Bring back F5000
Discussion
People seem to have been saying for a while that there is a lack of a "cheap" (its all relative) but still top-level formula of single-seater competition.
Why does someone not bring back F5000? Take some previous or pre-previous year F1 chassis, and install the powertrain from a Nascar (900bhp 5.7 V8). Complete the job with some fatter tyres, and pit the results against the current F1 cars in a few races of the F1 calendar. Fulfill the season by holding more races purely for F5k cars.
It would be exciting to see a return to the days of the Yank-powered bruisers storming away down the straights while the lighter, better handling F1 cars swarm them in the corners.
What do we think? Good idea or a championship best left in the history books?
Why does someone not bring back F5000? Take some previous or pre-previous year F1 chassis, and install the powertrain from a Nascar (900bhp 5.7 V8). Complete the job with some fatter tyres, and pit the results against the current F1 cars in a few races of the F1 calendar. Fulfill the season by holding more races purely for F5k cars.
It would be exciting to see a return to the days of the Yank-powered bruisers storming away down the straights while the lighter, better handling F1 cars swarm them in the corners.
What do we think? Good idea or a championship best left in the history books?
Well what does an F1 engine make these days? 800hp? A Nascar engine makes 900bhp on carbs, with a half-decent injection system it might make 1000. Like the original F5000 cars, they would have a useful bhp advantage but obviously would not be as quick through the corners due to the weight and its distribution
mat777 said:
Well what does an F1 engine make these days? 800hp? A Nascar engine makes 900bhp on carbs, with a half-decent injection system it might make 1000. Like the original F5000 cars, they would have a useful bhp advantage but obviously would not be as quick through the corners due to the weight and its distribution
I think you might be a little out of date.Nascar engines have been running fuel injection for 2 years and make around 900bhp.
Current F1 engines produce around 900bhp
The engine would be about half the weight of a Nascar engine, is much smaller for better aero packaging and much more eficient so would use less fuel (weight again).
You do the math
Edited by touring fan on Saturday 13th April 23:04
In the days of F1 downsizing to 'green' engines a big engine formula f1 equivalent would never happen. Plus to get anywhere remotely close to f1 these days requires much more expensive aero programs than it used to. F5000 was (and still is) fantastic but it was very much of its era, i can't see an equivalent now working or being appealing to manufacturers attempting to look green. The 70's were still a time when a half decent engineer could knock up something vaugely competitive in his garage, that time is long gone. You could have it for privateers and have a spec single chassis but that would make it doomed to failure like A1GP or superleague.
F5000 is alive and well, it may not be full of pro drivers, but hey most of the drivers in 90% of motorsport are only paying thier way into it these days anyway.
F5000 is alive and well, it may not be full of pro drivers, but hey most of the drivers in 90% of motorsport are only paying thier way into it these days anyway.
It was and is a fabulous formula and we are desperately short of big noisy single seaters in UK racing. One of many reasons why I now spend as much time at Historic races as modern ones. Forget comparisons with F1- - frankly who cares? It is the be all and end all to many 'fans' but the actual appeal of cars like 5000s is much more visceral than lap times. They may lap at about F Renault pace-and just like Superbikes they don't do it by being superquick around the twisty bits . Watching a Lola T330 or Chevron B28 smearing the track with rubber as the driver tries to control the power floats my boat.And if you want to see acceleration which would annihilate any F1 careger built just get to Santa Pod- that NOISE!
Re green issues- I am always a bit annoyed about how the sport thinks that if it seems to be making green concessions (as in daft 2014 F1 regs) any green lobbies will welcome it. Which is like saying to a vegetarian that if a burger has less meat in it(horse or otherwise) it's somehow better than a full fat one. The irony is that so many people who profess concern for the enviroment seem to be hopelessly in love with steam engines - whose carbon footprint is enormous. Weird ...
Re green issues- I am always a bit annoyed about how the sport thinks that if it seems to be making green concessions (as in daft 2014 F1 regs) any green lobbies will welcome it. Which is like saying to a vegetarian that if a burger has less meat in it(horse or otherwise) it's somehow better than a full fat one. The irony is that so many people who profess concern for the enviroment seem to be hopelessly in love with steam engines - whose carbon footprint is enormous. Weird ...
Edited by coppice on Sunday 14th April 08:23
Its well documented that the green changes to f1 are insignificant in terms of actual impact (I believe the impact of an entire season of all cars in f1 pales in comparison to the transport required to get the teams to a single long haul race), but the manufacturers do like to been seen as being more green, plus we all know f1 technology does filter down. I don't agree with it but it is what it is.
For the puritan the 'ideal' racing cars will remain those from the past. Luckily they are still regularly racing. I enjoy both modern and historic racing, but as for the cars i am much more excited by witnessing and driving those from the past.
For the puritan the 'ideal' racing cars will remain those from the past. Luckily they are still regularly racing. I enjoy both modern and historic racing, but as for the cars i am much more excited by witnessing and driving those from the past.
touring fan said:
Current F1 engines produce around 900bhp
The engine would be about half the weight of a Nascar engine, is much smaller for better aero packaging and much more eficient so would use less fuel (weight again).
You do the math
Current f1 engine power is hard to get info on, but in 2006 at 19k rpm the toyota was making 740hp, the year after the rev limit was decreased to 18k and engines frozen apart from minor tweaks for reliability or balancing. Realistically they are mid 700s, and due to be 650ish next year. (with more Kers, but imo a push button boost doesn't make up for a lack of hp). Certainly no-one on the grid has been hitting 900 since the early-mid 2000s.The engine would be about half the weight of a Nascar engine, is much smaller for better aero packaging and much more eficient so would use less fuel (weight again).
You do the math
Edited by touring fan on Saturday 13th April 23:04
coppice said:
It was and is a fabulous formula and we are desperately short of big noisy single seaters in UK racing. One of many reasons why I now spend as much time at Historic races as modern ones. Forget comparisons with F1- - frankly who cares? It is the be all and end all to many 'fans' but the actual appeal of cars like 5000s is much more visceral than lap times. They may lap at about F Renault pace-and just like Superbikes they don't do it by being superquick around the twisty bits . Watching a Lola T330 or Chevron B28 smearing the track with rubber as the driver tries to control the power floats my boat.And if you want to see acceleration which would annihilate any F1 careger built just get to Santa Pod- that NOISE!
Re green issues- I am always a bit annoyed about how the sport thinks that if it seems to be making green concessions (as in daft 2014 F1 regs) any green lobbies will welcome it. Which is like saying to a vegetarian that if a burger has less meat in it(horse or otherwise) it's somehow better than a full fat one. The irony is that so many people who profess concern for the enviroment seem to be hopelessly in love with steam engines - whose carbon footprint is enormous. Weird ...
Where would you run them? All UK circuits now have 108db limits for all but top line series. Very often it's 105db. The days of noisy single seaters and the like are gone.Re green issues- I am always a bit annoyed about how the sport thinks that if it seems to be making green concessions (as in daft 2014 F1 regs) any green lobbies will welcome it. Which is like saying to a vegetarian that if a burger has less meat in it(horse or otherwise) it's somehow better than a full fat one. The irony is that so many people who profess concern for the enviroment seem to be hopelessly in love with steam engines - whose carbon footprint is enormous. Weird ...
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 14th April 08:23
It was odd to see the Nissan ELM car testing at Silverstone the other Friday when we were there with our F3 car. Going round the corners at a reasonable pace but half throttle on the straights to keep within the 105db drive by limit.
REALIST123 said:
Where would you run them? All UK circuits now have 108db limits for all but top line series. Very often it's 105db. The days of noisy single seaters and the like are gone.
except F1 and the like are all still running open pipes etc....funny how all the noise limit's and stuff only affect clubman racing....
(bit like CAT's on road based cars unless it's GT or BTCC etc)
Scuffers said:
REALIST123 said:
Where would you run them? All UK circuits now have 108db limits for all but top line series. Very often it's 105db. The days of noisy single seaters and the like are gone.
except F1 and the like are all still running open pipes etc....funny how all the noise limit's and stuff only affect clubman racing....
(bit like CAT's on road based cars unless it's GT or BTCC etc)
Scuffers said:
REALIST123 said:
Yes, as I said, all but the top line series. If the likes of F5000 were brought back they would hardly be that so would need to be silenced.
sorry, that was not a dig at you....The original wide open 3" box (118db) lies unused on the garage shelf...............
REALIST123 said:
Yes, as I said, all but the top line series. If the likes of F5000 were brought back they would hardly be that so would need to be silenced.
But if it was brought back to run alongside F1 on the same grid for half the races in the F1 calendar (following the ethos of the original F5k) then it wouldn't need restricting REALIST123 said:
Where would you run them? All UK circuits now have 108db limits for all but top line series. Very often it's 105db. The days of noisy single seaters and the like are gone.
Well f5000 have raced at Croft, Don and Snet silenced (But certainly still over 108) and Silverstone, Brands and Oulton Park unsilenced in the last couple of years.I know - nowhere to run them really. And although a 5 litre V8 still sounds fine it doesn't make the ground shake any more. Same with hillclimb cars- I used to satrline marsahl with DFVs and big V8s -God they were noisy. One of the reasons I have lost quite a lot of my hearing the hospital told me. Deep Purple live possibly helped too...
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff