"British F3" outlawed by FIA
Discussion
Goodbye British F3, hello GB3
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/british-f3...
Seems awfully pernicious to ban use of the F3 moniker, particularly given it's historic significance to motorsport, such that we daren't besmirch its own Johnny-come-lately annexation.
Anyone able to shed any light, or shall we assume the obvious?
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/british-f3...
Seems awfully pernicious to ban use of the F3 moniker, particularly given it's historic significance to motorsport, such that we daren't besmirch its own Johnny-come-lately annexation.
Anyone able to shed any light, or shall we assume the obvious?
As I read it, to continue up using the F3 title, they would need to use the FIA F3 car below rather than the Tatuus. I guess MSV are trying to keep costs down for competitors by retaining the current car which is a good thing.
It will be interesting to see if any manufacturers are keen on building a new halo-free F3 car for these “regional” non-FIA accredited championships when the current car is due for replacement. Feels like they are on borrowed time personally and they’ll switch to the FIA car eventually
It will be interesting to see if any manufacturers are keen on building a new halo-free F3 car for these “regional” non-FIA accredited championships when the current car is due for replacement. Feels like they are on borrowed time personally and they’ll switch to the FIA car eventually
pablo said:
As I read it, to continue up using the F3 title, they would need to use the FIA F3 car below rather than the Tatuus. I guess MSV are trying to keep costs down for competitors by retaining the current car which is a good thing.
It will be interesting to see if any manufacturers are keen on building a new halo-free F3 car for these “regional” non-FIA accredited championships when the current car is due for replacement. Feels like they are on borrowed time personally and they’ll switch to the FIA car eventually
I think it would be hard to justify from a safety perspective.It will be interesting to see if any manufacturers are keen on building a new halo-free F3 car for these “regional” non-FIA accredited championships when the current car is due for replacement. Feels like they are on borrowed time personally and they’ll switch to the FIA car eventually
pablo said:
As I read it, to continue up using the F3 title, they would need to use the FIA F3 car below rather than the Tatuus. I guess MSV are trying to keep costs down for competitors by retaining the current car which is a good thing.
Keeping costs down y'say? Think you could sell that idea to the FIA?NoBrakesWC said:
Will F4 end up as GB4 etc depending which country?
They've already had that row - there used to be an MSV formula 4 https://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/msv-annou... until the FIA had a strop and started it's own, different F4 car, which killed the UK one which if I recall correctly was re-named MSA Formula, or somesuch.
The F4 we currently run is the FIA approved Tatuus chassis / Abarth engine spec car.
Kim
Looks like typical FIA over-reach, trying to standardise car types and championship titles. One of these things that looks great on the PowerPoint around the boardroom table, but translates into increased costs for competitors in practice - many of whom are young and limited in funds.
It took me a while to work out that the “Formula Regional European Championship by Alpine”, that has supported a few of the one-off F1 events over the last couple of years, is what for decades we simply called the European F3 Championship.
Presumably the FIA have registered trademarks for F3, so can decide how they are used. Shame, given the long history of the British F3 Championship. My father was at Silverstone to watch Senna and Brundle fight it out.
It took me a while to work out that the “Formula Regional European Championship by Alpine”, that has supported a few of the one-off F1 events over the last couple of years, is what for decades we simply called the European F3 Championship.
Presumably the FIA have registered trademarks for F3, so can decide how they are used. Shame, given the long history of the British F3 Championship. My father was at Silverstone to watch Senna and Brundle fight it out.
NoBrakesWC said:
Another silly question does it affect drivers wanting to progress from F3 now GB3 to F2?
in theory the only thing that’s changed is the name. But they’re been rejigging the Super Licence points structure over the years, to try and funnel everyone through FIA F3 into F2, at the expense of the national and regional competitions. Sandpit Steve said:
NoBrakesWC said:
Another silly question does it affect drivers wanting to progress from F3 now GB3 to F2?
in theory the only thing that’s changed is the name. But they’re been rejigging the Super Licence points structure over the years, to try and funnel everyone through FIA F3 into F2, at the expense of the national and regional competitions. This is your "diversity and inclusion" FIA everyone.
I don't understand the criticism of the FIA here. The FIA own the F3 name. They set up a regional F3 championship in 2017. MSV have had a special dispensation to use the name since 2018 even though they did not have regional status. In 2019 they thought about getting it, but that would have meant using the required car, which they decided not to do. The matter has been rumbling on since then, until now when the FIA have rightly decided to do something about it.
If you don't play by their rules, then you cannot use their name. It's no different from having a McDonalds franchise, and offering burgers and chips, but not buying your supplies from McD, not following their recipes and not offering their menu. There is no way that McD would let you trade like that.
And it was hardly even a regional championship, it was positively parochial! All of the rounds except 2 were on guess who's circuits. Only one was outside England. There was nothing in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and only one round in England that went further North than The Wash, and it only went there because guess who owns the circuit.
If you don't play by their rules, then you cannot use their name. It's no different from having a McDonalds franchise, and offering burgers and chips, but not buying your supplies from McD, not following their recipes and not offering their menu. There is no way that McD would let you trade like that.
And it was hardly even a regional championship, it was positively parochial! All of the rounds except 2 were on guess who's circuits. Only one was outside England. There was nothing in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and only one round in England that went further North than The Wash, and it only went there because guess who owns the circuit.
LucyP said:
I don't understand the criticism of the FIA here. The FIA own the F3 name. They set up a regional F3 championship in 2017. MSV have had a special dispensation to use the name since 2018 even though they did not have regional status. In 2019 they thought about getting it, but that would have meant using the required car, which they decided not to do. The matter has been rumbling on since then, until now when the FIA have rightly decided to do something about it.
If you don't play by their rules, then you cannot use their name. It's no different from having a McDonalds franchise, and offering burgers and chips, but not buying your supplies from McD, not following their recipes and not offering their menu. There is no way that McD would let you trade like that.
And it was hardly even a regional championship, it was positively parochial! All of the rounds except 2 were on guess who's circuits. Only one was outside England. There was nothing in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and only one round in England that went further North than The Wash, and it only went there because guess who owns the circuit.
At least "you know who" stepped up to the plate and ran the championship when it was dead in the water. Like it or not, without his circuits and influence, the motorsport scene in the UK would be in a much worse state.If you don't play by their rules, then you cannot use their name. It's no different from having a McDonalds franchise, and offering burgers and chips, but not buying your supplies from McD, not following their recipes and not offering their menu. There is no way that McD would let you trade like that.
And it was hardly even a regional championship, it was positively parochial! All of the rounds except 2 were on guess who's circuits. Only one was outside England. There was nothing in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and only one round in England that went further North than The Wash, and it only went there because guess who owns the circuit.
Kim
To be fair, there is no circuit in Wales or NI capable of hosting an F3 round. How Knockhill copes with BTCC is admirable but it’s not up to F3 standards IMHO.
The FIA own the name and now they own the standard that any driver or team aspiring to be in F1 must adhere to. If they change the car, the team just has to accept it. That’s why people are criticising the FIA.
Soon the FIA will have established an accredited route from karting to F1, neatly packaged and homogenised so any aspiring F1 driver has only one option. And yes, the only feasible way to a superlicense will be through that route.
The FIA own the name and now they own the standard that any driver or team aspiring to be in F1 must adhere to. If they change the car, the team just has to accept it. That’s why people are criticising the FIA.
Soon the FIA will have established an accredited route from karting to F1, neatly packaged and homogenised so any aspiring F1 driver has only one option. And yes, the only feasible way to a superlicense will be through that route.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th August 22:24
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th August 22:27
Do the fia "own" the name to the point they could prohibit use of British F3 in a court of law? I thought their power was more rooted in their capacity to just render the event invalid in any official capacity. In any event it's a moot point - my complaint is more the fia (liberty?) are that threatened by this comparitively shoestring plucky little national series they feel the need to punch down and use their power to undermine it.
The fia and formula 1 would be nothing without the grass roots national race series everywhere, and they'd be looking somewhat different without the thriving British Motorsport industry and passion.
What's people's beef with the MSV guy?
The fia and formula 1 would be nothing without the grass roots national race series everywhere, and they'd be looking somewhat different without the thriving British Motorsport industry and passion.
What's people's beef with the MSV guy?
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