a good job, I would just hate to see the series die or turn into some tin-top Formula-E esque SUV race.
I loved the Super Tourers and that era but again, because of the costs involved I can't imagine they would go near it. I do agree a classic BTCC support race series would be a great draw though.
As mentioned previously I do think Alan Gow has done a good job, I would just hate to see the series die or turn into some tin-top Formula-E esque SUV race.
TO73074E said:
...I would just hate to see the series die or turn into some tin-top Formula-E esque SUV race.
I think we all agree on that. But what can be done to avoid it? Legislation and customer buying habits are driving us towards a situation where every affordable family car (here and across Europe) will be an EV SUV type car. And affordable family cars are the heart of modern touring car racing.So, how do we...
A) keep ICE cars
B) avoid SUV racing
?
SpudLink said:
So, how do we...
A) keep ICE cars ?
Luckily, the tide is turning:A) keep ICE cars ?
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/japanese-auto-giants...
Sebring440 said:
SpudLink said:
So, how do we...
A) keep ICE cars ?
Luckily, the tide is turning:A) keep ICE cars ?
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/japanese-auto-giants...
In my opinion, the BTCC must for cars that the fans can see in the local showroom. Even if the similarity is only cosmetic.
Perhaps the answer is to accept the SUV body shape, but with ICE engines sourced from elsewhere.
SpudLink said:
Sebring440 said:
SpudLink said:
So, how do we...
A) keep ICE cars ?
Luckily, the tide is turning:A) keep ICE cars ?
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/japanese-auto-giants...
In my opinion, the BTCC must for cars that the fans can see in the local showroom. Even if the similarity is only cosmetic.
Perhaps the answer is to accept the SUV body shape, but with ICE engines sourced from elsewhere.
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