Is F1 really the pinnacle of motorsport?

Is F1 really the pinnacle of motorsport?

Author
Discussion

DodgyGeezer

Original Poster:

42,391 posts

197 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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I was just watching Queen of Speed and it jostled a thought loose. Namely is F1 really the pinnacle of motorsport?

The degree of innovation in F1 is extreme for sure but is the degree of innovation really that much less in WRC? For my money the drivers in WRC are more skillful than those in F1....

Go on - pull me to shreds

Oilchange

8,763 posts

267 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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Rallying is based loosely on a road car, F1 is a manufacturer making a car from scratch, more or less.

glazbagun

14,468 posts

204 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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Love rallying, but what tops this?

100SRV

2,179 posts

249 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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I'd venture that the 24hours of Le Mans has done more for the average car than Formula One.

F1 is at the forefront of Motorsport because it's good at self promotion.

SimonTheSailor

12,703 posts

235 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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DodgyGeezer said:
The degree of innovation in F1 is extreme for sure but is the degree of innovation really that much less in WRC? For my money the drivers in WRC are more skillful than those in F1....
Are we talking technology innovation or driver ability ?

I think that top class world rally drivers are the best drivers too........

Bobtherallyfan

1,341 posts

85 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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Le Mans every time
Rallying second
F1 is tedious to the extreme

emperorburger

1,484 posts

73 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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I've not watched WRC probably since the group A days.

Serious question, what significant technical innovations have happened since say the death of Group B?

Gilhooligan

2,219 posts

151 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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Depends on how you define motorsport. Pinnacle of engineering etc then yes. As far as exciting racing goes it’s not even near the top. MotoGP much more exciting for actual racing.

Volvolover

2,036 posts

48 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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SimonTheSailor said:
DodgyGeezer said:
The degree of innovation in F1 is extreme for sure but is the degree of innovation really that much less in WRC? For my money the drivers in WRC are more skillful than those in F1....
Are we talking technology innovation or driver ability ?

I think that top class world rally drivers are the best drivers too........
Put an F1 driver in a rally car and historically a good few of them have done very well.

Put a rally driver in an F1 car and they’re nowhere near the pace.


Jim Clark, Kimi, Kubica etc. i think the exception has been Loeb who tested at witching 1.5s of Kovaleinen (1-lap pace) but this is not the same as managing the car for the whole race.

Race of champions is a fun comparison but not really a good benchmark

x5tuu

12,141 posts

194 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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F1 = boring AF

ArnageWRC

2,177 posts

166 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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Not for me; it might me the biggest, and most popular - I'm not sure that makes it the pinnacle.....Something often quoted by those involved in the sport to make themselves feel important.

l'd venture Sportscars/WEC have had more road relevant technology than F1; that is what Le Mans was all about - and still is.

Rallying hasn't brought any road relevant technology for 20-30 years.....In fact, it is now quite often the last series to introduce technology; hybrids a perfect example.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

53 months

Sunday 28th November 2021
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I would say this.

F1 is only the pinnacle in terms of money and elite level engineering.

In terms of racing it is probably the worst type of motorsport that exists, it is hugely expensive to watch live, you hardly see anything, tv deals are dear and you are about as remote as it gets from the action you may aswell stay home and watch it live. but you cannot argue with the success, I have literally no idea why people want to watch it live, but they do, I consider them foolish, uneducated and a bit odd, when there is so much else to watch, but they know no better and want to be part of something they think exists for them lol!

there is not much motorsport I have not watched on two or four wheels, nearly all of it better than f1

coppice

8,907 posts

151 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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Of course it is the pinnacle , despite competing claims from other disciplines . But - and it is very big 'but ' - F1 belongs at the pinnacle of the sport but is not a separate sport in its own right. For many years , since blanket coverage on TV , a cohort of fans has existed which regards motor sport and F 1 as synonymous , and which affects disdain for and disinterest in everything else.

Which is utter nonsense . I have watched , live at track side , everything from F 1/F2 / F3 to NASCAR , Top Fuellers to Sports Prototypes , BTCC , WRC rallies and much else besides . Each has a different appeal , but they are all part of the same sport. For me ,F1 may be at the pointy bit of the pyramid , but it is a bloody big pyramid , and there is a huge amount to enjoy at every level . It isn't necessary to have a competition on which is best - on the day every discipline has the capacity to enthral - or bore the audience silly .

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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Agreed. I was disappointed when PH decided to shunt discussion about Formula 1 into its own separate forum. I thought it was indicative of the attitude that you are describing.

anonymous-user

61 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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LukeBrown66 said:
I would say this.

F1 is only the pinnacle in terms of money and elite level engineering.

In terms of racing it is probably the worst type of motorsport that exists, it is hugely expensive to watch live, you hardly see anything, tv deals are dear and you are about as remote as it gets from the action you may aswell stay home and watch it live. but you cannot argue with the success, I have literally no idea why people want to watch it live, but they do, I consider them foolish, uneducated and a bit odd, when there is so much else to watch, but they know no better and want to be part of something they think exists for them lol!

there is not much motorsport I have not watched on two or four wheels, nearly all of it better than f1
Now describe why the racing “is probably the worst type of motorsport that exists “ without your usual rant about live spectators and TV deals….


LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

53 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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Worst because you know the likely winners, the tracks are appalling, it is incredibly expensive to attend, there is immense disparity between the teams, who are inaccessible as are drivers to the fans, the racing is false using DRS and false means, the cars are too fast and aero too important, a tyre war is necessary to open things up, the sport is hidden behind paywalls not because it needs to be but because that is the trend and someone decided it was going to be, fans were not asked

Want me to carry on?

jimPH

3,981 posts

87 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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LukeBrown66 said:
Worst because you know the likely winners, the tracks are appalling, it is incredibly expensive to attend, there is immense disparity between the teams, who are inaccessible as are drivers to the fans, the racing is false using DRS and false means, the cars are too fast and aero too important, a tyre war is necessary to open things up, the sport is hidden behind paywalls not because it needs to be but because that is the trend and someone decided it was going to be, fans were not asked

Want me to carry on?
All racing is governed by rules and regulations. People are labelling LM as top tier, yet look at the LMP1 category.

The Porsche LMP1 evo, no rules, no restrictions still lapped slower around Belgium than a governed F1 car.

Most sport is hidden behind paywalls, well the ones most people want to watch anyway.

F1 is most definitely the pinnacle.

ArnageWRC

2,177 posts

166 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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Eric Mc said:
Agreed. I was disappointed when PH decided to shunt discussion about Formula 1 into its own separate forum. I thought it was indicative of the attitude that you are describing.
isn't that how most of the mainstream media operate; they have an F1 section, but not a motorsport section.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

53 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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I am not disputing F1 as the pinnacle, but you would have to pay me to watch it, every time I try I fall asleep yet could happily watch 8 hours of Petit the other week, F1 has simply outgrown me in terms of watchability.

But in terms of money, engineering, sponsors and talent, yes it is the pinnacle, but in just about every ay that matters to real fans it is way down the list of things to watch sadly.

I will NEVER pay to watch sport owned, run, and participated in by billionaires, sorry but if you do, more fool you.

resolve10

1,113 posts

52 months

Monday 29th November 2021
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LukeBrown66 said:
I will NEVER pay to watch sport owned, run, and participated in by billionaires, sorry but if you do, more fool you.
Isn't that all top level sports?

I'd rather pay a relatively modest amount to watch sportspeople at the top of their game than waste my time coming on here to tell others that I specifically don't watch it, but each to their own!