Why do BTCC not use better base cars?
Discussion
There might be an obvious reason, but why don't BTCC use the best version of the production car as a base?
For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
TheRingDing said:
There might be an obvious reason, but why don't BTCC use the best version of the production car as a base?
For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
Because the BTCC cars bear little resemblance to anactual production car (apart from criteria they have to obey), and therefore doesn't matter? For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
It's mainly which model the manufacturers want to market more than anything. At the end of the day they all use standard components and are a standard width etc so ultimately they only look like the cars they are rather than being them.
Engine wise they are all 2 litre turbos with most using the standard Vauxhall based Swindon engine.
Engine wise they are all 2 litre turbos with most using the standard Vauxhall based Swindon engine.
TheRingDing said:
There might be an obvious reason, but why don't BTCC use the best version of the production car as a base?
For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
The nominal model has a 2.0 engine I believe. Regardless of the actual engine under the hood possibly being the swindon engine rather than being based on the model.For example, Team Parker Racing use the BMW 125i rather than an M140i, and BMW Racing uses a BMW 330i rather than an M3?
Is there a regulatory reason or am I missing something here?
Both the 125 and 330 have 2.0 engines in them. (Now that BMW have moved away from linking the model number to the engine capacity)
Motorbase didn't change body the new car was a refresh of the old one made too look like a rs. If you look at the btcc register which list all chassis number btcc cars they are the same base car. Just like when honda used the tourer it was a civic with a bigger back end fited too it.
Edited by MG CHRIS on Friday 12th April 10:16
Many reasons above why I don’t really bother with the BTCC.
The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
There are probably still punters that don't realise it's variable shells over heavily standardised bases neutered by weight and boost penalties to manufacture tight competition.
We generally do, and I still find it reasonably entertaining especially as a neutral with no particular preference.
It would be grand to get manufacturers to get back to backing a championship that pitted their chassis and engines against each other with paid drivers. Too expensive though.
We generally do, and I still find it reasonably entertaining especially as a neutral with no particular preference.
It would be grand to get manufacturers to get back to backing a championship that pitted their chassis and engines against each other with paid drivers. Too expensive though.
I was quite lucky to get a vip day with Rob Austin via a PH member.
They are nothing like the road car. For example the Alfa used horizontal pushrod suspension in the boot for the rear suspension and trick stuff at the front. It was the only part of the car they wouldn’t let me take photos of.
They are nothing like the road car. For example the Alfa used horizontal pushrod suspension in the boot for the rear suspension and trick stuff at the front. It was the only part of the car they wouldn’t let me take photos of.
Like said whatever product is being pushed. Surprised it isn't badged 118d! (msport)
Wasn't the escort cosworth basically a sierra cosworth in drag?
Wasn't the escort cosworth basically a sierra cosworth in drag?
Tony1963 said:
Many reasons above why I don’t really bother with the BTCC.
The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
I find it hard to take too seriously a motorsport series that mandates silhouette racers with standardised nearly everything then chucks success ballast on them! WTaF?The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
I was trying to get a handle on BTCC car performance after wondering why the various manufacturers don't use their performance models - BMW "M", Mercedes "AMG", etc., thinking they'd be faster if they did. No, the cars are so bespoke that they're night and day different to the manufacturers' performance variants. I can't remember which circuit it was, but I analysed some lap times and discovered that a BTCC car laps in about the same time as a McLaren P1!
The last time btcc run a manufacture championship allowing manufacture too build want they want it almost killed the series year 2000 had just 8 full time super touring entries between 3 manufactures with a further 5 cars entered in selected rds. The series had too enter a production based series too bring the numbers up.
Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
MG CHRIS said:
The last time btcc run a manufacture championship allowing manufacture too build want they want it almost killed the series year 2000 had just 8 full time super touring entries between 3 manufactures with a further 5 cars entered in selected rds. The series had too enter a production based series too bring the numbers up.
Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
Is the series though more of a crowd puller than back in the 90’s when it was manufactures fighting it out ?Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
Since it became pretty much a standard series i’ve not watched it.
Tony1963 said:
Many reasons above why I don’t really bother with the BTCC.
The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
It's an entertainment series and they make no bones about it. You might be happy to see one manufacturer win over and over but many aren't. The plummeting worldwide audience for F1 shows what can happen when one team dominates.The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
If you're talking about the Subaru then that's a complete cock up by TOCA allowing the thing to be built in the first place IMO.
Kraken said:
Tony1963 said:
Many reasons above why I don’t really bother with the BTCC.
The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
It's an entertainment series and they make no bones about it. You might be happy to see one manufacturer win over and over but many aren't. The plummeting worldwide audience for F1 shows what can happen when one team dominates.The penalising of success is the killer.
Spend all off-season developing a competitive car, within tight rules, employ top driver/s, then see your car ruined by ballast. No thanks. I don’t care about close racing. I want to see a manufacturer showcase their excellence with a great driver.
And boy are those engines flat sounding.
If you're talking about the Subaru then that's a complete cock up by TOCA allowing the thing to be built in the first place IMO.
Downward said:
MG CHRIS said:
The last time btcc run a manufacture championship allowing manufacture too build want they want it almost killed the series year 2000 had just 8 full time super touring entries between 3 manufactures with a further 5 cars entered in selected rds. The series had too enter a production based series too bring the numbers up.
Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
Is the series though more of a crowd puller than back in the 90’s when it was manufactures fighting it out ?Alan Gow was in charge when that happened and now back in charge doesn't want that too happen again.
Ford reportedly spent 10million too race 3 Mondeos in 24 races back in 2000 in a domestic series that was insane back then that is nearly 17million taking in inflation.
You wouldn't have a series if that was today. The figures speak for themselves capacity grid pretty much every year since the full ngtc regs came in more manufactures have come back bmw and Toyota you also have honda and Subaru and dealer backed Vauxhall. Then private teams with vw Audi honda bmw and merc. Models civic fk2, civic fk8, corolla, a-class, focus, 3 series, 1 series, s3, levorg, Passat, mg6, astra. Apart from during the multi class era there hasn't been a more varied spread of cars mix of true privater teams and bigger teams with part manufacture backing. Record spectator attendance at the tracks even the media day had more people there than what a average race meet had 10-15 years ago.
Ngtc regs have been a success for the btcc since introducing back in 2011.
Since it became pretty much a standard series i’ve not watched it.
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