Discussion
Hi Everyone
Not sure if this is allowed or in the right place. I'm sure I will find out soon enough.
Was wondering if anyone would be willing to share or give advice on how you go about choosing your race suits? Things like what attracts you to certain brand or price point etc. I.e design, price, weight, fit, customisation?
I guess if you had to buy a new one for next year where would you start and what would the decision making process be?
The reason for asking is that a friend floated the idea of making a race suit a few months ago, after some research it seams to me at least that existing products are very expensive for what they are. My company has been making fire clothing for 30 years hoping I can offer a good product for a more sensible price.
Any input on features or design would be really helpful from those who actually use them.
If anyone is in Norfolk and willing to let me look at there suit that would be great as well.
Apologies if this post is not the done thing on here.
Not sure if this is allowed or in the right place. I'm sure I will find out soon enough.
Was wondering if anyone would be willing to share or give advice on how you go about choosing your race suits? Things like what attracts you to certain brand or price point etc. I.e design, price, weight, fit, customisation?
I guess if you had to buy a new one for next year where would you start and what would the decision making process be?
The reason for asking is that a friend floated the idea of making a race suit a few months ago, after some research it seams to me at least that existing products are very expensive for what they are. My company has been making fire clothing for 30 years hoping I can offer a good product for a more sensible price.
Any input on features or design would be really helpful from those who actually use them.
If anyone is in Norfolk and willing to let me look at there suit that would be great as well.
Apologies if this post is not the done thing on here.
Probably more one for the club motorsport section, but here are my thoughts.
- I bought mine based mainly on fit. As with many things, suit manufactures go by the assumption that the taller you are the fatter you are. So someone of my height needs to be clinically obese.
- Personally design is at the bottom of my list. Once I’ve found a suit at the required safety standard, that is as close to fitting well that I can get and is in my price range, then I’ll choose the colour last.
- based on nothing more than a hunch, but I suspect getting the appropriate FIA standard isn’t cheap.
- if someone was to manufacture an approved race suit without the normal motorsport tax on top I would definitely be interested.
- as for features: pockets for putting hands in, a Velcro strap for holding the collar together at the front.
- I bought mine based mainly on fit. As with many things, suit manufactures go by the assumption that the taller you are the fatter you are. So someone of my height needs to be clinically obese.
- Personally design is at the bottom of my list. Once I’ve found a suit at the required safety standard, that is as close to fitting well that I can get and is in my price range, then I’ll choose the colour last.
- based on nothing more than a hunch, but I suspect getting the appropriate FIA standard isn’t cheap.
- if someone was to manufacture an approved race suit without the normal motorsport tax on top I would definitely be interested.
- as for features: pockets for putting hands in, a Velcro strap for holding the collar together at the front.
There have been some comings and goings in the racing apparel manufacturing market recently. I can't imagine that getting a product approved to the relevant standards is an inexpensive exercise and then ensuring that the subsequent production can repeatably pass the tests is very important.
As a consumer I rely on those standards to inform my purchase. For circuit racing I require as a minimum an FIA approved suit.
FIA standards for race suits are not updated very frequently. For example 8856-2000 has recently only recently been superseded by 8856-2018. Going by the current standards the maximum lifespan of a suit is capped at 10 years.
I have noticed that an increasing number of suits carry SFI approval as well. If I was in a 50/50 buying decision and one suit met an additional safety standard that may influence me as I might perceive it to be safer.
Cost is very much a factor for me. A few reasons;
At my level (club, amateur) I see the diminishing returns point on race suits at between £3-400. More expensive suits than this generally offer incremental enhancements in weight or customizability, things which aren't that interesting to me. Recently, the big brands' flagship suits are much more stylized with multi-coloured arty printed patterns but again these aren't things which would tempt me to part with more cash. In fact I will actively search for a plain suit.
What will cause me to replace my suit is if its no longer approved or if the scrutineers start noticing that its looking a bit threadbare. I run my own car so I will at some point over a weekend be groveling about on the floor changing the wheels etc. My suit may expire due to normal wear and tear in use but it is just as likely that I will ruin it in the paddock.
Hence I view expensive suits as something professional racing drivers have, maybe even supplied by their team. They aren't unloading and loading their car in it, they aren't changing their wheels. Cost is less of an object, maybe that 200g saving compared to a cheaper suit matters, maybe the customizability helps with the branding etc.
However in the clubs I've been in, most people are wearing off-the-peg 2-layer or entry level 3-layer suits which would've cost little more than £400. In fact perhaps the most common suits are the club-focused 2 layer suits at around £300. For every semi-pro or pro driver in a £1k suit there must be ten or more club level competitors. The three big brands all have a good offering at around this price point and are well established historic names so you would need to compete with that. Trust is a big factor when it comes to safety equipment.
The Italians seem to have something of a monopoly of brands for some reason. The products between these seem to be pretty interchangeable.
I'd say Alpinestars enjoy a cooler image because of their involvement in the wider extreme sports environment. They carry much more in your face branding and are popular with younger people.
I'm a pretty regular size so I wouldn't consider made-to-measure but for many people, buying a suit to fit their weight or height may require them to select a much baggier or taller suit than would be ideal, or they have to go custom.
As a consumer I rely on those standards to inform my purchase. For circuit racing I require as a minimum an FIA approved suit.
FIA standards for race suits are not updated very frequently. For example 8856-2000 has recently only recently been superseded by 8856-2018. Going by the current standards the maximum lifespan of a suit is capped at 10 years.
I have noticed that an increasing number of suits carry SFI approval as well. If I was in a 50/50 buying decision and one suit met an additional safety standard that may influence me as I might perceive it to be safer.
Cost is very much a factor for me. A few reasons;
At my level (club, amateur) I see the diminishing returns point on race suits at between £3-400. More expensive suits than this generally offer incremental enhancements in weight or customizability, things which aren't that interesting to me. Recently, the big brands' flagship suits are much more stylized with multi-coloured arty printed patterns but again these aren't things which would tempt me to part with more cash. In fact I will actively search for a plain suit.
What will cause me to replace my suit is if its no longer approved or if the scrutineers start noticing that its looking a bit threadbare. I run my own car so I will at some point over a weekend be groveling about on the floor changing the wheels etc. My suit may expire due to normal wear and tear in use but it is just as likely that I will ruin it in the paddock.
Hence I view expensive suits as something professional racing drivers have, maybe even supplied by their team. They aren't unloading and loading their car in it, they aren't changing their wheels. Cost is less of an object, maybe that 200g saving compared to a cheaper suit matters, maybe the customizability helps with the branding etc.
However in the clubs I've been in, most people are wearing off-the-peg 2-layer or entry level 3-layer suits which would've cost little more than £400. In fact perhaps the most common suits are the club-focused 2 layer suits at around £300. For every semi-pro or pro driver in a £1k suit there must be ten or more club level competitors. The three big brands all have a good offering at around this price point and are well established historic names so you would need to compete with that. Trust is a big factor when it comes to safety equipment.
The Italians seem to have something of a monopoly of brands for some reason. The products between these seem to be pretty interchangeable.
I'd say Alpinestars enjoy a cooler image because of their involvement in the wider extreme sports environment. They carry much more in your face branding and are popular with younger people.
I'm a pretty regular size so I wouldn't consider made-to-measure but for many people, buying a suit to fit their weight or height may require them to select a much baggier or taller suit than would be ideal, or they have to go custom.
I can make the product past the test easily as its what I do for a living. Certification again my suits are used by Fire brigades so used to the testing and certification costs. You would be surprised how relatively cheaply certification is done. Especially at the kind of margins these products are sold at its nothing.
HustleRussell said:
There have been some comings and goings in the racing apparel manufacturing market recently. I can't imagine that getting a product approved to the relevant standards is an inexpensive exercise and then ensuring that the subsequent production can repeatably pass the tests is very important.
As a consumer I rely on those standards to inform my purchase. For circuit racing I require as a minimum an FIA approved suit.
FIA standards for race suits are not updated very frequently. For example 8856-2000 has recently only recently been superseded by 8856-2018. Going by the current standards the maximum lifespan of a suit is capped at 10 years.
I have noticed that an increasing number of suits carry SFI approval as well. If I was in a 50/50 buying decision and one suit met an additional safety standard that may influence me as I might perceive it to be safer.
Cost is very much a factor for me. A few reasons;
At my level (club, amateur) I see the diminishing returns point on race suits at between £3-400. More expensive suits than this generally offer incremental enhancements in weight or customizability, things which aren't that interesting to me. Recently, the big brands' flagship suits are much more stylized with multi-coloured arty printed patterns but again these aren't things which would tempt me to part with more cash. In fact I will actively search for a plain suit.
What will cause me to replace my suit is if its no longer approved or if the scrutineers start noticing that its looking a bit threadbare. I run my own car so I will at some point over a weekend be groveling about on the floor changing the wheels etc. My suit may expire due to normal wear and tear in use but it is just as likely that I will ruin it in the paddock.
Hence I view expensive suits as something professional racing drivers have, maybe even supplied by their team. They aren't unloading and loading their car in it, they aren't changing their wheels. Cost is less of an object, maybe that 200g saving compared to a cheaper suit matters, maybe the customizability helps with the branding etc.
However in the clubs I've been in, most people are wearing off-the-peg 2-layer or entry level 3-layer suits which would've cost little more than £400. In fact perhaps the most common suits are the club-focused 2 layer suits at around £300. For every semi-pro or pro driver in a £1k suit there must be ten or more club level competitors. The three big brands all have a good offering at around this price point and are well established historic names so you would need to compete with that. Trust is a big factor when it comes to safety equipment.
The Italians seem to have something of a monopoly of brands for some reason. The products between these seem to be pretty interchangeable.
I'd say Alpinestars enjoy a cooler image because of their involvement in the wider extreme sports environment. They carry much more in your face branding and are popular with younger people.
I'm a pretty regular size so I wouldn't consider made-to-measure but for many people, buying a suit to fit their weight or height may require them to select a much baggier or taller suit than would be ideal, or they have to go custom.
Thank you so much for this. I have had this suspicion for a while that once you get over £500 the market isn't all that big as from a personal point of view that would be where I would draw the financial line. As a consumer I rely on those standards to inform my purchase. For circuit racing I require as a minimum an FIA approved suit.
FIA standards for race suits are not updated very frequently. For example 8856-2000 has recently only recently been superseded by 8856-2018. Going by the current standards the maximum lifespan of a suit is capped at 10 years.
I have noticed that an increasing number of suits carry SFI approval as well. If I was in a 50/50 buying decision and one suit met an additional safety standard that may influence me as I might perceive it to be safer.
Cost is very much a factor for me. A few reasons;
At my level (club, amateur) I see the diminishing returns point on race suits at between £3-400. More expensive suits than this generally offer incremental enhancements in weight or customizability, things which aren't that interesting to me. Recently, the big brands' flagship suits are much more stylized with multi-coloured arty printed patterns but again these aren't things which would tempt me to part with more cash. In fact I will actively search for a plain suit.
What will cause me to replace my suit is if its no longer approved or if the scrutineers start noticing that its looking a bit threadbare. I run my own car so I will at some point over a weekend be groveling about on the floor changing the wheels etc. My suit may expire due to normal wear and tear in use but it is just as likely that I will ruin it in the paddock.
Hence I view expensive suits as something professional racing drivers have, maybe even supplied by their team. They aren't unloading and loading their car in it, they aren't changing their wheels. Cost is less of an object, maybe that 200g saving compared to a cheaper suit matters, maybe the customizability helps with the branding etc.
However in the clubs I've been in, most people are wearing off-the-peg 2-layer or entry level 3-layer suits which would've cost little more than £400. In fact perhaps the most common suits are the club-focused 2 layer suits at around £300. For every semi-pro or pro driver in a £1k suit there must be ten or more club level competitors. The three big brands all have a good offering at around this price point and are well established historic names so you would need to compete with that. Trust is a big factor when it comes to safety equipment.
The Italians seem to have something of a monopoly of brands for some reason. The products between these seem to be pretty interchangeable.
I'd say Alpinestars enjoy a cooler image because of their involvement in the wider extreme sports environment. They carry much more in your face branding and are popular with younger people.
I'm a pretty regular size so I wouldn't consider made-to-measure but for many people, buying a suit to fit their weight or height may require them to select a much baggier or taller suit than would be ideal, or they have to go custom.
I have the 2018 spec on my desk it is the one I'm going for haven't heard of SFI will have to research.
If it could be done. Would a 350 gram suit at around £350-400 with just a plain design interest?
How do you buy your suits? Online or go to an actual shop to try them?
ntiz said:
Thank you so much for this. I have had this suspicion for a while that once you get over £500 the market isn't all that big as from a personal point of view that would be where I would draw the financial line.
I have the 2018 spec on my desk it is the one I'm going for haven't heard of SFI will have to research.
If it could be done. Would a 350 gram suit at around £350-400 with just a plain design interest?
How do you buy your suits? Online or go to an actual shop to try them?
I think SFI is an American standard so may be an irrelevance, depending...I have the 2018 spec on my desk it is the one I'm going for haven't heard of SFI will have to research.
If it could be done. Would a 350 gram suit at around £350-400 with just a plain design interest?
How do you buy your suits? Online or go to an actual shop to try them?
On the face of it a 350g at £350-400 might be lost in the mire as you'd be competing directly with the big names. I think you'd need to define a USP and ideally achieve a decent undercut on price as well.
OMP and Sparco are managing to put fully floating sleeves and lumbar stretch panels into their £300 suits. These are features which I do look for as they impact comfort and fit in the car.
I've been racing on a shoestring for years and my first couple of suits were oversized hand-me-downs. I did buy a new suit over the winter for this season, however it was a bit of a weird time because everybody was selling their 8856-2000 suits off and bringing 2018 suits in, and at the same time because of the overlap the 2000 suit and the 2018 suit both have a similar period of validity (9 years vs. 10 years) so I picked up a 8856-2000 suit at a discount. This was from JJC racewear and Demon Tweeks outlet stores on eBay. Because I hadn't bought a suit before and wanted to take advantage of these online only reductions I ended up ordering three suits and returning two.
OMP First-S £265
OMP Tecnica Evo £450
Alpinestars Stratos £320
The OMP was a nicer fit on me, The Alpinestars was a bit short and I felt that a size up would be loose. Between the OMPs I liked the unfussy design on the First S and the tecnica evo didn't feel £185 better so it and the Alpinestars suit went back.
I always imagined that going to one of the racewear shops and trying the suits on would be the way I would do it but at the time there weren't so many 2018 suits about and the discounts available online on the 200 suits were too tempting for me.
Not going to give you advice on cert. as I don’t know enough about it.
My priorities are fit, comfort but mostly breathability. It’s amazing how amplified the differences are once the car is hot and you’re working hard.
What I will say is how pleasantly surprised I was when I came to buy my last suit, in a bit of a rush so with just one merchant to browse from, that any of the ‘big brand’ suits, once you get over £250-odd, all seem to be great quality. I can’t remember the model of the Alpinestars suit I ended up with but it’s light as a feather and doesn’t feel like being clad by something as some of my previous suits have.
My priorities are fit, comfort but mostly breathability. It’s amazing how amplified the differences are once the car is hot and you’re working hard.
What I will say is how pleasantly surprised I was when I came to buy my last suit, in a bit of a rush so with just one merchant to browse from, that any of the ‘big brand’ suits, once you get over £250-odd, all seem to be great quality. I can’t remember the model of the Alpinestars suit I ended up with but it’s light as a feather and doesn’t feel like being clad by something as some of my previous suits have.
Another thing, I race in the HSCC and that club has a deal with Vital Equipment to produce an HSCC branded suit for competitors. Its two layer, 360g, £450+vat and the price includes driver name, national flag and HSCC embroidery... its available in custom sizes for an extra £60. It was a bit rich for my blood but the fact HSCC has a deal with Vital Equipment made me aware of the brand (hadn't heard of it before) and I think my Dad will have one as his next suit despite having bought Sparco suits every time so far.
AWS used to be the brand which offered affordable custom sized stuff in the UK but I don't actually know if they're still going?
AWS used to be the brand which offered affordable custom sized stuff in the UK but I don't actually know if they're still going?
Interesting thread this one as it’s the industry I work in.
To explode a few myths and hopefully help people’s decisions.
The cost of homologating a new suit is quite expensive and it’s for this reason that several brands actually use the same manufacturers. This is most prevelant in Italian suits. Most are made from Nomex but we’re now seeing newly homologated materials which allows cost savings.
Suits flagged as three layer aren’t always what they seem, so do your homework there!
Generally speaking suits in the £250-£400 range are all made a certain way with a weight of around 1.4kg+, they are great if you only spend short times in the car, however anything over 30 minutes and a custom suit comes into its own.
The HSCC suit is funded by Vital, that isn’t the real price of it. A custom suit from a template design, ie made to measure, your choice of colors etc will start at £600+vat.
A fully custom one off will start at £1100+vat
The thing to remember with a custom suit is the amount of time a hand made garment costs, plus the individuality that goes into them. As a rule most custom suits start at 1.2kg and go lighter.
In regards cost I always say to people, view it as a 5 year investment and the cost becomes more palatable. You would be very surprised at how much more comfortable custom suits are.
If anyone has any questions feel free to message me.
To explode a few myths and hopefully help people’s decisions.
The cost of homologating a new suit is quite expensive and it’s for this reason that several brands actually use the same manufacturers. This is most prevelant in Italian suits. Most are made from Nomex but we’re now seeing newly homologated materials which allows cost savings.
Suits flagged as three layer aren’t always what they seem, so do your homework there!
Generally speaking suits in the £250-£400 range are all made a certain way with a weight of around 1.4kg+, they are great if you only spend short times in the car, however anything over 30 minutes and a custom suit comes into its own.
The HSCC suit is funded by Vital, that isn’t the real price of it. A custom suit from a template design, ie made to measure, your choice of colors etc will start at £600+vat.
A fully custom one off will start at £1100+vat
The thing to remember with a custom suit is the amount of time a hand made garment costs, plus the individuality that goes into them. As a rule most custom suits start at 1.2kg and go lighter.
In regards cost I always say to people, view it as a 5 year investment and the cost becomes more palatable. You would be very surprised at how much more comfortable custom suits are.
If anyone has any questions feel free to message me.
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