Toivonen

[Jim H]

Hi, I’ve posted this in the Rallying thread also, but I feel it has crossover connotations, and may not get the audience it richly deserves. It’s a fantastic video for all motorsport fans.

Mods please feel free to move / delete.

Thanks Jim

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-CFMir-Qw&t=63...

[LukeBrown66]

Enjoyable but not enough from his early days if it is the footage from amjayes. People forget he drove Escorts, Sunbeams, manta, Ascona and 911

[WhiteBaron]

My dad used to have an old recording of him on the circuit of of Ireland in a 911. 1980's Dickie Davies... flat out!

[coppice]

I saw at Stang Forest him in the Sunbeam on the RAC in 1980 , en route to victory. Very impressive he was too, and even more so in 1985 on the same stage in the utterly bonkers S4 . That said , even he didn't leave quite as deep an impression as Ari Vatanen - I saw him in about 76 driving the wheels off a tired Ascona

[LukeBrown66]

I only ever saw him once on the RAC in 85 and only one stage. But was glued to it after!

He was a special talent and moved on to a new level in the S4, like most champions, they just find something else. And he had found it

[Jim H]

There is many a shot of Henri doing massive tyre smoking doughnuts in his Sunbeam following his first RAC I have a similar image in my mind, when Colin won his first RAC and championships - doing the same thing.

I think Colin was the embodiment of Henri’s passion. He was just lock - to - lock - foot hard down.

I don’t really follow motorsport now, rallying / F1 etc.

The time was. I could make a trip up to Grizedale and watch for free - and be completely blown away.

When I watched Henri back in 85 on his way to his second RAC victory in the utterly bonkers S4, I thought I’d seen it all.

As a 13 year old.

Until Colin arrived a few years later.

The pity is knowing ,Colin’s attitude went way over the top, and ended in absolute tragedy for so many people.

I remember exactly where I was , what I was doing on that day in May 1986.

Also, September 15, 2007.

[coppice]

Quite so. I admired both drivers , who were fabulous to watch live on a stage , preferably miles from anywhere . But I am afraid that the circumstances of McRae's death , and the collateral damage (if I can a human tragedy that ) involved have tarnished , if not completely eradicated any legacy .

His post mortem near beatification by some rally fans utterly baffles me .

[LukeBrown66]

Indeed, it is a difficult subject and not one to write about here sadly. The same happens with people in racing who capture imagination, Senna was capable of awful things on track, yet also utter love for his fellow man, guys like AJ Foyt, adored by many yet a fairly horrible individual at times, Bernie, Walkinshaw, loved by many, hated by just as many!

Colin's talent will always be remembered, but sadly it is tinged with immense sorrow for what he did

Henri was also a troubled soul it seemed.

[zeb]

A good video indeed, hard to believe I stood in chatsworth and the likes watching those cars. Truly a great time to be watching motorsport.

[shaunroche]

It's to my eternal sadness that I never saw any Group B as I passed my test in 1987 so just missed it.

Having watched loads of stuff on the era and Toivonen in particular, I think it's fair to say he was or probably would have become the greatest of all time and I can see where the comparisons with Colin come from.

It is a fantastic video and there is room and appetite I think for another showing his live before Lancia - I know nothing of how he got the Talbot drive or his relationship with Des O'Dell which I think would be interesting...

Edited by shaunroche on Tuesday 21st March 11:58

[coppice]

Dunno about GOAT , as if it matters. There are plenty of other candidates , and latterly most of them seem to be called Sebastian ...But I am not going down that fatuous road- it is bad enough coping with F1 GOAT list threads .

[LukeBrown66]

I would say in terms of speed Henri was right there with Colin, Ari, Alen etc as the very quickest.

But GOAT stuff is about titles, wins and winning in lots of cars. And Ogier has that wrapped up all day long for me

[Jim H]

I’ve read a bit about the accident on the internet , and if you go digging ( always a dubious place) .

How true is always speculative .

There is a theory that the throttle pedal on Henri’s car became melded to the floor pan.

Iit has to be observed, Henri always drove with a heavy foot.

A very hot Corsican day…?

I think it’s generally agreed the Lancia team had also removed a ‘skid plate’ beneath the fuel tank to reduce weight.

There are other stories relating to the fuel the Lancia was running on that day, regarding a Toluene mix, I remember watching them go past and there was an evident noxious smell afterwards.

You have to bear in mind Henri’s car literally exploded.

This was essentially a No Rules formula, so it’s entirely conceivable .


I’ve visited the FOS a few times and gone up to the forest stages to see the old Group B cars, it’s not the same, theyj are generally just pootling around.

The only place I’ve had the same sensation as how absolutely unadulterated the Group B series was - when I’ve gone to the IOM TT.

[coppice]

There was certainly a reek about turbo F1 cars , both literally and metaphorically. It was almost literally eye watering on the bank between Paddock Hill and Druids in '86 , tragically the last GP to be held there .

As for the precise detail of Toivonen's death I am not remotely interested , and feel uncomfortable about speculation about the minutiae of the crash. Can it be anything other than morbid ? He died in an awful crash in a very fast and fragile rally car. Full stop.

[LukeBrown66]

Turbo cars in that era were very toxic indeed, F1 cars used a toluene mix, and this was not great stuff! But it was very effective, so it would not shock me if Lancia tried it.

But as other say I do not care, what is done is done, Henri was unwell that event and the stages were very long and tiring it was a stupid event really and always has been, basically threading a 500hp car for 50+ miles on a road on the side of a hill, it was bound to happen and had happened numerous times in the preceding few years to Bettega and we nearly lost Ari aswell. But hey Mr Balestre we could not have you dumping all over the French round could we, so lets ban the cars instead, moronic imbecile.