Fire at Lydden
Discussion
Lydden circuit sadly suffered a fire in the paddock area today .https://fb.watch/lWEB0aaASI/
One team that runs electric cars lost both its competition cars and much of its equipment.
The circuit wasn't open to the general public at the time and no injuries were reported.
The meeting for this weekend is still going ahead but one class for electric vehicles is not running on Saturday and it depends on investigations if it will be allowed to run on Sunday .
It did involve electric vehicles.
One team that runs electric cars lost both its competition cars and much of its equipment.
The circuit wasn't open to the general public at the time and no injuries were reported.
The meeting for this weekend is still going ahead but one class for electric vehicles is not running on Saturday and it depends on investigations if it will be allowed to run on Sunday .
It did involve electric vehicles.
Statement from the FIA card https://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/world-rx/news/w...
Amazing the number of posts I've seen on social media using it as a way of saying how "dangerous" EV's are as they're all stating categorically that it was a battery that started it. It may well turn out to be but there are still investigations under way and no statements from official sources that I've seen have said what the cause was.
GlobalRacer said:
Amazing the number of posts I've seen on social media using it as a way of saying how "dangerous" EV's are as they're all stating categorically that it was a battery that started it. It may well turn out to be but there are still investigations under way and no statements from official sources that I've seen have said what the cause was.
This aged well 
bumskins said:
GlobalRacer said:
Amazing the number of posts I've seen on social media using it as a way of saying how "dangerous" EV's are as they're all stating categorically that it was a battery that started it. It may well turn out to be but there are still investigations under way and no statements from official sources that I've seen have said what the cause was.
This aged well The problem is not so much with vehicles catching fire which happens occasionally to petrol and electric alike.
It's the fact petrol/diesel fuelled fires are not self igniting/sustaining/explosive in the same way as Lithium battery fires.
If your Lithium pack goes on fire and starts a cascading failure it's almost impossible to supress/put out aside from a complete dunking.
Each cell module uses the energy it contains to set itself on fire and then it violently burns the contents/electrolyte and continually reignites.
Petrol and diesel blazes etc can be tackled with conventional fire fighting techniques and once out don't generally reignite.
Collateral damage of stuff parked nearby to a violent battery fire is therefore often higher as in this case when they lost everything.
It will be interesting to see what the post mortem reveals.
https://www.kreiselelectric.com/products/battery-s...
It's the fact petrol/diesel fuelled fires are not self igniting/sustaining/explosive in the same way as Lithium battery fires.
If your Lithium pack goes on fire and starts a cascading failure it's almost impossible to supress/put out aside from a complete dunking.
Each cell module uses the energy it contains to set itself on fire and then it violently burns the contents/electrolyte and continually reignites.
Petrol and diesel blazes etc can be tackled with conventional fire fighting techniques and once out don't generally reignite.
Collateral damage of stuff parked nearby to a violent battery fire is therefore often higher as in this case when they lost everything.
It will be interesting to see what the post mortem reveals.
https://www.kreiselelectric.com/products/battery-s...
bumskins said:
This aged well
Well given that people were posting within an hour of the fire on social media saying that it was 100% a battery fire etc etc I stand by what I posted. At the time there were zero updates other than to say investigations were ongoing. People were making assumptions. They may have turned out to be correct but they were still assuming at the end of the day.It's a bit like that video of a hospital van with exploding oxygen cylinders that constantly does the rounds as an "Electric van on fire". There's so much bias the truth gets hidden.
GlobalRacer said:
bumskins said:
This aged well
Well given that people were posting within an hour of the fire on social media saying that it was 100% a battery fire etc etc I stand by what I posted. At the time there were zero updates other than to say investigations were ongoing. People were making assumptions. They may have turned out to be correct but they were still assuming at the end of the day.It's a bit like that video of a hospital van with exploding oxygen cylinders that constantly does the rounds as an "Electric van on fire". There's so much bias the truth gets hidden.
My feeling is that the technology is being rushed and forced onto us without the side effects and the the infrastructure being in place to keep up with charging them and dealing with them when things go very wrong .
I used to transport the battery packs that had faults from the Tesla service centre in Acton .
I was never comfortable with the things especially with the ADR regulations placed on them .
I’d be surprised if it was a ‘proper’ thermal runaway unless they’re doing crazy things with the BMS or the cells were really poor quality.
I’d venture a guess it will be a battery assembly fault that has shorted the cells or someone has done something daft like using the wrong fluid for the immersion cooling
Batteries are perfectly safe when designed, built and handled properly but the two biggest issues are that there isn’t enough experience and quality control in the niche industry yet plus most circuits aren’t setup to deal with the sort of fires batteries can produce. There needs to be more regulation and training for both prevention and dealing with a battery fire if it happens.
Yes they can cause a lot of collateral damage but a battery fire does usually take a while to get going. As someone who was once engulfed in fire while strapped into a racing car after a badly designed fuel tank ruptured in a crash I don’t think it’s fair to just say ‘battery bad’.
I’d venture a guess it will be a battery assembly fault that has shorted the cells or someone has done something daft like using the wrong fluid for the immersion cooling
Batteries are perfectly safe when designed, built and handled properly but the two biggest issues are that there isn’t enough experience and quality control in the niche industry yet plus most circuits aren’t setup to deal with the sort of fires batteries can produce. There needs to be more regulation and training for both prevention and dealing with a battery fire if it happens.
Yes they can cause a lot of collateral damage but a battery fire does usually take a while to get going. As someone who was once engulfed in fire while strapped into a racing car after a badly designed fuel tank ruptured in a crash I don’t think it’s fair to just say ‘battery bad’.
The Wookie said:
Yes they can cause a lot of collateral damage but a battery fire does usually take a while to get going. As someone who was once engulfed in fire while strapped into a racing car after a badly designed fuel tank ruptured in a crash I don’t think it’s fair to just say ‘battery bad’.
True, however in my 20+ years of working on racing cars, not once have I seen a car spontaneously combust in a petrol fire whilst sat in an awning not being run. As you mention, fuel tanks can rupture in crashes, or fuel can get spilt on hot exhausts during pit stops, but it's a bit different to the fire this thread is about tbh. bumskins said:
True, however in my 20+ years of working on racing cars, not once have I seen a car spontaneously combust in a petrol fire whilst sat in an awning not being run. As you mention, fuel tanks can rupture in crashes, or fuel can get spilt on hot exhausts during pit stops, but it's a bit different to the fire this thread is about tbh.
Batteries don't just catch fire sat doing nothing either. It almost certainly will have gone up either during charging or something happened that shorted the terminals, either damage during transport or a mistake during maintenance. Like you suggest, plenty of racing cars go up while being refuelled trackside, the biggest differences is that when it's being refuelled in the awning no-one is sat in the truck having a cup of tea for 20 minutes with the fuel rig pumping into the car, plus you're never more than about 20 feet from an extinguisher designed to put out that sort of fire.
If they made sure it was attended while charging and had an EV fire blanket in the truck it might have taken a while to put out but it probably wouldn't have even damaged the awning. It certainly would have given them enough time to get other equipment away from it.
My point was that people like to demonise lithium batteries because they present dangers that we're not familiar with or used to mitigating and dealing with, it doesn't mean that what we're used to is danger free.
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