B-TEC development series
Discussion
So been announced that during 2016 there will be a series run for old ngtc btcc cars the press release is all in the link below
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122457
So there is meant to be a grid of 12 cars for the first round and from my thinking the cars that are sitting still are the following.
x4 passats
x2 audi a4
x4 civics 2 from eurotech and maybe 2 older civics sitting somewhere
x2/3 mgs new cars for 2016
x2 protons again new cars for 2016
handful of avensis may be sitting around not sure how many have been built
insignia think they were turned into the Passat so not sure on that
x1 infiniti will they ever get back in the btcc
is there any older focus ngtc cars out there
Anything else im forgetting.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122457
So there is meant to be a grid of 12 cars for the first round and from my thinking the cars that are sitting still are the following.
x4 passats
x2 audi a4
x4 civics 2 from eurotech and maybe 2 older civics sitting somewhere
x2/3 mgs new cars for 2016
x2 protons again new cars for 2016
handful of avensis may be sitting around not sure how many have been built
insignia think they were turned into the Passat so not sure on that
x1 infiniti will they ever get back in the btcc
is there any older focus ngtc cars out there
Anything else im forgetting.
andy97 said:
It's a good idea in theory but are there enough cars?
I have said elsewhere that I think they should run additional classes for the cars to S2000 regs and those S2000 cars that had the NGTC engines fitted in the first year of NGTC.
Agreed run the amd golf which I think is in time attack series, the curze, seat leon, old foucses, vectras.I have said elsewhere that I think they should run additional classes for the cars to S2000 regs and those S2000 cars that had the NGTC engines fitted in the first year of NGTC.
How many relaisticly speaking ngtc cars out there that aren't be used cant see there being more than double digits. But by the track list pembrey looks like the same weekend as the truck meeting so a must go for me being close to pembrey.
Yay, ANOTHER tin top series in the uk...
I just cannot get excited about this at all. I know the teams have to make money some way, and as the BTCC is the only series to run the regs they do, and the cars are so expensive, they need to do something with all the redundant chassis, but even if it is successful (which i doubt - what I can see happening is an MSVR F3 cup scenario where you have a grid of 8-12 cars with one or two quite quick up and coming people who will win all the races by over half a minute, and the rest of the grid will be made up of drivers that have a load of money and want a jolly out in a touring car). all it will do is deplete the grids of:
Renault Clio Cup uk
Porsche Cup
Ginetta
VW Cup
(delete as appropriate)
Sorry for the rather depressing/damning view but I cannot see yet another series as a positive.
I just cannot get excited about this at all. I know the teams have to make money some way, and as the BTCC is the only series to run the regs they do, and the cars are so expensive, they need to do something with all the redundant chassis, but even if it is successful (which i doubt - what I can see happening is an MSVR F3 cup scenario where you have a grid of 8-12 cars with one or two quite quick up and coming people who will win all the races by over half a minute, and the rest of the grid will be made up of drivers that have a load of money and want a jolly out in a touring car). all it will do is deplete the grids of:
Renault Clio Cup uk
Porsche Cup
Ginetta
VW Cup
(delete as appropriate)
Sorry for the rather depressing/damning view but I cannot see yet another series as a positive.
Edited by designndrive62 on Thursday 14th January 09:26
Lol
rallycross said:
"The budgets for the 12 races should be under the £100,000 mark."
Good luck with that idea.
If they're running NGTC engines aswell as NGTC cars then there is bob hope of getting a year's racing for £100k, it's at least 300k for a season as it is at the moment, if the entrance fees are less thenergy it'll be what? A 250 minimum series then? Good luck with that idea.
Fag packet maths [all prices + VAT except entry];
Entry - £500
Team Fee - £3500*
Tyres (4 off slicks) - £1000*
Insurance - £5000**
Car Rental - £4500**
That’s £16.8k plus entry so a little above what £100k/6 rounds comes out as but can presume there would be a discount for block booking.
Tyre example above doesn’t factor in wets, which are pumped as soon as you use them on a dry/drying track. 2 wet race meetings a year, budget for 3 sets of wets £3500. Nothing stopping someone using fresh tyres for qualifying or the races. So more like 2 sets of tyres a weekend, that’s another £7k.
If competitive the championship would very quickly be just like the Clios where performance is directly proportional to testing. 3 test days including fees, tyres, team support, £10k at the very, very minimum.
So that’s me casually added over £25k on to the budget without sharting an engine/gearbox/turbo or sustaining any ‘big’ damage.
Entry - £500
Team Fee - £3500*
Tyres (4 off slicks) - £1000*
Insurance - £5000**
Car Rental - £4500**
That’s £16.8k plus entry so a little above what £100k/6 rounds comes out as but can presume there would be a discount for block booking.
- = based on same as Clio Cup prices
- = based on BTCC car is 3 times as expensive as a Clio so 3 times the price
Tyre example above doesn’t factor in wets, which are pumped as soon as you use them on a dry/drying track. 2 wet race meetings a year, budget for 3 sets of wets £3500. Nothing stopping someone using fresh tyres for qualifying or the races. So more like 2 sets of tyres a weekend, that’s another £7k.
If competitive the championship would very quickly be just like the Clios where performance is directly proportional to testing. 3 test days including fees, tyres, team support, £10k at the very, very minimum.
So that’s me casually added over £25k on to the budget without sharting an engine/gearbox/turbo or sustaining any ‘big’ damage.
Well first team to confirm is bmr alongside rob Austin racing.
Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
rallycross said:
There is no point unless you have some old touring cars in the garage that you can't sell and maybe you can find someone daft enough to fork out a load of cash to hire one.
Whilst I feel the costing is nonsense, I do give them credit for creating the series.Now the grid is essentially privateer teams, a situation like the super touring era where cars became obsolete and worth a tenth of their build cost would have been disastrous, especially with control parts upgrades like we've just seen. At least this time there has been a series created to retain some value and give them somewhere to go.
MG CHRIS said:
Well first team to confirm is bmr alongside rob Austin racing.
Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
When they said they stripped the Insignias I assume they mean they stripped out all the subframes etc that are standard parts, to put in the VWs. With all the old control parts being available, they "just" need to bolt them on to the chassis and away they go...Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
Munter said:
MG CHRIS said:
Well first team to confirm is bmr alongside rob Austin racing.
Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
When they said they stripped the Insignias I assume they mean they stripped out all the subframes etc that are standard parts, to put in the VWs. With all the old control parts being available, they "just" need to bolt them on to the chassis and away they go...Bmr will field up to 6 car 4 being the passats and 2 oddly the old insignia that still remain in one piece which goes against other reports saying they were stripped to build the passats. Got to give it to warren scott and the team from just fielding one seat leon back in what 2013 to having 9 cars 2 insignias/4 passats/ 3 subarus and a 4th during the year with manufacturing backing that's some effort and also the tie in with 888.
As a team actually done that before gone from a one car team at the back of the grid to owning 10 plus manufacturing backing plus a tie up with a well known team in just 4 years.
MG CHRIS said:
Well apparently they are all in one piece and are ready to go unless they have purchased the kit knowing this was going to happen.
As the above poster said, stripped in BTCC terms means the standard TOCA parts have been removed. They will have had spare parts and will have acquired a load of old bits from 888 I'm sure so that'll be plenty to get the cars up and running again.Stripping the cars doesn't mean cutting them up or putting them beyond future use
As for 'what's the point', if they have any brains at all it'll be marketed as a gentleman's series where the likes of Chris James and Andy Neate can drive a reasonably modern tin-top without being exposed as a total Billy by the pro drivers in works developed cars. Not everyone wants to be on TV, and not everyone is trying to 'climb the ladder' - in fact it's these two points which have made Clios so expensive. A genuine clubman's series in BTCC machinery could work well for drivers with budget who just want to have fun while they're racing in my view.
Yeah, the cars are now obsolete and there aren't many series where you can run a RWD Audi A4 with non standard subframes and suspension, or a Proton Gen-2 with a Vauxhall based turbo engine. NGTC hasn't taken off outside the UK in the way the organisers wanted it to so it's not like S2000 where the cars all went off to race in another country once they became uncompetitive in BTCC.
jamiebae said:
As for 'what's the point', if they have any brains at all it'll be marketed as a gentleman's series where the likes of Chris James and Andy Neate can drive a reasonably modern tin-top without being exposed as a total Billy by the pro drivers in works developed cars. Not everyone wants to be on TV, and not everyone is trying to 'climb the ladder' - in fact it's these two points which have made Clios so expensive. A genuine clubman's series in BTCC machinery could work well for drivers with budget who just want to have fun while they're racing in my view.
Autosport article said:
A new club-level feeder series for the British Touring Car Championship is being launched by BTCC teams for 2016.
The B-TEC Development Series will run at six national meetings and incorporate 12 races, beginning at Brands Hatch on March 27/28.
BTCC NGTC cars running the previous specification GPRM control parts will be eligible, as the main series moves to RML components this year.
The winner will receive a test in a 2016 BTCC machine.
Prime mover behind the series is Triple Eight Racing boss Ian Harrison.
"There are cars out there that are eligible to compete, and we think we can have up to 12 for the initial season," he said.
"We are deliberately running at club meetings to make this a cost effective category. The budgets for the 12 races should be under the £100,000 mark.
"It will be a great way for drivers to get experience of a modern BTCC car, and it will also provide a useful stepping stone for teams, engineers and mechanics too.
"They will have a chance to sample the cars and the level of competition required before maybe stepping up into the main series."
So, not at all how it is being marketed / targeted.The B-TEC Development Series will run at six national meetings and incorporate 12 races, beginning at Brands Hatch on March 27/28.
BTCC NGTC cars running the previous specification GPRM control parts will be eligible, as the main series moves to RML components this year.
The winner will receive a test in a 2016 BTCC machine.
Prime mover behind the series is Triple Eight Racing boss Ian Harrison.
"There are cars out there that are eligible to compete, and we think we can have up to 12 for the initial season," he said.
"We are deliberately running at club meetings to make this a cost effective category. The budgets for the 12 races should be under the £100,000 mark.
"It will be a great way for drivers to get experience of a modern BTCC car, and it will also provide a useful stepping stone for teams, engineers and mechanics too.
"They will have a chance to sample the cars and the level of competition required before maybe stepping up into the main series."
emicen said:
So, not at all how it is being marketed / targeted.
I'm not so sure actually. They aren't going to go out and openly say 'this series is for drivers with more money than talent' but the implication of the decision to run it at a few 'clubman's' events, as well as avoiding Knockhill (too far to travel for a weekend for many) suggest that is the idea. Clio Cup is still going to be a better place to stand out and get noticed as a great driver, and it's also more likely to get you noticed by sponsors.I'm sure some drivers will indeed use it to take a step into BTCC, but they'll be more like Derek Palmer and Nick Foster than Alex MacDowall or Tom Onslow-Cole.
As a sponsor I don't see the appeal of B-TEC, but as a driver without any ambition to turn pro it sounds more interesting than Clios.
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