V8/V6TT Supercars
Discussion
Well here's the new thread, I still think that SM was robbed but hey the result won't change:
PRA: I feel they need to open up the performance of their car & make it a bit less knife edge setup wise.
Erebus: Build on & develop the DR car & get a good driver in the second car.
GRM: Need to push forward now they've had a season under their belts
TWR/Andretti Autosport: Anything will be an improvement on this season & they need to get JC reignited
Nissan: I felt they had a decent season this year & the car improved I think they step on again now TK has retired.
Redbull: They'll be smarting from losing the teams championship but I expect them to bounce back but with SVG spearheading the attack.
Vortex: I think this will be the last full season for CL he's been a bit anonymous this season another one like that & he'll be gone.
Teckno: I think they've lost their way technically the car didn't seem to have a sweet spot.
PRA: I feel they need to open up the performance of their car & make it a bit less knife edge setup wise.
Erebus: Build on & develop the DR car & get a good driver in the second car.
GRM: Need to push forward now they've had a season under their belts
TWR/Andretti Autosport: Anything will be an improvement on this season & they need to get JC reignited
Nissan: I felt they had a decent season this year & the car improved I think they step on again now TK has retired.
Redbull: They'll be smarting from losing the teams championship but I expect them to bounce back but with SVG spearheading the attack.
Vortex: I think this will be the last full season for CL he's been a bit anonymous this season another one like that & he'll be gone.
Teckno: I think they've lost their way technically the car didn't seem to have a sweet spot.
Will be interesting to see how the V6's go too Here's a breakdown of what commentators regard as the top ten drivers, it would be good to hear others thoughts:
10) Scott Pye
Team: Mobil 1 HSV Racing
Championship: 12th
Best result: 2nd - Bathurst with Warren Luff
Average result: 14.0
Average qualifying: 17.0
DJR Team Penske outcast Pye had plenty to prove in 2017.
Mobil 1 HSV Racing’s struggles made it a tough place in which to shine, but the fifth-year Supercars driver performed strongly against team-mate James Courtney.
They both ended up with a podium, two top fives and five top 10s for the season, while Pye narrowly lost out in the qualifying battle 12:13.
Consistency, however, meant Pye ended up a full nine places higher in points, with 12th providing some level of respectability to a largely horror year for the once Holden factory squad.
Pye’s campaign was highlighted by a podium at Bathurst, where he fought all day with the front-runners after some inspired early driving from Warren Luff.
9) Mark Winterbottom
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 6th
Best result: 2nd - Phillip Island, Pukekohe
Average result: 9.4
Average qualifying: 7.2
Mark Winterbottom was largely overshadowed by two of his team-mates this year and, at times, it was hard to believe ‘Frosty’ was the champion just two seasons ago.
He ended the year without a pole or race win and never looked a title contender. He did enough though to be sixth in the points, behind Chaz Mostert but ahead of Cameron Waters.
Winterbottom was teamed with his fifth engineer in six seasons this year and, crucially, the #5 crew failed to maximise on days when the Prodrive equipment was good enough to win.
Still, 12 top five qualifying performances and provisional pole for the season finale showed that there’s still plenty of speed in the former champ.
8) Cameron Waters
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 8th
Wins: 1 - Sandown 500 with Richie Stanaway
Average result: 10.9
Average qualifying: 9.6
After a rough rookie season that netted just 19th in the standings, Cameron Waters was one of the big improvers in 2017.
Work in the off-season, which included a visit to renowned driver coach Rob Wilson in the UK, was well documented and showed the youngster’s dedication to his craft.
He gelled quickly with new engineer Brad Wischusen to score a confidence-building, equal-career best fourth place in the Adelaide opener.
Waters had to wait mid-September for his first podium as a primary driver, but it came in spectacular fashion with a brilliant win at Sandown.
He was also in fine form at Bathurst, but ultimately went unrewarded after being dragged into team-mate Mostert’s late-race mistake.
7) Garth Tander
Team: Wilson Security Racing GRM
Championship: 9th
Best result: 3rd - Phillip Island
Average result: 10.6
Average qualifying: 15.1
The more things changed for Garth Tander in 2017, the more they stayed the same.
Landing at GRM as it switched from Volvo to Holden, the ex-Walkinshaw veteran experienced another year of racing his way through from lowly qualifying positions.
His 15.1 average grid position was just 16th in the pecking order, yet Tander was a top 10 runner in the championship from Phillip Island onwards.
Unlike his one-lap struggles at Walkinshaw, Tander was at least leading the way for his team this year, beating James Moffat 17:9 in head-to-head qualifying.
Tander was typically strong at Bathurst and proved a contender until running off when a light rain shower came over while running second on a late restart.
6) Fabian Coulthard
Team: Shell V-Power Racing
Championship: 3rd
Wins: 4 - Symmons Plains, Phillip Island, Hidden Valley, Sydney Motorsport Park
Average result: 6.0
Average qualifying: 6.8
Starting his second season at Penske in the shadow of hype surrounding new recruit Scott McLaughlin, Coulthard was in fine form early in the campaign.
He qualified in the top two during the year’s first five dry-weather qualifying sessions and won twice to lead the standings from Phillip Island through Townsville.
Consistency allowed him to retake the points lead at Bathurst, but he was well and truly in McLaughlin’s wake for the bulk of the campaign, particularly in qualifying.
Almost always starting behind, Coulthard’s remaining two wins – at Hidden Valley and Sydney Motorsport Park – came in races McLaughlin made a mistake.
5) Shane van Gisbergen
Team: Red Bull Holden Racing Team
Championship: 4th
Wins: 5 - Adelaide x 2, Symmons Plains, Winton, Pukekohe
Average result: 6.9
Average qualifying: 4.5
Reigning champion van Gisbergen looked every bit the favourite to go back-to-back after a dominant display in the season-opening Adelaide 500.
Tyre failures at Phillip Island and Hidden Valley, where he failed to finish following a clash with Garth Tander, soon had the Kiwi on the back foot, and he never truly recovered.
Mistakes also littered his campaign, most notably a restart infringement in Sydney, a raft of offs at Bathurst and his pit-entry clanger at Pukekohe.
But for much of the year, the speed was there, and it’s worth noting that he ultimately edged Jamie Whincup on qualifying average (4.5 vs 4.6) and head-to-head (14:12).
On the whole, it wasn’t a bad season but the polished performance of 2016 had left many expecting more.
4) David Reynolds
Team: Erebus Motorsport
Championship: 7th
Wins: 1 - Bathurst 1000 with Luke Youlden
Average result: 9.8
Average qualifying: 9.0
Reynolds’ performance at Bathurst alone earns him a place on this list. He was among the fastest all week and drove brilliantly when it mattered most late on Sunday.
But there was much more to celebrate for Reynolds and Erebus in 2017 than just a single win, as this combination repeatedly took the fight to the bigger teams.
The team struggled early in the year to produce a strong qualifying and race car on the same day, with form swinging rapidly between one-lap and race distances.
By mid-year, though, they had a strong base package, which Luke Youlden’s form at Sandown and Bathurst proved.
Seventh in points came despite a mini slump after Bathurst, but Reynolds was at his brilliant best in the season finale, ending the year with a podium behind the dominant Red Bulls.
3) Chaz Mostert
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 5th
Wins: 3 - Phillip Island, Queensland Raceway, Gold Coast
Average result: 6.7
Average qualifying: 5.1
After a winless 2016, Mostert upped his game this season. He entered the year leaner and more focused and - with engineer Adam De Borre back in his corner - was back to his best.
For the majority of the campaign Mostert was the biggest threat to the Red Bull and Shell heavyweights, particularly in qualifying.
Although without a pole until the Gold Coast, his tally of 18 top five qualifying results was bettered only by McLaughlin and van Gisbergen.
He maximised opportunities to take wins at Phillip Island, Queensland Raceway and the Gold Coast, where he wrapped up the PIRTEK Enduro Cup alongside Steve Owen.
There were a smattering of mistakes though that prevented more wins, including sliding out of the lead on both days at Symmons Plains.
Bathurst remains the big one that got away as, having been utterly untouchable in the heavy wet conditions, a locked tyre and then a restart error took the #55 out of the fight.
2) Jamie Whincup
Team: Red Bull Holden Racing Team
Championship: 1st
Wins: 4 - Townsville, Sydney Motorsport Park, Pukekohe, Newcastle
Average result: 5.7
Average qualifying: 4.6
It was no surprise to hear Whincup declare 2017 as the best of his seven titles after stealing it on the line in Newcastle.
Unlike previous campaigns where he’d been the pace-setter, this year had Whincup scrapping for every point against the might of McLaughlin and Penske.
His poles (two) and wins (four) were few, but each utterly brilliant. The pole/victory double at Pukekohe was arguably his greatest day of 2017, setting up a lead heading into the finale.
Ultimately though, Whincup is second on this list for several reasons.
He was edged by team-mate van Gisbergen in qualifying across the year, which went against the narrative that Whincup was out-performing his car.
It shouldn’t be forgotten, either, that like McLaughlin, Whincup too made a crucial mistake in Newcastle, throwing away his points lead with an opening-lap tangle on the Saturday.
Whincup was a very deserving champion, but he was not the standout driver of 2017.
1) Scott McLaughlin
Team: Shell V-Power Racing
Championship: 2nd
Wins: 8 - Barbagallo x 2, Winton, Hidden Valley, Townsville, Queensland Raceway, Gold Coast, Newcastle
Average result: 5.3
Average qualifying: 2.5
McLaughlin may have faltered on the final day of the season to miss out on the title, but on all other measurements, he was the driver of the year.
Yes, the Ludo Lacroix-tuned #17 Shell Ford was lightning fast, but there was undoubtedly a significant driver component in its 16 pole positions and eight race wins.
McLaughlin’s dominance against Coulthard, particularly over one lap, often left us wondering how Penske’s progress would have looked without the recruitment of the youngster.
Remarkably, it took just one event for McLaughlin to be comfortable in the car, adapting quickly to the unique, corner entry-phase characteristics of the Ford.
Communication and strategy issues cost points in the early races, but it was the potential 300-point haul lost to an engine failure at Bathurst that proved the biggest blow.
On the pure driving front, blots on McLaughlin’s copybook were few.
Throwing away the lead at Hidden Valley and spinning van Gisbergen in Sydney were the only real failings ahead of the finale.
Many will consider Sunday in Newcastle as McLaughlin losing the unlosable title but, for a first year in a previously struggling team, contending to the last day was a mighty achievement.
10) Scott Pye
Team: Mobil 1 HSV Racing
Championship: 12th
Best result: 2nd - Bathurst with Warren Luff
Average result: 14.0
Average qualifying: 17.0
DJR Team Penske outcast Pye had plenty to prove in 2017.
Mobil 1 HSV Racing’s struggles made it a tough place in which to shine, but the fifth-year Supercars driver performed strongly against team-mate James Courtney.
They both ended up with a podium, two top fives and five top 10s for the season, while Pye narrowly lost out in the qualifying battle 12:13.
Consistency, however, meant Pye ended up a full nine places higher in points, with 12th providing some level of respectability to a largely horror year for the once Holden factory squad.
Pye’s campaign was highlighted by a podium at Bathurst, where he fought all day with the front-runners after some inspired early driving from Warren Luff.
9) Mark Winterbottom
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 6th
Best result: 2nd - Phillip Island, Pukekohe
Average result: 9.4
Average qualifying: 7.2
Mark Winterbottom was largely overshadowed by two of his team-mates this year and, at times, it was hard to believe ‘Frosty’ was the champion just two seasons ago.
He ended the year without a pole or race win and never looked a title contender. He did enough though to be sixth in the points, behind Chaz Mostert but ahead of Cameron Waters.
Winterbottom was teamed with his fifth engineer in six seasons this year and, crucially, the #5 crew failed to maximise on days when the Prodrive equipment was good enough to win.
Still, 12 top five qualifying performances and provisional pole for the season finale showed that there’s still plenty of speed in the former champ.
8) Cameron Waters
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 8th
Wins: 1 - Sandown 500 with Richie Stanaway
Average result: 10.9
Average qualifying: 9.6
After a rough rookie season that netted just 19th in the standings, Cameron Waters was one of the big improvers in 2017.
Work in the off-season, which included a visit to renowned driver coach Rob Wilson in the UK, was well documented and showed the youngster’s dedication to his craft.
He gelled quickly with new engineer Brad Wischusen to score a confidence-building, equal-career best fourth place in the Adelaide opener.
Waters had to wait mid-September for his first podium as a primary driver, but it came in spectacular fashion with a brilliant win at Sandown.
He was also in fine form at Bathurst, but ultimately went unrewarded after being dragged into team-mate Mostert’s late-race mistake.
7) Garth Tander
Team: Wilson Security Racing GRM
Championship: 9th
Best result: 3rd - Phillip Island
Average result: 10.6
Average qualifying: 15.1
The more things changed for Garth Tander in 2017, the more they stayed the same.
Landing at GRM as it switched from Volvo to Holden, the ex-Walkinshaw veteran experienced another year of racing his way through from lowly qualifying positions.
His 15.1 average grid position was just 16th in the pecking order, yet Tander was a top 10 runner in the championship from Phillip Island onwards.
Unlike his one-lap struggles at Walkinshaw, Tander was at least leading the way for his team this year, beating James Moffat 17:9 in head-to-head qualifying.
Tander was typically strong at Bathurst and proved a contender until running off when a light rain shower came over while running second on a late restart.
6) Fabian Coulthard
Team: Shell V-Power Racing
Championship: 3rd
Wins: 4 - Symmons Plains, Phillip Island, Hidden Valley, Sydney Motorsport Park
Average result: 6.0
Average qualifying: 6.8
Starting his second season at Penske in the shadow of hype surrounding new recruit Scott McLaughlin, Coulthard was in fine form early in the campaign.
He qualified in the top two during the year’s first five dry-weather qualifying sessions and won twice to lead the standings from Phillip Island through Townsville.
Consistency allowed him to retake the points lead at Bathurst, but he was well and truly in McLaughlin’s wake for the bulk of the campaign, particularly in qualifying.
Almost always starting behind, Coulthard’s remaining two wins – at Hidden Valley and Sydney Motorsport Park – came in races McLaughlin made a mistake.
5) Shane van Gisbergen
Team: Red Bull Holden Racing Team
Championship: 4th
Wins: 5 - Adelaide x 2, Symmons Plains, Winton, Pukekohe
Average result: 6.9
Average qualifying: 4.5
Reigning champion van Gisbergen looked every bit the favourite to go back-to-back after a dominant display in the season-opening Adelaide 500.
Tyre failures at Phillip Island and Hidden Valley, where he failed to finish following a clash with Garth Tander, soon had the Kiwi on the back foot, and he never truly recovered.
Mistakes also littered his campaign, most notably a restart infringement in Sydney, a raft of offs at Bathurst and his pit-entry clanger at Pukekohe.
But for much of the year, the speed was there, and it’s worth noting that he ultimately edged Jamie Whincup on qualifying average (4.5 vs 4.6) and head-to-head (14:12).
On the whole, it wasn’t a bad season but the polished performance of 2016 had left many expecting more.
4) David Reynolds
Team: Erebus Motorsport
Championship: 7th
Wins: 1 - Bathurst 1000 with Luke Youlden
Average result: 9.8
Average qualifying: 9.0
Reynolds’ performance at Bathurst alone earns him a place on this list. He was among the fastest all week and drove brilliantly when it mattered most late on Sunday.
But there was much more to celebrate for Reynolds and Erebus in 2017 than just a single win, as this combination repeatedly took the fight to the bigger teams.
The team struggled early in the year to produce a strong qualifying and race car on the same day, with form swinging rapidly between one-lap and race distances.
By mid-year, though, they had a strong base package, which Luke Youlden’s form at Sandown and Bathurst proved.
Seventh in points came despite a mini slump after Bathurst, but Reynolds was at his brilliant best in the season finale, ending the year with a podium behind the dominant Red Bulls.
3) Chaz Mostert
Team: Prodrive Racing Australia
Championship: 5th
Wins: 3 - Phillip Island, Queensland Raceway, Gold Coast
Average result: 6.7
Average qualifying: 5.1
After a winless 2016, Mostert upped his game this season. He entered the year leaner and more focused and - with engineer Adam De Borre back in his corner - was back to his best.
For the majority of the campaign Mostert was the biggest threat to the Red Bull and Shell heavyweights, particularly in qualifying.
Although without a pole until the Gold Coast, his tally of 18 top five qualifying results was bettered only by McLaughlin and van Gisbergen.
He maximised opportunities to take wins at Phillip Island, Queensland Raceway and the Gold Coast, where he wrapped up the PIRTEK Enduro Cup alongside Steve Owen.
There were a smattering of mistakes though that prevented more wins, including sliding out of the lead on both days at Symmons Plains.
Bathurst remains the big one that got away as, having been utterly untouchable in the heavy wet conditions, a locked tyre and then a restart error took the #55 out of the fight.
2) Jamie Whincup
Team: Red Bull Holden Racing Team
Championship: 1st
Wins: 4 - Townsville, Sydney Motorsport Park, Pukekohe, Newcastle
Average result: 5.7
Average qualifying: 4.6
It was no surprise to hear Whincup declare 2017 as the best of his seven titles after stealing it on the line in Newcastle.
Unlike previous campaigns where he’d been the pace-setter, this year had Whincup scrapping for every point against the might of McLaughlin and Penske.
His poles (two) and wins (four) were few, but each utterly brilliant. The pole/victory double at Pukekohe was arguably his greatest day of 2017, setting up a lead heading into the finale.
Ultimately though, Whincup is second on this list for several reasons.
He was edged by team-mate van Gisbergen in qualifying across the year, which went against the narrative that Whincup was out-performing his car.
It shouldn’t be forgotten, either, that like McLaughlin, Whincup too made a crucial mistake in Newcastle, throwing away his points lead with an opening-lap tangle on the Saturday.
Whincup was a very deserving champion, but he was not the standout driver of 2017.
1) Scott McLaughlin
Team: Shell V-Power Racing
Championship: 2nd
Wins: 8 - Barbagallo x 2, Winton, Hidden Valley, Townsville, Queensland Raceway, Gold Coast, Newcastle
Average result: 5.3
Average qualifying: 2.5
McLaughlin may have faltered on the final day of the season to miss out on the title, but on all other measurements, he was the driver of the year.
Yes, the Ludo Lacroix-tuned #17 Shell Ford was lightning fast, but there was undoubtedly a significant driver component in its 16 pole positions and eight race wins.
McLaughlin’s dominance against Coulthard, particularly over one lap, often left us wondering how Penske’s progress would have looked without the recruitment of the youngster.
Remarkably, it took just one event for McLaughlin to be comfortable in the car, adapting quickly to the unique, corner entry-phase characteristics of the Ford.
Communication and strategy issues cost points in the early races, but it was the potential 300-point haul lost to an engine failure at Bathurst that proved the biggest blow.
On the pure driving front, blots on McLaughlin’s copybook were few.
Throwing away the lead at Hidden Valley and spinning van Gisbergen in Sydney were the only real failings ahead of the finale.
Many will consider Sunday in Newcastle as McLaughlin losing the unlosable title but, for a first year in a previously struggling team, contending to the last day was a mighty achievement.
Much as I dislike him SVG and Whincup should be swapped in the rankings as my opinion is SVG was the better racer but just had worse luck in terms of reliability. I thought Waters would be higher because of his sterling drives in the wet especially at Bathurst and I thought Chaz Mostert would be lower as he did bump into quite a few people throughout the season.
I don't see how they can give Scotty the number 1 when he was clearly in the best car all year, yet managed not to win the championship. Whincup is higher because for a lot of the season SVG "invisible". He also managed to throw any a Bathurst victory with mistake after mistake.
Anyhoo! PRA is to become Tickford Racing and Team Vortex to become Autobarn Lowndes Racing in 2018. Any word yet on how the next gen Holden done on its homologation tests?
Anyhoo! PRA is to become Tickford Racing and Team Vortex to become Autobarn Lowndes Racing in 2018. Any word yet on how the next gen Holden done on its homologation tests?
Edited by N0ddie on Thursday 4th January 14:47
As much as I would love to see Scott win the title no-one really deserved it. J-Dub was rarely in top form and benefitted from Scotty's inability to dominate the championship which he should have done on paper.
Stand out driver for me was Richie Stanaway. He drove like he was racing for a championship let alone as a veteran.
TommoAE86 said:
I thought Waters would be higher because of his sterling drives in the wet especially at Bathurst
Looked average for most of the year until the enduro's onwards that he showed his potential. Stand out driver for me was Richie Stanaway. He drove like he was racing for a championship let alone as a veteran.
N0ddie said:
I don't see how they can give Scotty the number 1 when he was clearly in the best car all year, yet managed not to win the championship. Whincup is higher because for a lot of the season SVG "invisible". He also managed to throw any a Bathurst victory with mistake after mistake.
Anyhoo! PRA is to become Tickford Racing and Team Vortex to become Autobarn Lowndes Racing in 2018. Any word yet on how the next gen Holden done on its homologation tests?
The ‘best car all year’ was developed by Coulthard. SM was gifted it. Yes he did a decent job with it (Fabes needs to be way more aggressive) but he was fortunate to be provided with a well developed car. No doubt at all that Ludo was a huge signing too. Some of the strategy calls I witnessed in the DJR pit at Bathurst 2016 were terrible. Anyhoo! PRA is to become Tickford Racing and Team Vortex to become Autobarn Lowndes Racing in 2018. Any word yet on how the next gen Holden done on its homologation tests?
Edited by N0ddie on Thursday 4th January 14:47
andy rob said:
cant believe scott pye was in the top 10 !!!
Agree with the rest of the drivers but not in exactly the same order
Scottie is a massively improved driver in 2017. He was seriously demotivated at DJR in 2016 and the move was absolutely the right thing to do. He’s always been incredibly consistent but the off in practice at Bathurst 2016 showed how ill at ease he was. This year he’s performed really well. Nice bloke, decent taste in watches too Agree with the rest of the drivers but not in exactly the same order
Lists are a bit irrelevant really, it’s what the drivers do on the track on the day that counts. They are all excellent masters of their craft and entertain and thrill us with their skills. IMO tHis is the most entertaining race series in the world along with the BTCC. I am looking forward to seeing the mix of V8 and V6 cars this year.
hammo19 said:
Lists are a bit irrelevant really, it’s what the drivers do on the track on the day that counts.
Not really, IMHO.The championship table is another form of statistical analysis, points systems are imperfect and one can interpret what a driver does on the track.
Lists are subjective, can be fun and only as informative as the analysis which can reinforce or alter your own opinions.
First full season I've watched on Superview last year and it was a brilliant service, especially for the money.
Amazing finale to the season, had me literally out of my seat.
Siperview 2018 is now up for renewal on the supercars website, but does anyone know if you can still watch the 2017 races somewhere?
Amazing finale to the season, had me literally out of my seat.
Siperview 2018 is now up for renewal on the supercars website, but does anyone know if you can still watch the 2017 races somewhere?
Like a Numpty i subscribed to Superview in December not realising it's a season thing . So after another £24 odd quid today i'm good to go again... Checked i could Airplay it to the Apple TV ... Cracking clear streaming too from the videos on the site onto the TV. just got to work out the time zones now
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