Forgive me, but I'm finding Indy better than F1
Discussion
With Indy moving to Sky F1 (yes, yes, I pay for my TV) I have to confess that after years, no, decades of F1 devotion and Indy/Cart being a minor annoyance; I'm finding Indy a better racing series than F1.
F1 has become a procession, not helped by one manufacturer dominating for the last two decades. By that I mean Ferrari then Red Bull now Mercedes with a brief interlude of technical regulation interpretation by Braun.
I'm sorry, I'm going to say it. F1 is not the pinnacle of motorsport. It's boring.
Indy is my single seater series of choice.
F1 has become a procession, not helped by one manufacturer dominating for the last two decades. By that I mean Ferrari then Red Bull now Mercedes with a brief interlude of technical regulation interpretation by Braun.
I'm sorry, I'm going to say it. F1 is not the pinnacle of motorsport. It's boring.
Indy is my single seater series of choice.
Pretty much any motorsport is better than F1 these days unless you're really into the details of twiddly bits of carbon fibre but so many people have been raised on thinking F1 is the be all and end all. There is fantastic racing for free all over the 'net pretty much any weekend and cracking club racing at circuits for the the price of a couple of pints of beer.
People are still raving on social media about the Minis on the BTCC TV coverage the other week yet they could see racing like that all the time if they wanted.
I've read many posts from people on different sites saying how they've discovered IndyCars on Sky and love it. Sad thing is it's been around for yonks and for far less than the price of watching F1 on Sky.
Nowt as queer as folk sometimes.
People are still raving on social media about the Minis on the BTCC TV coverage the other week yet they could see racing like that all the time if they wanted.
I've read many posts from people on different sites saying how they've discovered IndyCars on Sky and love it. Sad thing is it's been around for yonks and for far less than the price of watching F1 on Sky.
Nowt as queer as folk sometimes.
Kraken said:
People are still raving on social media about the Minis on the BTCC TV coverage the other week yet they could see racing like that all the time if they wanted.
Could they, though? The BTCC is on ITV4, which is free and a lot more convenient than Sky or turning up at a circuit. Indy car is hidden away on an overpriced Sky channel, the only people who will watch it are people who are interested already.To be honest, I would anyone who said they preferred F1 to just about any top level motorsport is rather dumb.
I get why people like it I suppose, but it stopped being about racing many years ago, you get the odd good race obviously, but compared to most sports, not even motorsport, it just does not deliver.
Yet, we are supposed to pay hundreds to watch it live, thousands over years to watch it on telly.
I guess I must be old fashioned, but for me, it is possibly the worst motorsport in terms of action and spectacle there is around currently.
even Formula E beats it to be honest.
I get why people like it I suppose, but it stopped being about racing many years ago, you get the odd good race obviously, but compared to most sports, not even motorsport, it just does not deliver.
Yet, we are supposed to pay hundreds to watch it live, thousands over years to watch it on telly.
I guess I must be old fashioned, but for me, it is possibly the worst motorsport in terms of action and spectacle there is around currently.
even Formula E beats it to be honest.
Depends how you define 'pinnacle' and what took you so long to realise F1 is a procession? I remember as a kid in the early 90s watching races, go outside and comeback to see that not much happened. It's why I ended up viewing CART as superior product to F1 in the 90s.
Yes, Indycar is generally more entertaining but you still get fuel saving/working to a fuel strategy.
Does IC have the best drivers? No. Seriously, how many of the current drivers would be up there with Max, Lewis, Seb? Lots of talented young drivers yes but they're also inconsistant who struggle to beat Scott Dixon to the title. Takuma Sato, Justin Wilson, Mark Blundell have won in CART/Indycar but would they have won in F1 or would you rate those drivers as race winners in F1? If no then what does that tell you about F1 being the 'pinnacle'?
Will Power dominated COTA and should have won, Rossi dominated Long Beach, Simon Pagenaud dominated Indy 500; dominate performances just different faces. Does that make it more palatable and therefore better than F1 because it's always Lewis?
There has always been teams dominating the sport, most of us grew up with McLaren & Williams dominating the 80s and 90s - a so called golden era when V12s still existed, drivers were gladiators, there was danger to it yet you could name a car/driver who would win a race and races were a procession. It's why I adored CART at its peak in the 90s with 900+bhp engines, slipstreaming on ovals, drivers like Gil De Ferran and Greg Moore should have been in F1 but even then I remember it wasn't perfect: you had boring races minimal overtaking and a lot of talk of being stuck in dirty air.
By far the biggest criticism of IC are the spec cars. There is a feel of junior formulae about it now, not befitting of top class, international level motorsport to not have chassis competition. The reality is that there isn't much money in it. In its heyday CART had a tyre war, engine war, chassis war but even F1 was and still is the pinnacle in technical terms because of it's high rate of development.
Saying that there is only so much motorsport one can watch/follow stuck on the sofa and suffering from constipation.
Yes, Indycar is generally more entertaining but you still get fuel saving/working to a fuel strategy.
Does IC have the best drivers? No. Seriously, how many of the current drivers would be up there with Max, Lewis, Seb? Lots of talented young drivers yes but they're also inconsistant who struggle to beat Scott Dixon to the title. Takuma Sato, Justin Wilson, Mark Blundell have won in CART/Indycar but would they have won in F1 or would you rate those drivers as race winners in F1? If no then what does that tell you about F1 being the 'pinnacle'?
Will Power dominated COTA and should have won, Rossi dominated Long Beach, Simon Pagenaud dominated Indy 500; dominate performances just different faces. Does that make it more palatable and therefore better than F1 because it's always Lewis?
There has always been teams dominating the sport, most of us grew up with McLaren & Williams dominating the 80s and 90s - a so called golden era when V12s still existed, drivers were gladiators, there was danger to it yet you could name a car/driver who would win a race and races were a procession. It's why I adored CART at its peak in the 90s with 900+bhp engines, slipstreaming on ovals, drivers like Gil De Ferran and Greg Moore should have been in F1 but even then I remember it wasn't perfect: you had boring races minimal overtaking and a lot of talk of being stuck in dirty air.
By far the biggest criticism of IC are the spec cars. There is a feel of junior formulae about it now, not befitting of top class, international level motorsport to not have chassis competition. The reality is that there isn't much money in it. In its heyday CART had a tyre war, engine war, chassis war but even F1 was and still is the pinnacle in technical terms because of it's high rate of development.
Kraken said:
Pretty much any motorsport is better than F1 these days unless you're really into the details of twiddly bits of carbon fibre but so many people have been raised on thinking F1 is the be all and end all. There is fantastic racing for free all over the 'net pretty much any weekend and cracking club racing at circuits for the the price of a couple of pints of beer.
What annoys me is you get people who'll only watch Indy 500 for their bit of Indycar and Le Mans for their bit of endurance racing but don't seem to make the effort for the rest of the season. Then again it wasn't that long ago people were claiming WEC was the pinnacle till the technology converged and cars looked similar.Saying that there is only so much motorsport one can watch/follow stuck on the sofa and suffering from constipation.
The point you make is fair, if you only watch car racing on race tracks.
MotoGP manages to make racing spectacular most times, three classes a day so you often get a better chance. And most bike racing make cars look uterly vapid.
Off road racing offers more immersion, I would say equally on 2 and 4 wheels.
Circuit racing is considered the pinnacle, but I think for those that matured away from it, it is considered the least interesting of ALL motorsport.
MotoGP manages to make racing spectacular most times, three classes a day so you often get a better chance. And most bike racing make cars look uterly vapid.
Off road racing offers more immersion, I would say equally on 2 and 4 wheels.
Circuit racing is considered the pinnacle, but I think for those that matured away from it, it is considered the least interesting of ALL motorsport.
I agree F1 has been boring for decades. I've always enjoyed WEC and Blancpain, etc. I'm just finding IndyCar much more engaging to watch. Texas last night (recorded, watched this morning) was much more exciting and engaging than Canada has just been. Even allowing for the controversy over Seb/Lewis.
chunder27 said:
To be honest, I would anyone who said they preferred F1 to just about any top level motorsport is rather dumb.
I get why people like it I suppose, but it stopped being about racing many years ago, you get the odd good race obviously, but compared to most sports, not even motorsport, it just does not deliver.
Yet, we are supposed to pay hundreds to watch it live, thousands over years to watch it on telly.
I guess I must be old fashioned, but for me, it is possibly the worst motorsport in terms of action and spectacle there is around currently.
even Formula E beats it to be honest.
I think many who still watch F1 are just optimistically hoping that, maybe this year or the next, year after year, they will find the magic bullet that will take us back to proper, close, competitive racing. I get why people like it I suppose, but it stopped being about racing many years ago, you get the odd good race obviously, but compared to most sports, not even motorsport, it just does not deliver.
Yet, we are supposed to pay hundreds to watch it live, thousands over years to watch it on telly.
I guess I must be old fashioned, but for me, it is possibly the worst motorsport in terms of action and spectacle there is around currently.
even Formula E beats it to be honest.
REALIST123 said:
I think many who still watch F1 are just optimistically hoping that, maybe this year or the next, year after year, they will find the magic bullet that will take us back to proper, close, competitive racing.
I think many who watch F1 probably dont realise that they're hooked because off the off-track nonsense and drama rather than the on-track follow-fest.You are forgiven.
I gave up watching F1 when it became processional & no longer a sport but a cynical business attracting the poseurs & celebrity wan-a-bees with one eye on the next career like being a male model. Why even some presenters mince about the pit lane in tight white trousers with shades tucked in their belt.
Now I watch REAL manly brave men on motorbikes, the TT etc.
I gave up watching F1 when it became processional & no longer a sport but a cynical business attracting the poseurs & celebrity wan-a-bees with one eye on the next career like being a male model. Why even some presenters mince about the pit lane in tight white trousers with shades tucked in their belt.
Now I watch REAL manly brave men on motorbikes, the TT etc.
chunder27 said:
The point you make is fair, if you only watch car racing on race tracks.
MotoGP manages to make racing spectacular most times, three classes a day so you often get a better chance. And most bike racing make cars look uterly vapid.
Off road racing offers more immersion, I would say equally on 2 and 4 wheels.
Circuit racing is considered the pinnacle, but I think for those that matured away from it, it is considered the least interesting of ALL motorsport.
Bikes are different, different dynamics to cars. As with most people in the people I have a preference and affinity to carsMotoGP manages to make racing spectacular most times, three classes a day so you often get a better chance. And most bike racing make cars look uterly vapid.
Off road racing offers more immersion, I would say equally on 2 and 4 wheels.
Circuit racing is considered the pinnacle, but I think for those that matured away from it, it is considered the least interesting of ALL motorsport.
Not really keen on Moto3. Watching pack racing doesn't sit well with me even though it's lower formulae - I've gone off it in NASCAR & Indycar.
Not keen on Michelin tyres, especially last year. It's no worse than F1 with riders having to ride within themselves which to me was false and gave the illusion to good racing. And there's last year's Assen TT with the peleton and so many overtakes it became meaningless and devalued. Which leads to this:
REALIST123 said:
I think many who still watch F1 are just optimistically hoping that, maybe this year or the next, year after year, they will find the magic bullet that will take us back to proper, close, competitive racing.
When was it ever closely competitive in the past? It's effectively the leading teams and best of the rest; the difference getting into Q2 let alone Q3 is hundreths and thousandths of a second.Overtakes, duels, dogfights are seemingly rare in F1 that when they do happen they are forever cherished in fans' rose tinted memories.
Tyre Smoke said:
I agree F1 has been boring for decades. I've always enjoyed WEC and Blancpain, etc. I'm just finding IndyCar much more engaging to watch. Texas last night (recorded, watched this morning) was much more exciting and engaging than Canada has just been. Even allowing for the controversy over Seb/Lewis.
Good, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Oval racing is different to circuit racing. The glory days of Monza are long gone but exists on America's superspeedways and hopefully continues plus, despite the flaws of aero I think the the sleek configuration with flat wings still looks cool.WJNB said:
You are forgiven.
I gave up watching F1 when it became processional & no longer a sport but a cynical business attracting the poseurs & celebrity wan-a-bees with one eye on the next career like being a male model. Why even some presenters mince about the pit lane in tight white trousers with shades tucked in their belt.
MotoGP isn't immune to corporate crap is it?I gave up watching F1 when it became processional & no longer a sport but a cynical business attracting the poseurs & celebrity wan-a-bees with one eye on the next career like being a male model. Why even some presenters mince about the pit lane in tight white trousers with shades tucked in their belt.
In the UK and EIRE bike racing is more or less a working class sport and seemingly enjoyed its status as cult/niche sport.
I would really like a proper end of season “race of champions” , not the contrived indoor arena stuff.
How about the top F1, Indy, Le Mans, various touring car and WRC drivers all engaging in a series of heats and a final in identical Caterhams around a neutral circuit, let’s say, Donington Park.
How about the top F1, Indy, Le Mans, various touring car and WRC drivers all engaging in a series of heats and a final in identical Caterhams around a neutral circuit, let’s say, Donington Park.
There is so little effort to bring disciplines together. Probably to do with pathetic contracts and manufacturer type deals hence why they use buggies and stuff at RoC now.
The original RoC was awesome at Gran Canaria, the track is still there, a proper rally track not the garbage they churn out now.
it was supposed to be a rally thing and needs to be again.
let the circuit people start their own thing
The original RoC was awesome at Gran Canaria, the track is still there, a proper rally track not the garbage they churn out now.
it was supposed to be a rally thing and needs to be again.
let the circuit people start their own thing
F1 has always been a procession. I remember, as a kid, almost dying of boredom watching Senna running off with the races I wanted Mansell to win. While there was no denying Senna's ability, it didn't make for interesting viewing. I think people look back on F1 of old as though it was some holy grail of entertaining racing. It wasn't. You just remember it that way because you only remember the handful of races that were memorable. I too enjoy Indy racing - particularly the mesmerising speed of the ovals - but I can't afford Sky so I don't get to see the races, other than whatever highlights are available on YouTube.
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