Exporting a car to Europe

Exporting a car to Europe

Author
Discussion

ta26

Original Poster:

4 posts

139 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Hi

Does anybody have any experience of exporting a race car to Europe (once sold) and the various agro / forms needed post Brexit? Have tried online but cant seem to get a clear answer!

Thanks

Truckosaurus

12,041 posts

291 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
Surely it depends on what country it is going to, and how it is getting there (eg. might need a carnet for France if you are trailering it to Italy)

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
As above it will really depend on the final destination and how many countries it has to travel through first. At the risk of sounding obvious your best starting point is to talk to HM Revenue and Customs.

LeroyLoser

695 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
France are being extremely difficult currently with anything imported from uk, if its intended to be registered then even more so.

Trouble with a car is the fact that france will use their own used car prices to enforce 20% tax on the car, if its to be unregistered then i’m guessing it’d be taxed like used furniture etc, 20% on proof of amount paid using a receipt of proof of purchase.

Imo, best trailered into germany (who are being less dificult) from Harwich saying its going to the ring to for a track day, then make your way to whichever country its intended for, if not registered anywhere i cant see it being a problem, insure it via chassis number.

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
LeroyLoser said:
France are being extremely difficult currently with anything imported from uk, if its intended to be registered then even more so.

Trouble with a car is the fact that france will use their own used car prices to enforce 20% tax on the car, if its to be unregistered then i’m guessing it’d be taxed like used furniture etc, 20% on proof of amount paid using a receipt of proof of purchase.

Imo, best trailered into germany (who are being less dificult) from Harwich saying its going to the ring to for a track day, then make your way to whichever country its intended for, if not registered anywhere i cant see it being a problem, insure it via chassis number.
All of the above is meaningless unless we actually know the final destination and guessing at tax rates is just that, guessing. However, the main thing to ignore is the suggestion to lie and say it is just going for a track day at the ring. That will leave you in all sorts of difficult places when your paperwork doesn't check out and could potentially lead to the loss of the car, fines or worse.

Do it right and speak to HMRC first.

Ziplobb

1,409 posts

291 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
this chap
https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/james-kaye/
lives locally to me and assisted the purchaser of my R500 with export to Italy. He runs a company that move vehicles all over the world.

LeroyLoser

695 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
RedWhiteMonkey said:
LeroyLoser said:
France are being extremely difficult currently with anything imported from uk, if its intended to be registered then even more so.

Trouble with a car is the fact that france will use their own used car prices to enforce 20% tax on the car, if its to be unregistered then i’m guessing it’d be taxed like used furniture etc, 20% on proof of amount paid using a receipt of proof of purchase.

Imo, best trailered into germany (who are being less dificult) from Harwich saying its going to the ring to for a track day, then make your way to whichever country its intended for, if not registered anywhere i cant see it being a problem, insure it via chassis number.
All of the above is meaningless unless we actually know the final destination and guessing at tax rates is just that, guessing. However, the main thing to ignore is the suggestion to lie and say it is just going for a track day at the ring. That will leave you in all sorts of difficult places when your paperwork doesn't check out and could potentially lead to the loss of the car, fines or worse.

Do it right and speak to HMRC first.
Agreed, hence the ‘if’ France wink

Do it right would mean consulting customs for the country you are going to, not HMRC.

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
LeroyLoser said:
Do it right would mean consulting customs for the country you are going to, not HMRC.
Wrong, if the car leaves from the UK the correct starting point would be HMRC. They will require the initial paperwork, registration, etc. They will also be best placed to advise on requirements for different countries.

I work in export for a company exporting across the globe (not race cars though), the starting point is always customs in your own country.

LeroyLoser

695 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
RedWhiteMonkey said:
LeroyLoser said:
Do it right would mean consulting customs for the country you are going to, not HMRC.
Wrong, if the car leaves from the UK the correct starting point would be HMRC. They will require the initial paperwork, registration, etc. They will also be best placed to advise on requirements for different countries.

I work in export for a company exporting across the globe (not race cars though), the starting point is always customs in your own country.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
LeroyLoser said:
Do it right would mean consulting customs for the country you are going to, not HMRC.
Wrong, if the car leaves from the UK the correct starting point would be HMRC. They will require the initial paperwork, registration, etc. They will also be best placed to advise on requirements for different countries.

I work in export for a company exporting across the globe (not race cars though), the starting point is always customs in your own country.
Before brexit maybe, post brexit hmrc are not aware of the changes individual countries have made and thus giving poor advice, resulting in many upset brits faced with rules they’d never been made aware of, much has changed.

Best to get advice straight from the horses mouth so to speak ie the country you’re taking it to as they are the official authority, not the uk.

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
LeroyLoser said:
Best to get advice straight from the horses mouth so to speak ie the country you’re taking it to as they are the official authority, not the uk.
Starting at the end and working backwards make no obvious sense. The goods aren't even leaving the UK unless HMRC are happy with the relevant paperwork, declarations, etc. Speak to them first.

OP, what country is the car going to? Do you know the probable delivery route (ie. which countries it would pass through)?

ta26

Original Poster:

4 posts

139 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
Thanks all, very helpful. It would be to Germany although route isn’t decided yet.

Ziplobb - would you mind sending me some contact details. Tried Google but cant seem to find any.
Ziplobb said:
this chap
https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/james-kaye/
lives locally to me and assisted the purchaser of my R500 with export to Italy. He runs a company that move vehicles all over the world.

LeroyLoser

695 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
RedWhiteMonkey said:
LeroyLoser said:
Best to get advice straight from the horses mouth so to speak ie the country you’re taking it to as they are the official authority, not the uk.
Starting at the end and working backwards make no obvious sense. The goods aren't even leaving the UK unless HMRC are happy with the relevant paperwork, declarations, etc. Speak to them first.
Wrong, you dont need authority from the uk to take your possessions on a trailer away from the uk, what a strange thing to say…. you will most certainly need authority from landing port to enter with goods now.

Goods are not being stopped exiting uk currently, masses of goods are being stopped at landing point in foreign countries, i’m surprised you are not aware of this.

Megaflow

9,916 posts

232 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
I can’t help specifically with a race car, I assumed it is not road registered?

But I did sell an S2000 to a bloke in Germany a few years ago, and I queried what we did with the V5 with the DVLA. Because he came and collected the car in person and drove it back to Germany, I didn’t have to do anything. I just filled out the new keeper supplement as normal, and it is then the new keeper that exports it because they are the one’s removing it from the country.

From that I’d imagine if your buyer comes and trailers it away, you do not need to do anything, because he is exporting it.

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
LeroyLoser said:
Wrong, you dont need authority from the uk to take your possessions on a trailer away from the uk, what a strange thing to say…. you will most certainly need authority from landing port to enter with goods now.

Goods are not being stopped exiting uk currently, masses of goods are being stopped at landing point in foreign countries, i’m surprised you are not aware of this.
Correct, taking possessions out the country and bringing them back as personal belongings would not need specifically registering with HMRC (presumably what you based your being economical with the truth suggestion on) but that isn't what the OP wants to do. They want to export something that will not come back, it is a transaction. HMRC need to be informed and if the goods were to arrive at foreign customs without any paperwork/clearance from HMRC you'll be pretty screwed.

Do you actually have any day to day experience of exporting or are you just going on gut feel?

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
Megaflow said:
I can’t help specifically with a race car, I assumed it is not road registered?

But I did sell an S2000 to a bloke in Germany a few years ago, and I queried what we did with the V5 with the DVLA. Because he came and collected the car in person and drove it back to Germany, I didn’t have to do anything. I just filled out the new keeper supplement as normal, and it is then the new keeper that exports it because they are the one’s removing it from the country.

From that I’d imagine if your buyer comes and trailers it away, you do not need to do anything, because he is exporting it.
Sadly, Brexit has made it no longer that simple.

RedWhiteMonkey

7,219 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
ta26 said:
Thanks all, very helpful. It would be to Germany although route isn’t decided yet.
The good news is that you don't have many border crossings so that makes it simpler, either via France or Holland.

In very simple terms, assuming the value is more than 6000€ there will need to be a customs declaration make to HMRC and copies of the invoice (normally at least three) together with the proof of customs clearance (MRN) need to accompany the goods. This process can be done by either party but it is normally the exporter who does it as they are in the land where clearance is sought. As I don't deal with cars I have no idea how the vehicle registration side of things works. I expect a specialist vehicle exporter would do the customs and vehicle registration for you. Unless you have previous experience I'd recommend going with one of those.

LeroyLoser

695 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
RedWhiteMonkey said:
LeroyLoser said:
Wrong, you dont need authority from the uk to take your possessions on a trailer away from the uk, what a strange thing to say…. you will most certainly need authority from landing port to enter with goods now.

Goods are not being stopped exiting uk currently, masses of goods are being stopped at landing point in foreign countries, i’m surprised you are not aware of this.
Correct, taking possessions out the country and bringing them back as personal belongings would not need specifically registering with HMRC (presumably what you based your being economical with the truth suggestion on) but that isn't what the OP wants to do. They want to export something that will not come back, it is a transaction. HMRC need to be informed and if the goods were to arrive at foreign customs without any paperwork/clearance from HMRC you'll be pretty screwed.

Do you actually have any day to day experience of exporting or are you just going on gut feel?
Lots smile

You carry on, we simply disagree, no biggy beer

Portofoni

4,598 posts

86 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
"Going to the Ring" at the moment isn't a good excuse as it's closed because the whole area is very broken .

Ziplobb

1,409 posts

291 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
ta26 said:
I will try and find a phone number for you

iguana

7,055 posts

267 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
I transport cars to EU, so I've got a reasonable clue unlike some of the very wrong advice above.

To Germany is usually plus 19% vat, to all of EU if its over 30 yrs old on road cars it's much less (I've not done a 30+yr old racer yet) usually its 5%

Depending on what car & where it was manufactured it might be 10% duty also, so particularly on high value cars it gets expensive, was on a gt3 racer I did recently, well actually didn't do on the end, as buyer wasn't happy at an extra £35k on top of the purchase price.


You can't take it out on a carnet if its for export, you might risk taking it like you could pre Brexit, just strap in on yr trailer & off go, but it's a 1k fine & turned round of you are caught, chances of that are pot luck, I've taken race stuff out, cost hundreds in carnet, wasted 5 hrs getting cleared & no one cared or stopped me, grr waste of time!

If you just want to take it to the buyer & let him sort it out & it was once road registered in your name then its easier to get it out & the buyer can do what he wants with it. But a pure racer not been a road car is more tricky.


Anyway you need to talk to a customs agent, drop me a line if you want, I've used a couple.

Or if you want it transported out obviously I can do that for you & sort the paperwork.






Edited by iguana on Wednesday 28th July 21:26