Opinions:Should driver coaches be faster than students?
Discussion
As the title says. Do driver coaches need to be faster drivers than their students? Or, is their capability irrelevant a long as they're able to give you coaching to make your laps faster? I'm in agreement with the second statement. The same as any other sport. As long as they improve you, it doesn't matter if they're not the fastest of drivers.
Bengunn said:
As the title says. Do driver coaches need to be faster drivers than their students? Or, is their capability irrelevant a long as they're able to give you coaching to make your laps faster? I'm in agreement with the second statement. The same as any other sport. As long as they improve you, it doesn't matter if they're not the fastest of drivers.
You get slower with age and perhaps not willing to be as brave as some young gun who doesn't have kids and a mortgage to worry about.If they can improve your times and technique why would their own speed matter?
Not necessarily, and for largely the same reasons that a quick driver does not necessarily make a good development driver. Both require identifying areas that require further attention and being able to make recommendations as to what steps are needed to make that step forwards.
There are drivers who happen to be very fast, very consistent, but also be able to interact with the other party to bring out the best in them.
There are drivers who happen to be very fast, very consistent, but also be able to interact with the other party to bring out the best in them.
Interesting question.
I teach people rallying and my clients have ranged from first timers to WRC/WRX veterans. The important thing is for the instructor to recognise what is happening - whether at slow speed or high speeds. You have to be one step ahead, if you're not then you can't really do your job. Circuit instruction tends to be about looking at data etc. Rally instruction is more about making changes on the fly as there are so many variables due to grip etc.
The answer to your question is no. When people drive they tend to do exactly the same thing and can't work out why they're not faster. This is obviously once they've got the basics nailed. They often need someone to offer different techniques in a safe way, which is the job of the instructor.
I teach people rallying and my clients have ranged from first timers to WRC/WRX veterans. The important thing is for the instructor to recognise what is happening - whether at slow speed or high speeds. You have to be one step ahead, if you're not then you can't really do your job. Circuit instruction tends to be about looking at data etc. Rally instruction is more about making changes on the fly as there are so many variables due to grip etc.
The answer to your question is no. When people drive they tend to do exactly the same thing and can't work out why they're not faster. This is obviously once they've got the basics nailed. They often need someone to offer different techniques in a safe way, which is the job of the instructor.
Really interesting question and one I have often wondered.
In response to above, why is that having a greater knowledge of these techniques and the ability to spot something in someone else's driving that may be holding them back, mean that you cant apply the same to your own driving?
Or is that where aptitude or raw talent makes the difference? Possibly just how different people process information in different ways?
Genuinely interested.
In response to above, why is that having a greater knowledge of these techniques and the ability to spot something in someone else's driving that may be holding them back, mean that you cant apply the same to your own driving?
Or is that where aptitude or raw talent makes the difference? Possibly just how different people process information in different ways?
Genuinely interested.
DanTVR said:
Really interesting question and one I have often wondered.
In response to above, why is that having a greater knowledge of these techniques and the ability to spot something in someone else's driving that may be holding them back, mean that you cant apply the same to your own driving?
Or is that where aptitude or raw talent makes the difference? Possibly just how different people process information in different ways?
Genuinely interested.
Raw talent will play a part in it, but it is also often a lot easier to see where others can approve than yourself. In response to above, why is that having a greater knowledge of these techniques and the ability to spot something in someone else's driving that may be holding them back, mean that you cant apply the same to your own driving?
Or is that where aptitude or raw talent makes the difference? Possibly just how different people process information in different ways?
Genuinely interested.
Nampahc Niloc said:
Why do you ask?
I just think it's an interesting topic. I've heard people disregard instruction before as they either are, or believe they are faster than said instructor around a given circuit. Like i mentioned, i couldn't care less if the person has even driven a car before, if they have a proven track record of improving lap times i'm in. Nampahc Niloc said:
Raw talent will play a part in it, but it is also often a lot easier to see where others can approve than yourself.
I agree with the raw talent playing a part. When you drive on circuit i think it's often hard to evaluate yourself when so much concentration is going in to what you're already doing. Bengunn said:
I just think it's an interesting topic. I've heard people disregard instruction before as they either are, or believe they are faster than said instructor around a given circuit. Like i mentioned, i couldn't care less if the person has even driven a car before, if they have a proven track record of improving lap times i'm in.
The counterpoint to the ‘I’m faster than the instructor over a lap’ argument would be that if there’s 13 corners and you’re quicker on 12 but the instructor has a better line through the remaining corner, there will still be an improvement.I know a guy who used to coach at Bedford. He went on a track day with someone who was quite a lot slower for most of the lap except one fast corner, where he was taking a completely different line. There’s always room for improvement, no matter how quick you think you are.
Also, knowing which line/technique is quickest and actually being able to get a car to do that is not the same thing. As others have said, the perfect line might take more bottle than the instructor has these days.
In pretty much every sport, the students will be faster than the coach bar the novice, I’m thinking athletics, cycling, rowing etc.
The coach is there to extract the most from the student. No coach could run faster than Usain Bolt for example so does he need a coach, well someone needs to analyse his pre-race preparations, his start, the drive from the blocks, the dip at the finish etc... all to find that 0.01s
I think motorsport psychology is a fascinating subject with lots of potential and now with almost everyone having a go-pro, coaches can analyse what the drivers are doing and assess their decision making as well as lap times. Eg why they did or didn’t go for an overtake etc. Some coaches are fortunate enough to be able to sit with their student in the car making the coaching even more valuable. The bit on Top Gear with May and JYS was quite interesting.
The coach is there to extract the most from the student. No coach could run faster than Usain Bolt for example so does he need a coach, well someone needs to analyse his pre-race preparations, his start, the drive from the blocks, the dip at the finish etc... all to find that 0.01s
I think motorsport psychology is a fascinating subject with lots of potential and now with almost everyone having a go-pro, coaches can analyse what the drivers are doing and assess their decision making as well as lap times. Eg why they did or didn’t go for an overtake etc. Some coaches are fortunate enough to be able to sit with their student in the car making the coaching even more valuable. The bit on Top Gear with May and JYS was quite interesting.
I help run a motorbike team in Bahrain as a hobby. Luckily for us the races are shown live on Youtube so I watch the races on the pit tv's and look at the lines our riders take in comparison to the other riders so I can point out where they are gaining and loosing time.
I also analyse photos and the on-board videos to look at the racing lines.
Am I a fast rider, not in the slightest but it doesn't mean I cannot help the riders improve. In fact most of the rider took between 1-3 seconds off their laps times during the season, where the average lap time is 1:12.
I also analyse photos and the on-board videos to look at the racing lines.
Am I a fast rider, not in the slightest but it doesn't mean I cannot help the riders improve. In fact most of the rider took between 1-3 seconds off their laps times during the season, where the average lap time is 1:12.
You need to learn from a good teacher, not necessarily a good racer.
They may well align, but they don't have to. Teaching, or coaching, is an entirely different skill set to being a fast driver.
Also, the best coach for one individual may not be the best for another - it's quite a personal thing.
They may well align, but they don't have to. Teaching, or coaching, is an entirely different skill set to being a fast driver.
Also, the best coach for one individual may not be the best for another - it's quite a personal thing.
a driver coach needs to be close to the pace, within 1.5 secs I'd say if an older driver with experience but without the desire to lay it on the line. Other than that I'd concur that he needs to be able to communicate what you need to be doing as well as instructing but mostly coaching to get you to think about it a bit more.
It isn't the coach's job to be faster or better than the student, in motorsport or any other sport. Otherwise you'd only see world champions in the top coaching roles. And yet half of the F1 grid go to see an old guy that most people have never heard of with a Vauxhall Astra on an airfield to keep their skills sharp. This is also why many of the best F1 drivers are constantly studying the data from their slower teammates, to see if there are any tiny areas where they are faster than them, even if they are slower overall.
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