Some basic rally questions for a new starter on a budget :S

[alibilly97]

We're looking at a 206 1.6L to have a go at turning into somewhat of a rally car:

What would the top priorities be when turning a car into a more rally ready (entry level) vehicle?

Thanks!

[cuprabob]

I would have thought safety and getting it to a standard that it passes scrutineering would be the first priority.

[alibilly97]

Is there a scrutineer checklist anywhere online?

[Gary C]

Used to do the motoring news road rallies, a lot of fun.

local car club would probably be invaluable to you for help and advice

but it costs, ie it will absorb any money you have

[DelicaL400]

All the requirements are in the MSA blue book - available on the MSA website.

You don't say what sort of rallying you are planning on doing, the requirements are different for road/targa/stage. If doing stage rallies you'll also need to budget for racesuit, helmets, hans device etc etc etc

[sfaulds]

alibilly97 said:

Is there a scrutineer checklist anywhere online?

https://www.msauk.org/News-Publications/Publicatio...

You'll need Section J and Section R. Enjoy....

[alibilly97]

DelicaL400 said:

All the requirements are in the MSA blue book - available on the MSA website.

You don't say what sort of rallying you are planning on doing, the requirements are different for road/targa/stage. If doing stage rallies you'll also need to budget for racesuit, helmets, hans device etc etc etc

Would be stage rally most likely

[alibilly97]

Gary C said:

Used to do the motoring news road rallies, a lot of fun.

local car club would probably be invaluable to you for help and advice

but it costs, ie it will absorb any money you have

Ah right will have to have a look around

[alibilly97]

cuprabob said:

I would have thought safety and getting it to a standard that it passes scrutineering would be the first priority.

So rollbars and seats and belts I presume?

[fttm]

Depends on how long you want the car to last , shell strengthening , multi point cage . IIRC there's someone on the UK Motorsport page building a car and showing all the costs involved , worth a look .

[GravelBen]

Might be better off to buy a car that is already prepared to a reasonable standard to start with rather than learning everything the hard way yourself.

Depends whether you're more interested in building it or driving it though I guess.

Edited by GravelBen on Monday 5th February 00:54

[bloomen]

Much, much cheaper to buy a car that's ready.

[velocemitch]

Pop over to the club motorsport forum and have a read through the Targa and Road Rally thread.
I’d tentatively suggest that would probably be much more easily attainable than jumping in to Stage Rallying. The costs to start up and do your first few events are a fraction of what you would spend on the stages and you would probably see better results too.

[fat80b]

Kind of agree with buying a car that's already prepped but well prepped ones still need a lot of work to keep them going and you have to start fixing it sooner or later. I am at the clubman end of the entry list so doing it on a shoestring. The below would be the costs to get to the startline imho not including a standard road car to begin with......

Cage (to the right spec) - £1K+
fire extinguisher plumbed in + a handheld - £300
Seats pair (dated) - £750
Belts pair (dated) - £250
emergency pulls - £40 + work
another set of wheels and 2 sets of rally tyres - £1.5K
window hammers £10

Suits, boots, helmet, hans (1K each for driver and nav)
Bars test £250 (including a half day at a rally school)

The above will get you through scrutineering and starting at the back of the field. You could probably get lots of it second hand to reduce the costs a bit.


After that, there is optional strengthening, engine work, brake improvements etc. but I would also consider the following necessary.
Hydraulic handbrake - £150 + work
Fuses redone
Intercom £250
Camera £250
trailer £1500
Improved lights (if planning on anything in winter)


plus then your 1 day stage rally entry and getting there costs - entry ~£300, plus fuel to and from the venue towing a rally car.

I budget ~£1K all in per event (getting there + race tyres, plus fuel and sandwiches) for each 1 day stage rally entered. I tend not to stay over the night before an event but many people do and I am lucky to never have broken it too badly at an event so far.

Looking at the above list, it definitely makes sense to buy a pre built car - you can probably get a car that will pass scrutineering for half the cost of building one.......

Doing all that gets you here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgcC5p5OE_w&t=... and you should definitely do it.....

[velocemitch]

All the above is very true. But please be aware that practically none of it is necessary (although some advisory) with Road or Targa Rallying.
If the budget considerations of Stage Rallying blow your mind you need to look at the alternative.
90% of the fun 10% of the cost!.
A 1.6 L 206 will always get blown out of the water on stages and you really wouldn’t want to spend so much getting it prepped. I know crews that could win a Targa in a mildly prepped 1600 205.

[alibilly97]

fttm said:

Depends on how long you want the car to last , shell strengthening , multi point cage . IIRC there's someone on the UK Motorsport page building a car and showing all the costs involved , worth a look .

Ah right , haven’t heard of she’ll strengthing before!

[alibilly97]

velocemitch said:

All the above is very true. But please be aware that practically none of it is necessary (although some advisory) with Road or Targa Rallying.
If the budget considerations of Stage Rallying blow your mind you need to look at the alternative.
90% of the fun 10% of the cost!.
A 1.6 L 206 will always get blown out of the water on stages and you really wouldn’t want to spend so much getting it prepped. I know crews that could win a Targa in a mildly prepped 1600 205.

I’ve read that you can’t modify in targa rallies? Is this true?

[alibilly97]

Gary C said:

Used to do the motoring news road rallies, a lot of fun.

local car club would probably be invaluable to you for help and advice

but it costs, ie it will absorb any money you have

It seems to be a very expensive project by the looks of It!

[velocemitch]

alibilly97 said:

velocemitch said:

All the above is very true. But please be aware that practically none of it is necessary (although some advisory) with Road or Targa Rallying.
If the budget considerations of Stage Rallying blow your mind you need to look at the alternative.
90% of the fun 10% of the cost!.
A 1.6 L 206 will always get blown out of the water on stages and you really wouldn’t want to spend so much getting it prepped. I know crews that could win a Targa in a mildly prepped 1600 205.

I’ve read that you can’t modify in targa rallies? Is this true?

Not sure where you read that but its only true up to a point;
There are restrictions on modifications, for instance the car must retain its interior and be a single body colour with no advertising or fancy stripes. Extended Wheel Arches aren't permitted either.

However you are free to upgrade front Seats, add Roll cages, Harnesses, Sump Guards, Hydraulic handbrakes etc. Some venues restrict Tyres to Road patterns, but others allow Knobblies.

Certain Engine restrictions apply, they are quite complicated so better read in the blue book. But basically unless you swap the Pugs induction system you should be fine with the 1.6. You would actually be allowed to swap the whole engine as long as it wasn't a Turbo (over 1.4cc) or an engine higher than the capacity of the maximum fitted into a 206 shell.

There are highly modified Mk 2 Escorts on Road and Targa events running with stuff like 250 bhp Honda VTEC engines and fully tricked suspension which are as quick as the equivalent Stage Rally Car.

[avenger286]

I started stage rallying a few years ago after road rallying. Realistically you need a min of 5k to build a basic car then your equipment on top of that. It's the small things you forget about that cost the money when building a car. I have purchased rally cars before and sold them on as you just end up with other people's attempts at building a car and bodges. I have built a Ford Puma and I am just on building a Renault Twingo (build in the readers cars).
Budget for each rally depends on the rally I did mull in 2016 and that cost around 3k to do for example.