The MSA have changed their name and logo
Discussion
Drumroll said:
So the MSA now want to be known as Motorsport UK complete with new logo. Wonder how much that exercise cost and how much will it costs clubs and officials to change all their paperwork, clothing etc. Already heard They (MSA) will not be paying for scrutineers new branded clothing.
What a complete waste of their time and resources. With them using motorsport as one word does that mean they get known as MUK now?
And like you say, what about everyone else in the sport that has to also pay out of their own pockets to change their name and logo!
Drumroll said:
So the MSA now want to be known as Motorsport UK complete with new logo. Wonder how much that exercise cost and how much will it costs clubs and officials to change all their paperwork, clothing etc. Already heard They (MSA) will not be paying for scrutineers new branded clothing.
... sound like the UK arm of the Motorsport(.com) network ... Change their approach, do their job better, make Motorsport cheaper to get into, and less about money and I might listen.
Waste of time the lot of them, people who run events, fair enough, unsung heroes, but all these people do is stick obstacles in the way of competing for thousands.
Certainly in my case/
Waste of time the lot of them, people who run events, fair enough, unsung heroes, but all these people do is stick obstacles in the way of competing for thousands.
Certainly in my case/
Aside from the cost of rebranding everything - which if it's done over a number of years it shouldn't cost too much I think it's a good thing.
Organisers and competitors can now write and propose partnerships to people with a clear relationship to Motorsport in the UK, rather than something which isn't necessarily the leader of UK Motorsports as it's an Association.
However, it now comes across as the single overarching body and I watch with interest to see what effect that has on other organisations such as ORCI and IOPD.
Organisers and competitors can now write and propose partnerships to people with a clear relationship to Motorsport in the UK, rather than something which isn't necessarily the leader of UK Motorsports as it's an Association.
However, it now comes across as the single overarching body and I watch with interest to see what effect that has on other organisations such as ORCI and IOPD.
I think the MSA get a raw deal from a lot of people to be honest. For instance people moan on and on about the fire extinguisher changes and the cost of that but seem to completely ignore the changes that double the useful life of most harnesses.
Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never had the slightest issue with any MSA official. I do seem to be unusual in the motorsport world though in that I actually read timetables, parking regulations, series rules etc etc.
Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never had the slightest issue with any MSA official. I do seem to be unusual in the motorsport world though in that I actually read timetables, parking regulations, series rules etc etc.
Eric Mc said:
Makes sense to me. Acronym based names are meaningless to those not in the know. The MSA was originally the Motorsport section of the RAC. Decades ago, the Irish motorsport division of the RIAC was hived off and rebranded as Motorsport Ireland.
Makes sense to me too. I see it as one step in a long journey to re-purpose the organisation. The launch video said something along the lines of "we are changing from just a regulating authority to an organisation which promotes the sport and lowers the barriers to entry". That can only be a good thing.Re: changing logos on clothing - is it actually mandatory for "officials" to wear MSA-branded clothing? I understand that many do, perhaps to ensure the competitor knows who they are, but surely nobody's going to care if the scrutineer is wearing an MSA polo shirt next year?
thepawbroon said:
an organisation which promotes the sport and lowers the barriers to entry". That can only be a good thing.
As I said, their base intentions are often good. But they create far more barriers than they remove. Actually all of the barriers are ones created by them or past incarnations.This is fine for top flight motorsport where teams are well funded and drivers more than often paid. But for grass roots stuff, it can just be in the way of letting people have fun in a safer environment.
300bhp/ton said:
As I said, their base intentions are often good. But they create far more barriers than they remove. Actually all of the barriers are ones created by them or past incarnations.
This is fine for top flight motorsport where teams are well funded and drivers more than often paid. But for grass roots stuff, it can just be in the way of letting people have fun in a safer environment.
I think that is changing, judging by the number of key staff changes recently and forthcoming. There have been some changes already (extension of cut off dates for belts and seat, roll cage details) since Dave Richards came in. Be positive and expect more. This is fine for top flight motorsport where teams are well funded and drivers more than often paid. But for grass roots stuff, it can just be in the way of letting people have fun in a safer environment.
People get mixed up here.
Barriers are ARDS test, joining clubs, entry fees, massive extra costs, when they should be trying to make every discipline easier to get into, find cheaper ways of running motorsport, that are not limited to a few handbrake turns round cones in an ASDA car park.
There are simpler and far cheaper ways to race things, I could buy an enduro bike this week, spend about 40 quid on an entry fee and do a 4 hour event this weekend, with boots, helmet and goggles, NOTHING else, no stupid, pointless test, no club to join, no pre booking or practice or 250 quid for 20 laps on a track with 6 corners.
I know track time is expensive, so find a way to make it less so at other venues, get more kids involved away from karting that is prohibitively expensive for most parents, get people into off road sport somehow, work with other governing bodies, have events where big names give their time for FREE and do rides, talk to fans, hook people in, make shows like the NEC cheaper to get people aware in the off season, instead of making it a cash and grab raid for an already filthy rich venue and publishing company who do nothing for their money.
No-one here is going to criticise the officials, (unless they have a grievance), they give up their time for our sport, but the MSA could do a hell of a lot more in many ways.
Barriers are ARDS test, joining clubs, entry fees, massive extra costs, when they should be trying to make every discipline easier to get into, find cheaper ways of running motorsport, that are not limited to a few handbrake turns round cones in an ASDA car park.
There are simpler and far cheaper ways to race things, I could buy an enduro bike this week, spend about 40 quid on an entry fee and do a 4 hour event this weekend, with boots, helmet and goggles, NOTHING else, no stupid, pointless test, no club to join, no pre booking or practice or 250 quid for 20 laps on a track with 6 corners.
I know track time is expensive, so find a way to make it less so at other venues, get more kids involved away from karting that is prohibitively expensive for most parents, get people into off road sport somehow, work with other governing bodies, have events where big names give their time for FREE and do rides, talk to fans, hook people in, make shows like the NEC cheaper to get people aware in the off season, instead of making it a cash and grab raid for an already filthy rich venue and publishing company who do nothing for their money.
No-one here is going to criticise the officials, (unless they have a grievance), they give up their time for our sport, but the MSA could do a hell of a lot more in many ways.
chunder27 said:
People get mixed up here.
Barriers are ARDS test, joining clubs, entry fees, massive extra costs, when they should be trying to make every discipline easier to get into, find cheaper ways of running motorsport, that are not limited to a few handbrake turns round cones in an ASDA car park.
There are simpler and far cheaper ways to race things, I could buy an enduro bike this week, spend about 40 quid on an entry fee and do a 4 hour event this weekend, with boots, helmet and goggles, NOTHING else, no stupid, pointless test, no club to join, no pre booking or practice or 250 quid for 20 laps on a track with 6 corners.
I know track time is expensive, so find a way to make it less so at other venues, get more kids involved away from karting that is prohibitively expensive for most parents, get people into off road sport somehow, work with other governing bodies, have events where big names give their time for FREE and do rides, talk to fans, hook people in, make shows like the NEC cheaper to get people aware in the off season, instead of making it a cash and grab raid for an already filthy rich venue and publishing company who do nothing for their money.
No-one here is going to criticise the officials, (unless they have a grievance), they give up their time for our sport, but the MSA could do a hell of a lot more in many ways.
Perhaps you don’t know all there is about motorsport? You only quote MSA-related requirements for a small proportion of the events. Barriers are ARDS test, joining clubs, entry fees, massive extra costs, when they should be trying to make every discipline easier to get into, find cheaper ways of running motorsport, that are not limited to a few handbrake turns round cones in an ASDA car park.
There are simpler and far cheaper ways to race things, I could buy an enduro bike this week, spend about 40 quid on an entry fee and do a 4 hour event this weekend, with boots, helmet and goggles, NOTHING else, no stupid, pointless test, no club to join, no pre booking or practice or 250 quid for 20 laps on a track with 6 corners.
I know track time is expensive, so find a way to make it less so at other venues, get more kids involved away from karting that is prohibitively expensive for most parents, get people into off road sport somehow, work with other governing bodies, have events where big names give their time for FREE and do rides, talk to fans, hook people in, make shows like the NEC cheaper to get people aware in the off season, instead of making it a cash and grab raid for an already filthy rich venue and publishing company who do nothing for their money.
No-one here is going to criticise the officials, (unless they have a grievance), they give up their time for our sport, but the MSA could do a hell of a lot more in many ways.
How about buying a car for £400 (cheaper cars are available), doing half a dozen 12-car rallies (between 2.5 and 5 hours long) at £10-£20 entry fee, the only other expense was a map (£5.99) and a happy meal. Or use the same car to do an all-day multi venue Targa rally at £80 entry fee including lunch.
There are loads of really cheap motorsport disciplines that are more than “cones in an Asda car park” the problem is making them known. Hence the MSA have clearly stated they are going to do more promotion. Which is the “hell of a lot more” that you ask for. Give them time and support and positive direct suggestions. Even get involved?
chunder27 said:
There are simpler and far cheaper ways to race things, I could buy an enduro bike this week, spend about 40 quid on an entry fee and do a 4 hour event this weekend, with boots, helmet and goggles, NOTHING else, no stupid, pointless test, no club to join, no pre booking or practice or 250 quid for 20 laps on a track with 6 corners.
What are the insurance figures and business rates like for the track you would be doing that enduro event on? Is it a field when it's not a track so there are zero running costs when it's not being raced on?Tests are hardly pointless. For instance, I wouldn't want to go near a race track with 30 cars putting out over 200bhp each without some idea that the drivers knew what they were doing and understood the basic flag signals. Go to an arrive and drive kart circuit with first timers and stag dos in Sodi karts and imagine what one of those races would be like with Rotax karts.
Personally I don't see things like ARDs test and club fees etc as a problem. They are a tiny part of the overall cost. The biggest issue for entry level motorsport is what the competitors choose to spend.
In basic karting people will pay five figure sums for engines that push out 1bhp more than standard and new tyres for every race. In car racing there are people turning up at "production" level club events with ex-touring car transporters, six mechanics and cars that aren't far removed from touring cars in spec themselves.
Galveston said:
Such as...?
I'm another who has yet to experience the negative side of the MSA/MUK.
I'm a club scutineer, so I'm quite familiar with some parts of the Blue Book.I'm another who has yet to experience the negative side of the MSA/MUK.
EDIT: the below turned into a bit of a ramble, not sure I'm really making a point or just waffling....
My concern is the cost of being able to use certain vehicles for certain events, can be difficult or costly. As is getting into certain types of events.
Some of this might be aimed at individual clubs, but as a rule they base their rules and opinions on those from the MSA.
Sometimes it can be silly little things, like you can't take the carpet or door cards off and club dependent will either not be allowed to enter at all or end up in a specials class against truly purpose built vehicles.
Engine size categories also seem a little crazy, such as allowing something like a 1.8 160hp Caterham to compete (complete with no interior as they don't have any). Or a EP9 Civic Type R with over 200hp. But 3.9 litre MGB with 182hp might not be allowed or have to go in a different class.
Rallying or similar events seem to always be very expensive to get into, because you need a lot of prep and safey gear. I'm not saying this isn't a good idea, but for £99-120 I can go and drive flat out round a race track with nothing more than a crash helmet in cars capable of 200mph and 0-100mph in well under 10 seconds.
However if I want to drive a 100hp car on the same race track as part of a tarmac rally I need a £1500-3500 roll cage, certified race suits, gloves, boots, belts, etc etc.
There also seems little place for allowing common sense. I heard reports earlier in the year that a car was turned away from a historic rally because the rollcage was too safe. The owner had built the cage to more modern standards with additional fixed cross bars over the doors, the original homoligation papers for the vehicle didn't have these. I know of another historic event, a circuit one. Where an Alvis was turned away because it was the wrong shade of blue.
In the off road world there have been issues with tyre lists, where the MSA removed a load of tyres people actually used. for grass roots motorsport having to suddenly replace 4-8 tyres, which might be your only ones simply because they are no longer on a list is pretty pointless really.
I just wonder sometimes if there needs to be an easier way to allow people to come and use their vehicles at grass roots events. The only thing you really need is some for of liability insurance should anyone fall over or get hit. All drivers should be signing on to say they take full responsibility for their actions.
I don't know how they do it in the USA, but I know they can run a rally event in an open area and people turn up like we would here for a track day and they essentially run a mini stage rally in their road going cars, no cages, no over burdening regs. To do the same here would require a lot of investment in a vehicle and gear. My angle here is, how many young people mess about racing on the roads or in a Tesco's carpark? Far too many. If motorsport could give them a place to come and do similar, but in a more controlled environment, then it would be safer overall. But the cost is just too high.
300bhp/ton said:
I just wonder sometimes if there needs to be an easier way to allow people to come and use their vehicles at grass roots events. The only thing you really need is some for of liability insurance should anyone fall over or get hit. All drivers should be signing on to say they take full responsibility for their actions.
I don't know how they do it in the USA, but I know they can run a rally event in an open area and people turn up like we would here for a track day and they essentially run a mini stage rally in their road going cars, no cages, no over burdening regs. To do the same here would require a lot of investment in a vehicle and gear. My angle here is, how many young people mess about racing on the roads or in a Tesco's carpark? Far too many. If motorsport could give them a place to come and do similar, but in a more controlled environment, then it would be safer overall. But the cost is just too high.
What about Targa rallying? It is precisely what you describe. No safety gear, no requirement for the vehicle other than a warning triangle and possibly spill kit. I've done some in my standard £400 Suzuki Ignis. I've organised two. The problem is that they are not well publicised, nor understood. The Motorsport UK announcement says they will do more to solve that problem, but anyone with have an ounce of determination could find a decent, fun, cheap grass roots motorsport event. I don't know how they do it in the USA, but I know they can run a rally event in an open area and people turn up like we would here for a track day and they essentially run a mini stage rally in their road going cars, no cages, no over burdening regs. To do the same here would require a lot of investment in a vehicle and gear. My angle here is, how many young people mess about racing on the roads or in a Tesco's carpark? Far too many. If motorsport could give them a place to come and do similar, but in a more controlled environment, then it would be safer overall. But the cost is just too high.
thepawbroon said:
What about Targa rallying? It is precisely what you describe. No safety gear, no requirement for the vehicle other than a warning triangle and possibly spill kit. I've done some in my standard £400 Suzuki Ignis. I've organised two. The problem is that they are not well publicised, nor understood. The Motorsport UK announcement says they will do more to solve that problem, but anyone with have an ounce of determination could find a decent, fun, cheap grass roots motorsport event.
Yes they are good events, sadly never held all that locally to me... participated in a few "gymkhana" events that used to push the rules to the limits. I think the targa's have replaced these pretty much.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff